My point, which you obviously missed, is that those law are not bound by time and space. They existed before Newton discovered them and wrote them down for later minds such as Einstein to build upon.Yeah, and I am sure that Einstein did not understand those three laws, and have the ability to see that they fell apart at higher speeds and have a new set of tools to figure out more accurate ways to figure it out.
See where I am going with this.
So you have an inalienable right not to buy health insurance, huh...? Or are you saying this is something that should be regulated by states. Because you can't have it both ways. If it's an inalienable right then the MA state government has no power to mandate health insurance either, right?My point, which you obviously missed, is that those law are not bound by time and space. They existed before Newton discovered them and wrote them down for later minds such as Einstein to build upon.
The inalienable rights enumerated in the Constitution are timeless as well. History had to unfold the way it did in order for them to coalesce in 1787 into a document that changed the world.
Today you benefit from the rights set forth in that document you so blithely dismiss.
Health insurance is not an inalienable right either way. And I do not recall stating that it was. Your attempt to muddle up the argument notwithstanding.So you have an inalienable right not to buy health insurance, huh...? Or are you saying this is something that should be regulated by states. Because you can't have it both ways. If it's an inalienable right then the MA state government has no power to mandate health insurance either, right?
With all due respect: Med-'O-Mao, you ignorant slut! Hitler was the head of the German National Socialist Party. In order to get someone (slightly) to the right of Hitler, you'd have to run Rahm Emmanuel ... or rerun Obama.Pawlenty, are you serious? He has more gaffs than Joe Biden. Brown would be a much better choice, but I think the geniuses in the teabaggers are going to want someone right of Hitler, like Rush, or Palin, good luck with that scenario. Maybe it could work though, after all, those same idiots elected Dubya for a second term. All this wont affect me much, I'm not in the job market, thank God, I've got all of my "stuff" paid for, have lots of guns and ammo, and live at the end of a cul-de-sac, good for defending my position. Let the good times roll.
I wasn't trying to muddle anything up, I just wanted to understand exactly what about individual mandates for healthcare is unconstitutional.... whether it was because someone is forcing you to buy something or whether you object to that someone being the federal government.Health insurance is not an inalienable right either way. And I do not recall stating that it was. Your attempt to muddle up the argument notwithstanding.
I am saying that the federal government has no authority to determine if I have health insurance or not.
If I live in a state that mandates health insurance and I disagree, nothing keeps me from leaving that state and moving to a state more conducive to my beliefs in that regard.
The 10th Amendment says I can have it both ways.
Wow, talk about brick houses....With all due respect: Med-'O-Mao, you ignorant slut! Hitler was the head of the German National Socialist Party. In order to get someone (slightly) to the right of Hitler, you'd have to run Rahm Emmanuel ... or rerun Obama.
The Second Amendment takes care of that. The Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms so no, state law could not supersede it per the 10th Amendment.I wasn't trying to muddle anything up, I just wanted to understand exactly what about individual mandates for healthcare is unconstitutional.... whether it was because someone is forcing you to buy something or whether you object to that someone being the federal government.
If the tenth amendment gives your state the decision over whether or not to mandate health insurance, wouldn't you say that mine should have the right to ban certain types of firearms, say handguns for instance?
Oh so by saying that maybe laws existed, but they were not as well understood as they are today, I somehow did not explain that I am saying shit changes how we have to view things as we learn more about them?Quote:My point, which you obviously missed, is that those law are not bound by time and space. They existed before Newton discovered them and wrote them down for later minds such as Einstein to build upon.
The inalienable rights enumerated in the Constitution are timeless as well. History had to unfold the way it did in order for them to coalesce in 1787 into a document that changed the world.
Today you benefit from the rights set forth in that document you so blithely dismiss.
Where did I compare anyone based upon religion or race? I was trying to point out that Hitler was not a man of the Right, but a man of the Left ... the leader of the German National SOCIALIST Party. His fascist economic policies were not unlike those of the Obama administration ... or Wilson, or FDR for that matter. The Progressive movement is over 100 years old in this country and their policies have always led to more government interference in our lives ... and account for a huge loss in both economic and political liberty. They have given us our funny-money (the FED), the progressive income tax ... and the feared IRS that came along with it. A good example of the way they do things would be in their latest health care proposal, whereby citizens would be FORCED to buy insurance ... at the point of a gun if necessary.Wow, talk about brick houses....
Even ignoring the fact that you're comparing a jew and a black man to hitler, that comment was pretty fucking stupid.
Inalienable rights are as real as the Three Laws of Motion. Rights must be defended or they might as well not exist.Oh so by saying that maybe laws existed, but they were not as well understood as they are today, I somehow did not explain that I am saying shit changes how we have to view things as we learn more about them?
The ingredients for mydol have always been around, and the same can be true of PMS. So just because they used to believe that drowning would stop it (which it actually would) we should not use the mydol, because they came up with a different idea first?
If we found a way to fix all hunger, poverty, and violence that allowed everyone to live a very full and productive life, but it broke one of the rules of the constitution then we would not be allowed to do it because of that. And we could also then not do things that would improve them, I say screw that we need to keep evolving and building, and developing new and better ways to do things.
And inaliable rights is a great idea, but it is not something that is real. think about all the murder, and mayhem that goes on in the world, how can people think that we have a right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness, we have to work damn hard for that, and get lucky at times. That is as far from a natural law of existence as you can get.
Haha, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. If anything 3) might be closest though...The Second Amendment takes care of that. The Constitution guarantees the right to keep and bear arms so no, state law could not supersede it per the 10th Amendment.
Abe, I know you are not dense. The way this discussion is going suggests three possibilities:
1) You are not Abe23. You are someone currently on his userid.
2) You are trying to rattle me by expecting me to explain elementary Constitutional principles.
3) You are going through this exercise as a means to elucidate. Explanation by way of discussion.
I choose to believe option three, but I have been wrong before.
I do think bringing the nazis into a discussion about healthcare is stupid, but I don't think that you are either.Where did I compare anyone based upon religion or race? I was trying to point out that Hitler was not a man of the Right, but a man of the Left ... the leader of the German National SOCIALIST Party. His fascist economic policies were not unlike those of the Obama administration ... or Wilson, or FDR for that matter. The Progressive movement is over 100 years old in this country and their policies have always led to more government interference in our lives ... and account for a huge loss in both economic and political liberty. They have given us our funny-money (the FED), the progressive income tax ... and the feared IRS that came along with it. A good example of the way they do things would be in their latest health care proposal, whereby citizens would be FORCED to buy insurance ... at the point of a gun if necessary.
Nope, it is not I that is stupid ... and I don't believe that you are either. However, I do think you may be stone-blind to the truth about the Progressive movement and Hitler's fascist economic policies.
I'll stick with option three, too.Haha, I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from. If anything 3) might be closest though...
I just find your interpretation of the constitution a bit rigid at times. Remember that a lot of these issues - not healthcare specifically, but states vs federal rights - have been discussed since the country was founded. And these discussions are far from settled...
As is the point about gun laws. The second amendment hardly specifies what kind of gun you are allowed to own, just that you have a right to bear arms. It says nothing about your right to own a full auto ak or a 44. magnum specifically. So if my state decides that they want to ban a certain category of firearms, while preserving their right to own another, that doesn't strike me as unconstitutional.
In the end, I think we all interpret the constitution based on our outlook, political and historical. I for one happen to think that it's my constitutional right to pursue happiness by growing and smoking a certain herb or that it's unconstitutional to torture anyone under any circumstances. A lot of people will disagree with me...
I never called you closed minded.From my point of view you wish to go back to the model t.
The constitution was and is great, but to put it up with the laws of motion, is a reach.
Yes Einstein was on the shoulders of greats, and that is why he was able to make such amazing discoveries. And scientists today are still pushing the envelope.
I am not worried about utopia, but for better and worse the constitution has been altered over the years through amendments, and all the other stuff I am sure someone can go into. And to dismiss all the innovation, and work that we as a society have pushed for over the centuries and just call everything unconstitutional if it doesn't work exactly as the original doc said it should, is to use our favorite saying, tossing a woman into a lake instead of giving her mydol.
Just like to say we don't have fat we can trim on all the laws ect that have been passed is equally closed minded.
Why do you guys say things that make me come in here and drop knowledge on you?Where did I compare anyone based upon religion or race? I was trying to point out that Hitler was not a man of the Right, but a man of the Left ... the leader of the German National SOCIALIST Party. His fascist economic policies were not unlike those of the Obama administration ..
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beyond stupid. and absolutely no clue of how business works. we could educate you buy you wouldnt listen.So your saying that when you get more customers wanting your product, you won't sell it to them because you are afraid?
And if the demand for your product is more than you can produce because of shortage of employees, you would not hire?
If that is the case because you are paralyzed with fear, I would love to own your competition.
Dude, there is no point, although Jonny and I disagree (I don't feel that back when we used to shit outdoors was the best time to have all the laws of the land forever put in place, and we don't have better insight now), I am sure he will have about 15 constitutional reasons why if you revoke this unconstitutional amendment, this is different somehow.
I mean some of the shit they pull out of the 1700's is amazing! And just wait for Vi to pull out some old school constitutional jargon, it gets fun!
It is better just to stick to provable facts and logic here, and keep double checking what your saying, because they will try to confuse you with links, quotes, and 'news' that is taking everything out of context and wrong if you don't double check it.
So don't ask unless you are going to bust your ass looking it all up and dissecting what is wrong with it. Just my 2 cents.