Any updates on MMJ and Guns

ProdigalSun said:

I dont smoke, and I have a card.

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I was trying to say, the card it's self dont incriminate you. useing weed is what incriminates you

medical/420 said:

I was trying to say, the card it's self dont incriminate you. using weed is what incriminates you

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The BATFE seems to think so. Bureau of All Things Fun and Exciting.

The BATFE has released a memo saying that medipot holders aren't allowed to have guns because they believe that it means you are an unlawful user. Truth is, it's a MEMO, not a law. Having a card might give probable cause to search you, ie urinalysis, and if you fail, then it's whatever, but it cannot prohibit you from owning a firearm.

It is against the tenth amendment for a federal agency to attempt to regulate medical marijuana or its patients and their rights.

I hope that decision is held up in a court of law. These days I'm not so sure our govt and court system feel like they need to follow the laws. They sure as hell haven't respected the voters decisions. Or the will of the people.

Damn right. Unfortunately the way our system is currently functioning, a person will have to be charged, then fight it out in court. All too often the person cant afford the defense, or they take a plea offered by a prosecution who for whatever reason, didn't want the case in the higher courts or knew they would flat out lose.

Justice?

Its the just us system, not the justice system.

I hear that...they know that most people can't afford to take a case to the Supreme Court system that cost thousands of dollars

I really expected a bunch of NRA members with med card to flip the fuck out and fix this quick. I'm actually quite surprised, I know people love there guns!

Unfortunately, many NRA members still carry the old school foolish naive bias against marijuana smokers that the propaganda machine has manufactured. Ironic really, as the gun owner and the pot smoker share almost the identical social and legal challenges.

I have been around gun forums a lot the last few years, and they are coming around.

Take a look at this series, it's pretty awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICWQ6AGWb_M

Funny I discussed this with my wife the other dayand thought about making a thread!
really my thought was in Colorado any adult over 21 can possess or grow marijuana, I have a red card and I cant own a firearm, what is the laws pertaining to regular adult citizens vs red card? I am not sure if it is clear! Legal patients can't own a firearm but every other adult in Colorado that want to smoke marijuana or grow and buy firearms, have no stipulations? Is there a solid answer here?

I dont know

Here's an interesting quirk in Michigan law.

If you do not have a concealed pistol license, and you want your gun with you, it must be transported in a gun case, unloaded and in the trunk.

If you have a med card, and want to bring your pot with you, it has to be in a locked case in the trunk.

Why the Fuc* do you have to put a lock on a case for your pot, but you do NOT have to put a lock on a gun?

I know that usually the magazine has to be away from the gun, so it would be useless without it and a lock wouldn't matter anyway! But it's all bullshit!

I wish this was for sale. For now I use bear mace to protect the house.
I think you could do pretty good in some situations vs a guy with a gun.

[video=youtube;OTrdosB82Fs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTrdosB82Fs[/video]

That's funny

Is their any cases we can use for reference showing what happens to a person if there is mmj in their home and they have a registered firearm? I can't find any...I did see that the Supreme Court refused to hear the cops side in why they denied a cpl to a lady in CO? So doesn't that mean we are on the right path here?

Isn't it also true that Leo doesn't have access to the mmj registry unless they hold your card in their hand...also I have been told that LEIN cannot acces the mmj registry....is this true? Or have I heard misinformation?

DaleRoberts said:

Is their any cases we can use for reference showing what happens to a person if there is mmj in their home and they have a registered firearm? I can't find any...I did see that the Supreme Court refused to hear the cops side in why they denied a cpl to a lady in CO? So doesn't that mean we are on the right path here?

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None that I am aware of. Perhaps anyone that has been charged in the district courts have accepted a plea? It would have to clear appeals to become case law.

DaleRoberts said:

Isn't it also true that Leo doesn't have access to the mmj registry unless they hold your card in their hand...also I have been told that LEIN cannot acces the mmj registry....is this true? Or have I heard misinformation?

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Cops do not have access to the registry without the card. If the cop however, sees, smells, or otherwise gets probable cause to search, you are naturally going to give him your card as required by law to avoid being charged with what is lawfully yours to posses. The HIPPA laws would protect the doctor patient relationship from LEIN, but it's more complicated than that. Cops would know about the card and your legal pot by your affirmation, their search (illegal or otherwise), or by plainview, at which point it has been proven that no crime had been committed. An officer is not supposed to use LEIN unless a crime is afoot. They could not legally just do a random LEIN search on an individual. It is a misdemeanor first offense for an officer to do so, and a felony for them to use LEIN illegally a second time. Unfortunately, they do it all the time, and it is almost impossible to get them charged with it. Their use of LEIN could be found through FOIA by you, or in discovery by a lawyer and could then be charged if you can find a lawyer willing to do a (I think it's called a title 42, 1983 deprivation of rights) (???) federal charge against the officer. Some of this stuff admittedly is getting over my head, but due to my involvement with the courts and police over my open carry activities, and time on the gun forums, I have picked up a few things along the way. Trouble is, if you go after the police, they are going to get back at you through harassment at the local level, and will very likely forward your case to the federal authorities knowing that pot is still illegal at that level.

To protect and serve....

After looking at this whole Cpl issue...the only thing I see as being a problem at some point is this.

So let's say you were driving and got pulled over with mmj in the car. The cop would come up as a routine traffic stop goes and you'd hand them your CPL and your Drivers License. My thoughts here are right away you are one of the good guys. I say that because you having a CPL means you are obviously not a convict or criminal. So you tell the cop "I don't have my gun on me but here my info". Right there the cop has really no reason to search you for mmj. If he wanted to search you it would be most likely a set up type situation.

Now if he can't see you have a mmj card and there's no reason to think youd have pot on you. What's the worry?

i would never have bud on me and a gun.

You have to tell them u have a CPL if you don't they'll know as soon as they run your dl #.

Only problem I see is if the cop went through your shit and found your mmj card. Of if they smelled weed in the car and saw your cpl. Then when they tried to bust you you said "wait...i have my mmj card please don't arrest me!"


Then the cop would be like "oh you have both huh?" That there could be a problem lol.

Even then. I don't know that the Feds will get involved.

DaleRoberts said:

After looking at this whole Cpl issue...the only thing I see as being a problem at some point is this.

So let's say you were driving and got pulled over with mmj in the car. The cop would come up as a routine traffic stop goes and you'd hand them your CPL and your Drivers License. My thoughts here are right away you are one of the good guys. I say that because you having a CPL means you are obviously not a convict or criminal. So you tell the cop "I don't have my gun on me but here my info". Right there the cop has really no reason to search you for mmj. If he wanted to search you it would be most likely a set up type situation.

Now if he can't see you have a mmj card and there's no reason to think youd have pot on you. What's the worry?

i would never have bud on me and a gun.

You have to tell them u have a CPL if you don't they'll know as soon as they run your dl #.

Only problem I see is if the cop went through your shit and found your mmj card. Of if they smelled weed in the car and saw your cpl. Then when they tried to bust you you said "wait...i have my mmj card please don't arrest me!"


Then the cop would be like "oh you have both huh?" That there could be a problem lol.

Even then. I don't know that the Feds will get involved.

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If you get pulled over, the cop does know that you have a CPL from your plate. You have a duty to disclose ONLY if you are carrying. MCL 28.425f (cite below) If he asks, tell him you are unarmed. There is no cause for search. 333.26426 (g) (cite below) Also, having a MMJ card is not probable cause for a search. If they ask, you tell them that you do not consent to searches or seizures. If they search, then nothing can be used against you, and any charges have to be dropped. According to MCL 333.26424, (cite below), you do not lose any right or privelige for posessing the card, or your bud. It is legal to have both. You should never leave home without your gun. The CPL statute does prohibit intoxication while operating under the authority of your CPL. MCL 28.425k (cite below).

28.425f http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(a2whhlz2sarq2iysbqau1d45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-28-425f&query=on&highlight=disclose AND weapon

333.26426 (g) http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(3lowsj45ezvrc245wdmmvy55))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-333-26426-amended&query=on

333.26424 http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2bjpntftrm5hho5523fuodvm))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-333-26424-amended&query=on

28.425f http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(a2whhlz2sarq2iysbqau1d45))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectname=mcl-28-425f&query=on&highlight=disclose AND weapon

BTW, new law says to have your pot in the trunk.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wg3mdk55o3ozeq55nk2noimr))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-750-474

So you think it's ok to have both a CPL and a mmj card? I seem to think its a grey area but the mmj laws do say no loss of rights or privileges. However there is the question on the app about being an illegal user you have to lie on.

I've heard after a cpl holder shoots an attacker he is detained but not blood tested unless police feel you are visibly impaired. Is this true?

also you can be intoxicated in your own home and use a gun if you had to protect your life without fear of charges right?