Are there any religious tokers out there?

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
In the book of John; someone compliments the wine Jesus makes. The compliment one person at the party gives is essentially what GG paraphrased there. There is a valid point there; that wedding party does condone drinking to the point of at least some intoxication. The rules of intoxication aren't the big issue in the bible though; the rape, forced marriage, and slavery that is condoned; is much more concerning.
Can you give me the verse please? Also, just because someone compliments the wine... does not mean that they have become intoxicated off of it.

There are countless verses from the bible renouncing intoxication as a sin.

Please, familiarize yourself with your faith if you wish to be a true follower of a certain religion. But like i said before, Christians usually take the parts out of the bible that they like, and ignore the rest, in order to justify their behavior in the eyes of the lord. But the lord sees and knows all, you cannot fool him.

Thessalonians 5:6-8 - Being sober is the opposite of being drunk and is associated with being alert and watchful.

Peter 1:13-17 - Be sober, gird up the loins of your mind so you can avoid lusts and be obedient and holy. This requires being alert.

Peter 5:8,9 - Be sober so we can be on guard for the devil, resist him, and not be devoured by him. Realizing how dangerous Satan is, we should keep our minds clear so we can recognize his deceit and resist his temptations.

Corinthians 9:25-27 - Bring our bodies into subjection to our minds, exercising temperance (self-control) like athletes in training, so our bodies will be properly guided by our minds.

Proverbs 4:23 - Keep your heart (mind) with all diligence because it must decide the issues of life.

Struggling against evil is difficult and dangerous at best, even with the clearest of faculties. That is why God has forbidden intoxication. There are other ways to violate these principles, but drug abuse is surely one way.

If you consider yourself a Christian, and you get intoxicated in any way... repent, discontinue the behavior, or you are going to hell. This is all in literal reference to what is considered one of the holiest texts in the world, the bible.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
< &#8220;There is something feeble and a little contemptible about a man who cannot face the perils of life without the help of comfortable myths. Almost inevitably some part of him is aware that they are myths and that he believes them only because they are comforting. But he dare not face this thought! Moreover, since he is aware, however dimly, that his opinions are not rational, he becomes furious when they are disputed.&#8221;
 
Not trying to be flippant but my sr thesis was on the TWO churches in the New Testament, so honestly man it's not that serious when it comes to being right or proving a point to me.

Secondly, sober means a lot of different things and its context give way to its usage at a particular time. Most of the translations from Greek into English are BEST fit word, since English is such a inconsistent language.

So you can quote bible verses until you are blue in the face, but if your basis is on a written manuscript (doctored btw) and not based around your logikos, you are not better than the Pharisees that Jesus detested.

Now you can take what I said above and absorb it, or you can go back to being a rambling wreck.

&#8220;The weapon of criticism cannot in any case replace the criticism of weapons, material force must be overthrown by material force, but theory too becomes a material force as soon as it grasps weapons. Theory is capable of grasping weapons as soon as its argument becomes ad hommine, and its argument becomes ad hominem as soon as it becomes radical&#8221;


Excerpt From: Marx, Karl. &#8220;Selected Essays.&#8221; iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
God doesn't care what context you personally give the bible, he doesn't care how you subjectively interpret the meanings of the verses. The only thing he cares about is your obedience. The words mean exactly what they say.

If you don't fallow the words of the bible, and instead twist them into your own desired meaning... then you aren't a Christian and shouldn't deem to be labeled as such. /shrug
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
God doesn't care what context you personally give the bible, he doesn't care how you subjectively interpret the meanings of the verses. The only thing he cares about is your obedience. The words mean exactly what they say.

If you don't fallow the words of the bible, and instead twist them into your own desired meaning... then you aren't a Christian and shouldn't deem to be labeled as such. /shrug
sadly most do not even get what youre saying. any criticism of their (or any) sect's lack of adherence to any of the established commands laid out in a book they claim is divinely inspired is treated as heresy and apostasy.

next you will be described as an agent of the devil, or a wicked sinner who wishes others to be damned with him in hell for all eternity... lake of fire... brimstone... burning flesh... torment by demons... anally raped by Satan... etc etc etc...

In Their All-Forgiving God's Beneficent Mercy.

 
Youre absolutely right. God doesn't care, there wasn't a bible that people carried around. Thats a modern, actually Martin Luther concept. So where did he speak to people, those who were directly in-tuned with him he spoke to their hearts. People he wasn't in tuned with he ignored (plenty of examples of that) and they could only get his attention through sacrifice of some sort. Until... yada yada yada.

Now fast forward, as Simon spoke to the eunuch, do you understand what you are reading. He didnt, and so do so many "CHRISTIANS". Now fast forward again, we have all these different sects of religion, all these denominations. Each saying they are right and everyone else is going to hell, amazing how many Christians are not like Christ.

Heck, you talking about being sober, using the term in the simplest form possible (even Webster gives you I think 5 different ways the term is used), and when I give you the passage you can reference, you too busy in your ideology to even review it and understand it for yourself.

This is where it falls to the more astute individual, to back away from the conversation.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Astral projection= lucid dream... comon man, thought you would have figured that out by now.
Lucid dream = lesser form or astral projection. We had this discussion before, you stopped participating when some dude found a pack of smokes in his house that his mom forgot about (She quit years ago), which I know is not convincing enough. Theres still countless of other stories where people go from a conscious state to an astral state and explore the world and check up on their friends and be correct to the exact detail when describing what their friends were doing. Friends even meet up in the astral world. Shouldnt disregard those stories just because of the negative results you've experienced while lucid dreaming.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Youre absolutely right. God doesn't care, there wasn't a bible that people carried around. Thats a modern, actually Martin Luther concept. So where did he speak to people, those who were directly in-tuned with him he spoke to their hearts. People he wasn't in tuned with he ignored (plenty of examples of that) and they could only get his attention through sacrifice of some sort. Until... yada yada yada.

Now fast forward, as Simon spoke to the eunuch, do you understand what you are reading. He didnt, and so do so many "CHRISTIANS". Now fast forward again, we have all these different sects of religion, all these denominations. Each saying they are right and everyone else is going to hell, amazing how many Christians are not like Christ.

Heck, you talking about being sober, using the term in the simplest form possible (even Webster gives you I think 5 different ways the term is used), and when I give you the passage you can reference, you too busy in your ideology to even review it and understand it for yourself.

This is where it falls to the more astute individual, to back away from the conversation.
It's your soul... /shrug
 
Your soul too. Misunderstanding isn't an excuse for not knowing. Your elementary understanding of a basic word such as "sober" has placed you in the middle of a debate & on the wrong side of it.

a : sparing in the use of food and drink : abstemious
b : not addicted to intoxicating drink
c : not drunk
2
: marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor

3
: unhurried, calm

4
: marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness <a sober candlelight vigil>

5
: subdued in tone or color

6
: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice

Yawn....
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Lucid dream = lesser form or astral projection. We had this discussion before, you stopped participating when some dude found a pack of smokes in his house that his mom forgot about (She quit years ago), which I know is not convincing enough. Theres still countless of other stories where people go from a conscious state to an astral state and explore the world and check up on their friends and be correct to the exact detail when describing what their friends were doing. Friends even meet up in the astral world. Shouldnt disregard those stories just because of the negative results you've experienced while lucid dreaming.
Key word, stories. Though there is nothing i can do to prove to you that these are merely dreams, experiences within the dream realm, within the constructs and boundaries of our mind. Don't get me wrong, i think astral projection is a super neat idea and it would be super awesome if it were true, yet i stand unconvinced... i don't form my opinions on hearsay and others convictions, i must experience it for myself in order to make a judgement.

I don't put the concept and possibility of astral projection out of my mind, the same as i don't put the concept and possibility of a god or architect out of my mind. The only thing i have ever heard anyone say in defense to having these experiences while i don't, regardless of my attempts to do so, is that they are "special", "gifted", "tuned into the right frequency". As such, why wouldn't we all be able to tap into this so called hidden power? I'm just not doing it right they say. They will make up any excuse they need to. In my opinion, i think they need to feel special, to feel different, they want it so badly they pretend that these experiences are really happening, and attempt to convince others that it can happen too if they try hard enough in order to convince themselves it works even more.

But you can believe anything if you try hard enough. I remain unconvinced... because i can entertain a thought without forming a belief around it.

Your soul too. Misunderstanding isn't an excuse for not knowing. Your elementary understanding of a basic word such as "sober" has placed you in the middle of a debate & on the wrong side of it.
Justify getting intoxicated any way you want. But if you believe in the Christian doctrine, want to be labeled a Christian and you don't want your soul to be damned... i would think twice before getting drunk or high. It's funny how far Christians will go to justify going against the words of the bible in order to fulfill their desires.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Can you give me the verse please? Also, just because someone compliments the wine... does not mean that they have become intoxicated off of it.

There are countless verses from the bible renouncing intoxication as a sin.

Please, familiarize yourself with your faith if you wish to be a true follower of a certain religion. But like i said before, Christians usually take the parts out of the bible that they like, and ignore the rest, in order to justify their behavior in the eyes of the lord. But the lord sees and knows all, you cannot fool him.

Thessalonians 5:6-8 - Being sober is the opposite of being drunk and is associated with being alert and watchful.

Peter 1:13-17 - Be sober, gird up the loins of your mind so you can avoid lusts and be obedient and holy. This requires being alert.

Peter 5:8,9 - Be sober so we can be on guard for the devil, resist him, and not be devoured by him. Realizing how dangerous Satan is, we should keep our minds clear so we can recognize his deceit and resist his temptations.

Corinthians 9:25-27 - Bring our bodies into subjection to our minds, exercising temperance (self-control) like athletes in training, so our bodies will be properly guided by our minds.

Proverbs 4:23 - Keep your heart (mind) with all diligence because it must decide the issues of life.

Struggling against evil is difficult and dangerous at best, even with the clearest of faculties. That is why God has forbidden intoxication. There are other ways to violate these principles, but drug abuse is surely one way.

If you consider yourself a Christian, and you get intoxicated in any way... repent, discontinue the behavior, or you are going to hell. This is all in literal reference to what is considered one of the holiest texts in the world, the bible.
It's in john chapter 2. Like I said, he says that the good wine comes out after people have been drinking for a while. It's pretty obviously about drinking when you read it. Either way though, sobriety is generally encouraged in the bible. Just because I acknowledge a fair point on the other side of the fence, doesn't make it "my faith" for the record. I just had to read the bible ALOT as a kid. The whole exercise of Christianity is so full of contradictions and shenanigans it's ridiculous. Compared to the laws about rape (Deut. 22:28-29), selling your daughter into sex-slavery (Exodus 21:7-11), and other horrible acts; I never got around to taking issue with intoxication rules in there. According to the bible, they are supposed to strike you down with a sword for preaching against their god; how many are? It's an exercise in futility sir; you're just going to get the runaround.
 

kpmarine

Well-Known Member
Your soul too. Misunderstanding isn't an excuse for not knowing. Your elementary understanding of a basic word such as "sober" has placed you in the middle of a debate & on the wrong side of it.

a : sparing in the use of food and drink : abstemious
b : not addicted to intoxicating drink
c : not drunk
2
: marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor

3
: unhurried, calm

4
: marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness <a sober candlelight vigil>

5
: subdued in tone or color

6
: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice

Yawn....
How about slavery? Is that a kind other than what we are familiar with? In the bible, I am permitted to beat my slaves (Provided they don't die immediately.), and I can sell my daughter as a sex slave. What about the laws that say if I rape a woman who is not engaged It's a fine and she is forced to marry me FOREVER; with no recourse for her. Do you also say we misunderstand rape? There's a lot of deeper and more troubling human rights issues there.

To your actual post; you can't be intoxicated and be sober. Even if you ignore the definition that would be "not intoxicated", you can't be intoxicated and be any of the relevant definitions simultaneously.
 

dannyboy602

Well-Known Member
It is a sin to become intoxicated from any substance in the bible... take it or leave it. But most people just ignore the parts about the bible that they don't like in order to justify their own behaviors. Either way, it is your decision.
yeah zaehet, that's the old testament. in the new testament we can get away with all kinds of shit. like gay marraige, skipping church except christmas and easter and my favorite one, dine and dash...it actually says that in the bible "dine and dash". i was flabbergasted.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Lucid dream = lesser form or astral projection. We had this discussion before, you stopped participating when some dude found a pack of smokes in his house that his mom forgot about (She quit years ago), which I know is not convincing enough. Theres still countless of other stories where people go from a conscious state to an astral state and explore the world and check up on their friends and be correct to the exact detail when describing what their friends were doing. Friends even meet up in the astral world. Shouldnt disregard those stories just because of the negative results you've experienced while lucid dreaming.
"Lucid Dreaming" is what we used to call "Imagination Land" or "Daydreams" or "Fantasy".

theres countless STORIES about a lot of things.

that doesnt mean Hobbits are real, or that luke skywalker really existed long long ago in a galaxy far far away.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Your soul too. Misunderstanding isn't an excuse for not knowing. Your elementary understanding of a basic word such as "sober" has placed you in the middle of a debate & on the wrong side of it.

a : sparing in the use of food and drink : abstemious
b : not addicted to intoxicating drink
c : not drunk
2
: marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor

3
: unhurried, calm

4
: marked by temperance, moderation, or seriousness <a sober candlelight vigil>

5
: subdued in tone or color

6
: showing no excessive or extreme qualities of fancy, emotion, or prejudice

Yawn....
funny... i was "sober" in the sense that i didnt not drink liquor, nor did i smoke tobacco, nor did i partake of wine, nor did i indulge in recreational pharmaceuticals, nor did i engage in the smoking of "Marijuanas".

i was also a surprisingly devout christian, of the mormon persuasion, though few who know me today would believe it.

then i met a red haired girl who stole my heart and introduced me to all the "sins" i had been avoiding based upon the claims of persons who spoke not at all different from yourself.
always with the condescending attitude, and a "Thou be not as learned as myself!" exhortation to accept your pronouncements or burn in a lake of fire.

now i wish i had broken away from the dogmatic religions of the phariseees long before.

if you wish to stay in chains to a book crafted entirely of bullshit, then do feel free to embrace the bible. but proclaiming your way to be the ONLY way is not just insulting, but ridiculous.

the way you describe is not the only way to salvation, enlightenment, heaven, or whatever you wish to believe, I suspect it's not even A way to anything but a self-righteous attitude and a TV ministry.
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
Key word, stories. Though there is nothing i can do to prove to you that these are merely dreams, experiences within the dream realm, within the constructs and boundaries of our mind. Don't get me wrong, i think astral projection is a super neat idea and it would be super awesome if it were true, yet i stand unconvinced... i don't form my opinions on hearsay and others convictions, i must experience it for myself in order to make a judgement.

I don't put the concept and possibility of astral projection out of my mind, the same as i don't put the concept and possibility of a god or architect out of my mind. The only thing i have ever heard anyone say in defense to having these experiences while i don't, regardless of my attempts to do so, is that they are "special", "gifted", "tuned into the right frequency". As such, why wouldn't we all be able to tap into this so called hidden power? I'm just not doing it right they say. They will make up any excuse they need to. In my opinion, i think they need to feel special, to feel different, they want it so badly they pretend that these experiences are really happening, and attempt to convince others that it can happen too if they try hard enough in order to convince themselves it works even more.

But you can believe anything if you try hard enough. I remain unconvinced... because i can entertain a thought without forming a belief around it.



Justify getting intoxicated any way you want. But if you believe in the Christian doctrine, want to be labeled a Christian and you don't want your soul to be damned... i would think twice before getting drunk or high. It's funny how far Christians will go to justify going against the words of the bible in order to fulfill their desires.
Thats not the vibe I get from astral travelers. We all do indeed have the capability to astral project, but just like lucid dreaming, you need a certain mindset to go beyond lucid dreaming and into the astral world that you have much less control in. Also, if you were right about them wanting to be special and different then I dont think astral projection would work for them. Wanting to feel special is all ego, shallow shit, you're stripped of ego in the astral world, much like DMT trips I've heard. Do you not feel special when you express your opinion about self honesty regarding gods and the afterlife? I remember you praising Pad like you two were kings among peasants. I've read that somethings not right at all in your dreams recently and you feel helpless. Perhaps you gotta re-evaluate what you think is wrong and what you think is right.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Thats not the vibe I get from astral travelers. We all do indeed have the capability to astral project, but just like lucid dreaming, you need a certain mindset to go beyond lucid dreaming and into the astral world that you have much less control in. Also, if you were right about them wanting to be special and different then I dont think astral projection would work for them. Wanting to feel special is all ego, shallow shit, you're stripped of ego in the astral world, much like DMT trips I've heard. Do you not feel special when you express your opinion about self honesty regarding gods and the afterlife? I remember you praising Pad like you two were kings among peasants. I've read that somethings not right at all in your dreams recently and you feel helpless. Perhaps you gotta re-evaluate what you think is wrong and what you think is right.
I think, it only works because they think it does. It only works because they want it to work... which results in pretending it does in order to feel special, or unique. Everyone wants to be special, to be accepted, for some people in spiritual or supernatural sects this is one of the scape goats, as well as a common denominator in their way of thinking.

DMT trips? Have you met the machine elves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_elf)... have you felt what it feels like to be a bubble inside of yourself? Have you felt what it feels like to attempt to give meaning to something that you will never be able to understand no matter how hard you try, no matter what your desires are? Have you ever had an awakening, or enlightenment that you experienced... afterword you attempted to define it, only to realize that whatever you define the experience as, will be your own personal interpretation of it, rather than what it really was... an unknowable and unexplainable experience? As you finally realize it is a futile attempt to define the experience, the only way to be honest is to accept the experience as it is; unknowable, undefinable... and unexplainable.

You can define whatever experiences you have as whatever the hell you want them to be... but the reality of the situation is, that just because you subjectively give meaning to an experience... does not make your idea the right one, because your idea may be wrong. Most people don't understand this, most others refuse to. Most people give their own definition and subjective interpretation to their spiritual experiences their own merit, rather than give them the credit they deserve.

Say you know what the fuck reality is? Say you know what happens when you die? You are a liar, regardless of what you may think, you know no more than anyone else in this world... and that is one of the most terrifying aspects of reality anyone can ever accept... most do not.

I am one of the most humble people in existence, for i understand that i do not have the privilege of certainty in this existence. I am no more special than any other human on this planet, than any other animal, or plant. I applaud those who can face their fears, and still find the courage to live life happily without the support of comforting fairy tales and pretend certainties. Pad, among a few others on the SSP forums i can empathize with on a certain level, and yes i do praise their courage in the face of the absurd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism). But that doesn't make anyone of us more special than any other.

We are all different, and we all give meaning and purpose to our lives the best way we can. We all want to be happy, and we all do our best to live life in a way where we experience the least amount of suffering and pain. Some need pretend ideas, some stick to the reality of uncertainty... which is hard, but no better or worse than those who stick to fantasy. I am no judge, but i do encourage people to face the absurdity of existence with courage, and a do applaud those who do and can still find and create happiness in their lives.

There is this uncanny and unstoppable feeling of freedom in doing so... it's like, our destiny is ours to mold and create, and we must take responsibility for each decision we make, no matter how small or inconsequential they may appear...
 

Chief Walkin Eagle

Well-Known Member
So astral travelers so desperately want an experience to happen that they get positive and consistent results out of chasing a fantasy so passionately? How do they get these positive and consistent results? I think its ignorant and stubborn to think that all these people are gullible spiritual airheads. I think you should treat it like ghosts. Theres obviously something going on, be it spirits or a quantum glitch in parallel universes. I think you find any spiritual explanation silly and you immediately disregard them because of your opinionated philosophy of people not knowing.

Like it or not, Z, your opinion of no one, in the history of man kind, knowing if theres such things as gods or an afterlife is just that, an OPINION. You dont seem humble at all when you try to force your opinion onto others as if its an absolute truth. Labeling yourself as a brave intellectual warrior of a universe of scientific unknowns while looking down upon the supposedly cowardly dreamers that grasp at the things that science cannot teach them. That doesnt sound humble to me. I imagine a Scrooge like man with a disgusted face every time you do your rant about self honesty and not knowing. What if me and all these millions of people really have experienced what we've said we've experienced consistently? You're gunna try and say that we're wrong? Get over yourself man. I view you as a Priest that is against freedom of thought. The collective of your subjective experiences have brought you to your OWN conclusion, a subjective conclusion. Im gunna keep giving you the same reply, that you dont know Z, you dont. You dont know if its possible to know about the afterlife or god, quit claiming that its impossible. I've heard other skeptics on here say that they dont know if its possible to know about the afterlife or god, are they wrong when they say that? Why is it so hard for you to admit that? You need to take your philosophy of "not knowing" to the next level man, then you will be humble. You wont feel the need to call people cowards, not the ones that are harmless at least.

Right now I know you're feeling the same feeling that religious people get when you pester them about their hateful beliefs, and Im feeling the same satisfaction as you do when exposing the flaws in peoples beliefs. I think we both know where we stand on your opinionated philosophy of not knowing, but if you try and force feed your opinion like its fact then you're gunna keep getting this reply and every "coward" you preach to will remain a coward.
 

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
I am not saying you are certainly wrong about astral projection, i am trying to help you understand that your eagerness to be certain that it is real only depicts your desperation that it be certainly true. I don't remember calling anyone a coward. I merely stated that i think some people live their lives more courageously than others. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I love thinking, i love writing and i love sharing my opinion. I tried to explain to you that i don't see myself any higher or lower than anyone else, more courageous in thought maybe, but no more special or unique... and i am not insinuating anyone else is a coward, like i've explained before... we all give meaning and purpose to our lives the best way we can whether it be unseen forces, or our children, family and friends. We all want to be happy, and we all do our best to live life in a way where we experience the least amount of fear, suffering and pain. We all do our best to understand what is going on right now, there is no "right or wrong" path. All i ask for people to do, for those who would be a real seeker of truth, to at least once in their life they doubt, as far as possible, all things.

How can we trust our minds if we can't even figure out whether or not this reality is a dream or not? When anyone becomes solidly certain of anything supernatural or metaphysical, it only depicts their desperation that it be true. If it was true, and it is a part of whatever this reality is... then it should be easy to show me. I'm not saying you are wrong, but that your certainty that it is true gives you away.

It should be easy, if millions are astral projecting, for at least one master to come visit me sometime and tell me what i say at a certain time of the day right?

Here, now you'll have my grumpy old face to put behind all of my thread replies.
 

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Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
I am not saying you are certainly wrong about astral projection, i am trying to help you understand that your eagerness to be certain that it is real only depicts your desperation that it be certainly true. I don't remember calling anyone a coward. I merely stated that i think some people live their lives more courageously than others. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. I love thinking, i love writing and i love sharing my opinion. I tried to explain to you that i don't see myself any higher or lower than anyone else, more courageous in thought maybe, but no more special or unique... and i am not insinuating anyone else is a coward, like i've explained before... we all give meaning and purpose to our lives the best way we can whether it be unseen forces, or our children, family and friends. We all want to be happy, and we all do our best to live life in a way where we experience the least amount of fear, suffering and pain. We all do our best to understand what is going on right now, there is no "right or wrong" path. All i ask for people to do, for those who would be a real seeker of truth, to at least once in their life they doubt, as far as possible, all things.

How can we trust our minds if we can't even figure out whether or not this reality is a dream or not? When anyone becomes solidly certain of anything supernatural or metaphysical, it only depicts their desperation that it be true. If it was true, and it is a part of whatever this reality is... then it should be easy to show me. I'm not saying you are wrong, but that your certainty that it is true gives you away.

It should be easy, if millions are astral projecting, for at least one master to come visit me sometime and tell me what i say at a certain time of the day right?

Here, now you'll have my grumpy old face to put behind all of my thread replies.
Challenge Accepted!

i declare, that when you were last sitting in a dope circle, after your hit, but before passing the doobie, you said, to the stoner on your left, and i quote,

"...'Ere!"

ok, now wheres my prize?

I Canz Be Warrior of Lights nao?


 
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