Atheist Manifesto

hom36rown said:

So an agnotstic is lazy, otherwise they would realize they couldnt disprove god, and therefore must believe in him...retarded

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lmfao, I was thinking the same thing man. I think it's kind of interesting that the people who say things like that can't see how easily the logic can fall apart when you insert _____ for God...

You, the believer, is the one making the claim that the God of the bible exists. Therefor it's your responsibility to PROVE he exists with evidence before it would be a rational belief. It's not up to us to go search every single inch of the universe to be sure that God does not exist in any of it... don't you guys say God is "outside space and time" anyway...? Meaning if it did exist, it would be outside the universe we occupy.

So I guess by using your flawed logic, God does not exist, as he is not within our universe.

Also, every single human being is born ATHEIST, it takes years of indoctrination to become a believer.

wow i think bigwheels statement was one of the most batshit crazy responses i have ever heard on riu it was angry hateful and at the same time made no sense in any way. i normally would retort but in some cases why bother hilarious +rep for making me laugh.

whats a devil dog heathern commie liberal democrat anyways its not important i got a good laugh on this one.

bicycle racer said:

whats a devil dog heathern commie liberal democrat anyways its not important i got a good laugh on this one.

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lol, I guess anyone who doesn't fall in line like a good little Christian...

Hahaha. There is so much crazy shit going on in here I am glad there are other people in here to combat the non-logic.

CaptnJack said:

has everything to do with how old the son is, and what denomination of Christianity you are talking about.

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Are you trying to say that under a certain set of conditions, this scenario could play out logically? The only way this could work would be if the religion allowed for an error in its own judgement, in which case the age of the son never mattered at all.

turtleblood said:

Hahaha. There is so much crazy shit going on in here I am glad there are other people in here to combat the non-logic.


Are you trying to say that under a certain set of conditions, this scenario could play out logically? The only way this could work would be if the religion allowed for an error in its own judgement, in which case the age of the son never mattered at all.

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like he said if the son was young the christians believed that the soul was still pure in "gods" eyes because hes so young he doesnt know what hes done.. ....but that only goes to like age 10

turtleblood said:

Hahaha. There is so much crazy shit going on in here I am glad there are other people in here to combat the non-logic.


Are you trying to say that under a certain set of conditions, this scenario could play out logically? The only way this could work would be if the religion allowed for an error in its own judgement, in which case the age of the son never mattered at all.

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Sorry, that original post was too crazy for me to even read past the first couple of sentences...

As I feel that the root of all ills, social and environmental, is overpopulation.
I propose a mass and immediate auto-rapturization...a real test of faith...not words and pop culture/tattoo influence window stickers claiming not to be of this world. Real Faith!

I know the excuse will be proposed about how that would be a sin...though christians wear the sinner label with pride...why try not to sin? I guess they can't help it. So Hayseuss died for your sins, god will understand.

Now Reverend Jones prepared a special Communion, and my local Heavens' gate caught the Hale Bop Comet Express after a nice chocolate pudding (please do not use the bomb vest, the only virgins are underage) Now I appreciate the holy "synbolism" (originally a typo, but it works) used by brother Jimbo, and maybe the HG'ers were flying coach with no snack, but I propose a method of (mass) Auto-Rapturization that will kill...well bad cliché, but one problem with this removal of the good from the filth of the planet faith could not save, would be the immediate loss of witnesses to convert. HOWEVER! fear not ye multitude! For I have a plan...Angels decending from on high. Could you imagine they show of faith, the power of such an act, millions of christians jumping from the nearest height...whole congregations lined up on bridges, church steeples, vista points. It would be truly inspirational.

Now while this will move millions to possibly join the multitude...I may have to skip out on all the fun...wouldn't want to ruin heaven. Leave this wasteland of a planet, that you never had any motivation to take care of...god will fix it, plus just a worthless bus stop to your final destination.

I do think this might inspire a change in my ideology as now supply and demand economics will work just fine. Lots of supply, next to no demand, open space, clean air, clean water...Heaven...on Earth where it was always meant to be.

Of course I am kidding (a little)...But listen up you catholics, mormons, latin americans, and anti-abortionist murderers...STOP F'ING BREEDING!!!! It is not a miracle of god it is a parasite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should have smoked before writing this, I will now...Happy Sabbath...Shalom!

Hayduke said:

Of course I am kidding (a little)...But listen up you catholics, mormons, latin americans, and anti-abortionist murderers...STOP F'ING BREEDING!!!! It is not a miracle of god it is a parasite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe I should have smoked before writing this, I will now...Happy Sabbath...Shalom

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You mean you didn't smoke before writing that? Maybe I'm still high from last night... but man you got me confused.

I agree with the overpopulation bit. There are way too many of us. Which gets me thinking...
There should be a study done (if it hasn't been done already) to find out how many people the world could truly sustain with ideal conditions. What I mean is a decent standard of living, low infant mortality, little to zero homelessness, and zero starvation. I am also talking about the extremely wealthy giving up some of their wealth in order to support others in the world. Do we currently have the capacity to raise 6 billion people? What would the ideal and STABLE population of the planet be? This would yield some very interesting results.

were way way over that limit and have been for decades. 6bill i think is not a number in which quality of living can be good for all.

turtleblood said:

You mean you didn't smoke before writing that? Maybe I'm still high from last night... but man you got me confused.

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I am way more likely to condone a voluntary genocide when not medicated. I may have still been a little high from the night before...but the crazy never seems to go away.

turtleblood said:

I agree with the overpopulation bit. There are way too many of us. Which gets me thinking...
There should be a study done (if it hasn't been done already) to find out how many people the world could truly sustain with ideal conditions. What I mean is a decent standard of living, low infant mortality, little to zero homelessness, and zero starvation. I am also talking about the extremely wealthy giving up some of their wealth in order to support others in the world. Do we currently have the capacity to raise 6 billion people? What would the ideal and STABLE population of the planet be? This would yield some very interesting results.

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bicycle racer said:

were way way over that limit and have been for decades. 6bill i think is not a number in which quality of living can be good for all.

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In Ecology it is the carrying capacity (K) of what ever hierarchy of habitat...for humans it is Earth. It is based on things like available fresh water and farmable land. It seems like the estimate was between 6-10 billion, and that it had likely already been exceeded. The fossil fuel based agriculture and desalination are good indicators that (K) has been exceeded now for many years, and technology is artificially and temporarily propping up the whole shebang.

Hayduke said:

I am way more likely to condone a voluntary genocide when not medicated. I may have still been a little high from the night before...but the crazy never seems to go away.




In Ecology it is the carrying capacity (K) of what ever hierarchy of habitat...for humans it is Earth. It is based on things like available fresh water and farmable land. It seems like the estimate was between 6-10 billion, and that it had likely already been exceeded. The fossil fuel based agriculture and desalination are good indicators that (K) has been exceeded now for many years, and technology is artificially and temporarily propping up the whole shebang.

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With out technology the population would probably still be in the hundreds of millions, maybe...

With out technology we'd all be in the stone age. So much for comfortable life style...

Then there's infant mortality, and the diseases that we no longer hear of. Whooping Cough, Typhoid Fever, Tuberculosis, Small Pox, whatever it was that FDR had, Measles, Mumps and Rubellum.

Technology is the greatest thing on Earth.

The only thing the lack of space on Earth says to me is that it is time for humanity to leave Earth.

TheBrutalTruth said:

With out technology the population would probably still be in the hundreds of millions, maybe...

With out technology we'd all be in the stone age. So much for comfortable life style...

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about the population...could be. As for the stone age....we have had thousands of years between then and the Industrial Revolution.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Then there's infant mortality, and the diseases that we no longer hear of. Whooping Cough, Typhoid Fever, Tuberculosis, Small Pox, whatever it was that FDR had, Measles, Mumps and Rubellum.

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Ahhh...infant mortality, what a sweet sound. Small pox (and I suspect others) was cured by very simple science...observation of an inquisitive mind...and a non hypodermic needle.

These things have been co-related with humans for eons. Their removal is the same as the removal of predators from a predator-prey system....Starving, genetically weak elk...or the Jackson Wyoming National Elk Soup Kitchen....Deer on the dole.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Technology is the greatest thing on Earth.

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Well this is the line we have been fed, and happily have embraced, and if you have petroleum holdings...finding all sorts of ways to re-package the waste byproducts into something which a value can be created....well yeah it is pretty great.

Consider how much people are working...multiple jobs and piles of debt to not really get ahead, and to have to make food choices based on what is left over after paying the bills. Unless you grow your own or buy organic, even eating vegetarian, you get an unhealthy dose of technology with nearly every bite. Gee maybe if we spray carcinogens on our food...people will get cancer...wow big stretch of the imagination there huh...but we never imagined it, we trusted technology with the faith of a good christian.

New research shows a 30-50% drop in protein concentration of wheat and barley between 1938 and 1990. USDA nutrient info: Broccoli in 1950 averaged 12.9 milligrams of calcium per dry gram....4.4mg/gr dry wt. in 2003.

And here is one that may have significance in how we grow our herb: A study on raspberries showed that the yield doubled when given a high P diet, but the levels of 8 other minerals declined by 20-55%...

So the green revolution saved millions from famine and allowed them to continue over-breeding, so millions more can die from something else while taking a few thousand other species with them

TheBrutalTruth said:

The only thing the lack of space on Earth says to me is that it is time for humanity to leave Earth.

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I am an ardent supporter of this...I'll hang out here and hold down the fort.

It is not space that is the determining factor with humans exceeding (K), but arable land and fresh water...these seem to be lacking elsewhere as well.

All this being said...of course technology has helped each of us, some in life changing/saving ways. The perspective is non-anthropocentric. It is undoubtedly better for the Earth, for us to continue to fly towards the flame, rather than try to make small changes that will extend the life of the infectious disease (humans) at the expense of flora and fauna.

I probably should smoke now

Hayduke said:

about the population...could be. As for the stone age....we have had thousands of years between then and the Industrial Revolution.



Ahhh...infant mortality, what a sweet sound. Small pox (and I suspect others) was cured by very simple science...observation of an inquisitive mind...and a non hypodermic needle.

These things have been co-related with humans for eons. Their removal is the same as the removal of predators from a predator-prey system....Starving, genetically weak elk...or the Jackson Wyoming National Elk Soup Kitchen....Deer on the dole.


Well this is the line we have been fed, and happily have embraced, and if you have petroleum holdings...finding all sorts of ways to re-package the waste byproducts into something which a value can be created....well yeah it is pretty great.

Consider how much people are working...multiple jobs and piles of debt to not really get ahead, and to have to make food choices based on what is left over after paying the bills. Unless you grow your own or buy organic, even eating vegetarian, you get an unhealthy dose of technology with nearly every bite. Gee maybe if we spray carcinogens on our food...people will get cancer...wow big stretch of the imagination there huh...but we never imagined it, we trusted technology with the faith of a good christian.

New research shows a 30-50% drop in protein concentration of wheat and barley between 1938 and 1990. USDA nutrient info: Broccoli in 1950 averaged 12.9 milligrams of calcium per dry gram....4.4mg/gr dry wt. in 2003.

And here is one that may have significance in how we grow our herb: A study on raspberries showed that the yield doubled when given a high P diet, but the levels of 8 other minerals declined by 20-55%...

So the green revolution saved millions from famine and allowed them to continue over-breeding, so millions more can die from something else while taking a few thousand other species with them

I am an ardent supporter of this...I'll hang out here and hold down the fort.

It is not space that is the determining factor with humans exceeding (K), but arable land and fresh water...these seem to be lacking elsewhere as well.

All this being said...of course technology has helped each of us, some in life changing/saving ways. The perspective is non-anthropocentric. It is undoubtedly better for the Earth, for us to continue to fly towards the flame, rather than try to make small changes that will extend the life of the infectious disease (humans) at the expense of flora and fauna.

I probably should smoke now

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References?

There's a lot I want to see independent verification of, specifically

New research shows a 30-50% drop in protein concentration of wheat and barley between 1938 and 1990. USDA nutrient info: Broccoli in 1950 averaged 12.9 milligrams of calcium per dry gram....4.4mg/gr dry wt. in 2003.


And here is one that may have significance in how we grow our herb: A study on raspberries showed that the yield doubled when given a high P diet, but the levels of 8 other minerals declined by 20-55%...


Though, would you rather those millions have starved?

Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation...

Besides, there's always vertical expansion... if the cities would ditch the light laws and realize that the only way to deal with increasing densities is to build up with infrastructure...

Besides, a technological breakthrough would probably be something that allows the reclamation of useful resources from landfills, and the destruction of the useless resources.

Of course there have always been frauds claiming to have achieved transmutation, but alas, only true transmutation can save humanity.

Well, either that or realizing that we can not solve our problems here with out expanding into space. Something that we both seem to agree on.

What about utalizing some of the resources in our oceans? I heard a statistic somewhere that said more than 85% of our oceans are completely unexplored, and we're finding thousands of new plants and animals on the land every single year. There's gotta be tons of useful stuff out there we just havn't found yet.

Also, I completely agree about the vertical expansion, I think that's the next step.

who's to say a rural village family orientated life would have less quality that is a matter of opinion of which many disagree. some feel living in a modern society with its lack of individual importance and aspects of impersonal treatment of the masses is not healthy for humans which are tribal in nature. the current form of human life is not the end all be all to happiness in any way. in fact life expectancy is on the decline in the us and has been for at least a decade. also with our technologically advanced lifestyles we use almost half of available resources world wide. this is a recipe for disaster on many levels in the near future. what we consider quality of living has no resemblance to how simply most live happily world wide we are taught to believe any lifestyle or value system different to our own is suffering which is untrue.

PadawanBater said:

What about utalizing some of the resources in our oceans? I heard a statistic somewhere that said more than 85% of our oceans are completely unexplored, and we're finding thousands of new plants and animals on the land every single year. There's gotta be tons of useful stuff out there we just havn't found yet.

Also, I completely agree about the vertical expansion, I think that's the next step.

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Lots of them, the problem is there is a lot more water so the actual concentrations are minute. If you could come up with an economical way to extract the resources then perhaps.

Nano-tech might be the best bet, it would also likely make desalination of ocean water a cinch.

The year the ocean's are no longer salt-water... 2305, lol.

i want to have the technology to selectively extract gold silver and platinum etc.. from the seas. whoever does that will be wealthy beyond imagination. gold and platinum are found in ppm's in the total volume of the ocean that is a whole lot of precious metal to be had but no worthwhile tech exists to economically extract metals. of course if there was it would be a bad thing for the ecosystem of the ocean and the earth oh well.

TheBrutalTruth said:

References?

There's a lot I want to see independent verification of, specifically

New research shows a 30-50% drop in protein concentration of wheat and barley between 1938 and 1990. USDA nutrient info: Broccoli in 1950 averaged 12.9 milligrams of calcium per dry gram....4.4mg/gr dry wt. in 2003.


And here is one that may have significance in how we grow our herb: A study on raspberries showed that the yield doubled when given a high P diet, but the levels of 8 other minerals declined by 20-55%...

Click to expand...

I am glad you asked: "Declining Fruit and Vegetable Nutrient Composition" HortScience, 2009; 44:15

TheBrutalTruth said:

Though, would you rather those millions have starved?

Kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation...

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Very true. The compassionate Human in me says of course I would not want famine leading to the death of millions. However, the Biologist in me says, ABSOLUTELY!

Better millions than hundreds of millions...the resulting population explosion has been and continues, with few exceptions, to be exponential. Birth control was and still is the problem, and the Catholic church still does not get it.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Besides, there's always vertical expansion... if the cities would ditch the light laws and realize that the only way to deal with increasing densities is to build up with infrastructure...

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I do not know about general light laws...I know that suburban communities do not want anything vertical as that kinda defeats the purpose. In SoCal there are light restrictions for the observatories as light interferes with the telescopes.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Besides, a technological breakthrough would probably be something that allows the reclamation of useful resources from landfills, and the destruction of the useless resources.

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Useless resources is an oxymoron.

TheBrutalTruth said:

Of course there have always been frauds claiming to have achieved transmutation, but alas, only true transmutation can save humanity.

Well, either that or realizing that we can not solve our problems here with out expanding into space. Something that we both seem to agree on.

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Actually I do not think that the human virus should break out of the earthly host, though if say 2/3rds tried and failed...no harm no foul....leave me the keys to the mountain retreat!

bicycle racer said:

who's to say a rural village family orientated life would have less quality that is a matter of opinion of which many disagree. some feel living in a modern society with its lack of individual importance and aspects of impersonal treatment of the masses is not healthy for humans which are tribal in nature. the current form of human life is not the end all be all to happiness in any way. in fact life expectancy is on the decline in the us and has been for at least a decade. also with our technologically advanced lifestyles we use almost half of available resources world wide. this is a recipe for disaster on many levels in the near future. what we consider quality of living has no resemblance to how simply most live happily world wide we are taught to believe any lifestyle or value system different to our own is suffering which is untrue.

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I agree. I also think that we are working harder to be able to afford all the things that are supposed to make are lives easier (work less). And why is it that we value work as much as we do? To me leisure is far more valuable.

as far as going vertical who wants to live that way how horrible the concept reminds me of new york and its stacked population its a shit hole. i would not live in such a way if you paid me and i fear anyone who feels thats an option for humans in general.

bicycle racer said:

i want to have the technology to selectively extract gold silver and platinum etc.. from the seas. whoever does that will be wealthy beyond imagination. gold and platinum are found in ppm's in the total volume of the ocean that is a whole lot of precious metal to be had but no worthwhile tech exists to economically extract metals. of course if there was it would be a bad thing for the ecosystem of the ocean and the earth oh well.

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I was happy to read your last sentence because that is the problem.

“When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.” ~John Muir

bicycle racer said:

as far as going vertical who wants to live that way how horrible the concept reminds me of new york and its stacked population its a shit hole. i would not live in such a way if you paid me and i fear anyone who feels thats an option for humans in general.

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I agree, I would hate it...I might be able to put up with it for a killer view, but will never be a rich man. Personally, I cannot stand apartment living. I live in a trailer park and it is far too cramped. I have long said I want to live where I cant see, hear, or smell my neighbors...clothing optional living.

However, for those that do not mind this lifestyle, I think it is good. Keeps them from building more suburbs...sprawl even sounds vulgar.