Coco Growers Unite!

jberry · Jul 11, 2010

At this point it starts to become a personal preference in grow methods... it looks okay as is but it could also use a little more cleaning out if you wanted a crop that mainly consisted of larger and denser colas. You would likely get the same weight in the final yield regardless of which method you use, it's just one way produces less flowers that are bigger anddenser and the other way produces a lot more flowers but they arent as heavy or big. The main thing you want to do is at least remove all the "sucker growth" which you have now done... it's up to if you want to remove more (I probably would personally). If you do remove more, I would take it from the center of each plant... any nodes down low on the branches and close to the main stalk is what I would remove, and I also prune any small/short branches growing inward (back toward the main stock).

and to answer your question in your last post about the order of adding nutrients to your tank... Add the Micro first, before the Plant Amp... add the plant amp last! (its a weak solution of organic calcium and is a rare exception to the rule). You shouldnt adjust the pH of the nutrient solution after you have added the Plant Amp, so you need to add the Micro or Cal/mag or whatever high calcium product you are using first then add the rest of your nutes (but NOT the Plant Amp), then adjust your Ph to whatever you want it at (5.6 - 6.1), then you can add your Plant Amp last and don't re-adjust your pH again... Your pH is going to be very low (like 4-5!) from the organic acids in the plant-amp but it wont hurt your plants and once the plant absorbs the organic acids in the first 24-48 hours, then the pH in the medium will be back to normal... These types of things are the reason it is sometimes scary for people to mix brands of nutes without fully understanding what is truly in them and how they work and interact ect.

overall things are looking good bro........... peace, -J

buraka415 · Jul 12, 2010

@Jberry

Tonight I just didnt use the Plant Amp at all. Just Micro first (8ml/gal), Rhizo (2ml/gal), then A/B (I forgot about lowering it to 12-13ml, I still did it at 15ml/gal).. Finally, I added some Earth Juice Hi-Brix molasses at about 15ml/gal. I haven't been doing this every time for the coco, but pretty much each time for the few soil containers I have. But I do have a decent amount of it, so it shouldn't hurt I would think.

I totally hear you on the Plant Amp re: low PH. No wonder its been that low! dernt! Plus it says it right on their site: http://www.cuttingedgesolutions.org/catalog/additives.php (sigh) I've been adjusting PH at the end of the nute mix, I then aerate for ideally 90 - 120 mins, then feed/water.

I dont recall seeing any Mg in the CES Micro.. I'd prefer to be able to find a Cal/Mg combo solution, so perhaps MagiCal is that product. Buying Plant Amp and/or UJB is just so cost prohibitive for me right now, especially in a large quantity. I'd like to do K.I.S.S. as much as possible right now.

What would be the reason though to add Plant amp & Micro?

ZEN MASTER · Jul 12, 2010

buraka415 said:
went back and removed stuff underneath - i get the feeling I may need to do more. I'm just so apprehensive on going too far up.

View attachment 1039891 View attachment 1039892

dude all you have to do is move your hand across the top of the canopy. whatever buds, bud sites, small branches, and leaves that you see that does not catch any light, or that stays shaded "NEEDS TO BE CUT OFF". trust me, cause what they eat up in nutes, and all the energy taken away from the buds, and bud sites that are getting 100% of the light aint gonna be worth you trying to save as many bud sites as possible. your yeild may or may not be the same, but i do know this, you are going to have hell trimming all those little, itty-bitty buds. and when they dry they are going to be even smaller . not worth your precious time man. thats just my opinion though, just my method. btw JBerry is also correct in his method. i dont want you thinking that i'm trying to shoot his method down. big up Jberry! but like i said i just prefer less colas that are way larger and easier to trim than a hundred little nickle to quarter sized buds that when they dry will be smaller than a dime.

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

buraka415 · Jul 12, 2010

ZEN MASTER said:
dude all you have to do is move your hand across the top of the canopy. whatever buds, bud sites, small branches, and leaves that you see that does not catch any light, or that stays shaded "NEEDS TO BE CUT OFF". trust me, cause what they eat up in nutes, and all the energy taken away from the buds, and bud sites that are getting 100% of the light aint gonna be worth you trying to save as many bud sites as possible. your yeild may or may not be the same, but i do know this, you are going to have hell trimming all those little, itty-bitty buds. and when they dry they are going to be even smaller . not worth your precious time man. thats just my opinion though, just my method. btw JBerry is also correct in his method. i dont want you thinking that i'm trying to shoot his method down. big up Jberry! but like i said i just prefer less colas that are way larger and easier to trim than a hundred little nickle to quarter sized buds that when they dry will be smaller than a dime.

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

nah, i agree with you guys. I'm going to go back and do more. I was just at least getting some major undergrowth outta the way. I definitely dont want a ton of popcorn/larfy stuff. but even though they say 80% of light passes through the fan leaves, its just not worth keeping I guess. My canopy is definitely too deep I guess. Although I have less plants this time around, b/c they vegged for a bit, and are just exhibiting explosive growth in the coco, they are bushier than some cycles that I've done in soil.

Thanks again for the tips.

ZEN MASTER · Jul 12, 2010

buraka415 said:
nah, i agree with you guys. I'm going to go back and do more. I was just at least getting some major undergrowth outta the way. I definitely dont want a ton of popcorn/larfy stuff. but even though they say 80% of light passes through the fan leaves, its just not worth keeping I guess. My canopy is definitely too deep I guess. Although I have less plants this time around, b/c they vegged for a bit, and are just exhibiting explosive growth in the coco, they are bushier than some cycles that I've done in soil.

Thanks again for the tips.

hey also bro, you got alot of cloning material there too, just as long as they are not past two weeks. dont forget that. hell you can get as many clones as you want from what you are going to cut off, you know.just saying.

BTW.......nice ass plants man. treat 'em right,and your gonna have alot of real good "GOOD" there.

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

buraka415 · Jul 14, 2010

wait - elaborate on that.. past 2 weeks into flower? theyre about 9 or 10 days into flower now. I definitely could use some clones right now as $$ is tight..

i went back and did some more snip snip over the past 2 days.. i would say the canopy is probably about 10" deep - at least? I just look around at the node sites and I just have a hard time seeing how I would get a zip+ if i keep raising it up. I'll snap sum more pix tonight. i might pull one out of the bunch and stand her aside and let the thread/site give me feedback. I've taken the bud sites off the lower branches, and moved back also closer to the main trunk.. but per JBerry's suggestion, I've left the fan leafs in each of those areas... that make sense? is that right?

i can certainly say this.. im FUKKIN impressed by this coco grow. the trunks of these girls are as thick as my thumb or more pretty much all around. You can look at the few soil containers and I have going, and there is very little comparison.

ZEN MASTER · Jul 15, 2010

buraka415 said:
wait - elaborate on that.. past 2 weeks into flower? theyre about 9 or 10 days into flower now. I definitely could use some clones right now as $$ is tight..

i went back and did some more snip snip over the past 2 days.. i would say the canopy is probably about 10" deep - at least? I just look around at the node sites and I just have a hard time seeing how I would get a zip+ if i keep raising it up. I'll snap sum more pix tonight. i might pull one out of the bunch and stand her aside and let the thread/site give me feedback. I've taken the bud sites off the lower branches, and moved back also closer to the main trunk.. but per JBerry's suggestion, I've left the fan leafs in each of those areas... that make sense? is that right?

i can certainly say this.. im FUKKIN impressed by this coco grow. the trunks of these girls are as thick as my thumb or more pretty much all around. You can look at the few soil containers and I have going, and there is very little comparison.

cool no prob. ok in general most strains take about two weeks to fully get out of the vegetative state. now some take shorter times some longer, but in general two weeks. with that being said you have about a two week time window after you put your plants in flower to take any clones you might want. this is also an excellent method for those who cant have a mother plant. but remember this, the longer you wait to take the clones the longer you'll have to wait for them to root, upwards of 1-2 extra weeks. but like you said $$ is tight so you gotta do what you gotta do right. but 9-10 days you should be cool. i've waited like three weeks one time, the plants had started forming pistils ok.but i'd cut some asap. and give them 24 hrs of light for at least two weeks before you switch to 18/6, cause some people 18/6 their clones me i give them 24 hrs. but yea dude this is a great way to keep a strain going. just two things for future reference. they are kinda important #1 depending on how long you veg i would take my clones right before or at least a week before i put them out to flower. that will eliminate "ANY" delay that you would experience if you took the clones after you stared flower(up to 6-12 days after). #2 always take more than what you will need, just in case. if your space holds 12 plants take 16-18 clones if you can. like i said thats just in case something happens to one or two or three of them before you put them in veg.
hope that helps man. and again not saying any of this is law, its just what works and has worked for me.

P.S. dont worry about your yield that much. just remember its survival of the fittest. if you had a gallon of water and were dying of thrist, would you rather have it all to yourself? or would you want to share it with ten other people? well thats how you gotta look at it. every little "sucker" bud thats not really getting any light or is just small that you let grow is taking away from those up top that could really use all those extra nutes that those litlle piece of crap buds are using up. you get my point though. but heres a little something for you to do to see for yourself. get three plants or three out of how ever many you are growing. Plant #1: let it grow like you usually do normally with all the underbrush. Plant #2 trim the according to JB's spec's. Plant #3 Go extreme and cut "EVERYTHING"thats not getting 100% light, "EVERYTHING".by doing this it will give you a great gauge on how much you want to prune off in future grows. ive rambled enough though, i'm out man.

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

buraka415 · Jul 15, 2010

so i need to get some rooting/cloning gel, etc? I just take off a lower side-branch, and only plant the tip of that? or take cuttings from each ancillary branch off that one that I cut? does that make sense?

so.. ----<----<--@ this is a crappy example, but do/can I take cuts where each of the "<" are? or can i only use what would be ---@

i would place these under floros right? or if i raised my MH1K up REAL high, would that be too much heat? I can place these straight into coco, or do I gotta get grodans?

buraka415 · Jul 15, 2010

sorry i did that last posting at work, and didnt take the time to really search it up.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/725-how-do-i-clone-marijuana.html

I think by the pics i got my other questions, regarding which part of the cutting/branch will be utilized, answered.

Could i just put these cups down on the trays, so they would be probably 4-5' from the lights, and pretty well below the canopy so there will be shade. that would be their 12/12 time too. Is that right, re: first hour ratio? 12/12?

.. from there after "X" # of days (i.e. once well rooted?) then i can move them to smaller containers of coco?

Can I foliar spray these clones after a few days with a light mix of Rhizo? or avoid that until planted into coco container?

so these wouldnt need to be domed or anything under floros?

jberry · Jul 16, 2010

If your plants are showing clusters of pistols already then I honestly wouldnt even bother this time around unless you are willing to wait 2-3 times as long as you normally would for usable clones... not always but often the plant will be mutated from taking cutting from plants in full flower. The plant has a hormonal rage from trying to flower, revert to veg, grow roots and recover from the stress of being cut all at the same time... I honestly wouldnt take cuttings from a plant in 12/12 and if i were going to it would be in the first 3-5 days before to much flowering hormones get fired off and stretching tendencies start in. Next time just take them the day you put them into flower.

You could use your MH if it were really high or the cuttings were off to the side but Floros work better for rooting... Different light spectrums cause the plant to produce different chemicals and hormones and floros are best for rooting but once the roots are established then your MH will be the call.

You can use coco but i like rockwool cuz i can see the roots sooner/easier and tell which ones are best.

buraka415 said:
so i need to get some rooting/cloning gel, etc? I just take off a lower side-branch, and only plant the tip of that? or take cuttings from each ancillary branch off that one that I cut? does that make sense?

so.. ----<----<--@ this is a crappy example, but do/can I take cuts where each of the "<" are? or can i only use what would be ---@

i would place these under floros right? or if i raised my MH1K up REAL high, would that be too much heat? I can place these straight into coco, or do I gotta get grodans?

buraka415 · Jul 16, 2010

OK. well, i'd rather not risk it then. I'm getting a small handful in about a week anyways, so I'd rather not do anything to the current girls that would remotely run the risk of negative repercussions.

jberry · Jul 16, 2010

buraka415 said:
sorry i did that last posting at work, and didnt take the time to really search it up.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/725-how-do-i-clone-marijuana.html

I think by the pics i got my other questions, regarding which part of the cutting/branch will be utilized, answered.

Could i just put these cups down on the trays, so they would be probably 4-5' from the lights, and pretty well below the canopy so there will be shade. that would be their 12/12 time too. Is that right, re: first hour ratio? 12/12?

.. from there after "X" # of days (i.e. once well rooted?) then i can move them to smaller containers of coco?

Can I foliar spray these clones after a few days with a light mix of Rhizo? or avoid that until planted into coco container?

so these wouldnt need to be domed or anything under floros?

Man I dont know one other person that uses that 50 year old method of cloning... I know it works but it must take forever and i dont like anything about it... If someone is going to use that method I would definitely recommend changing out the water daily and use cups that dont let any light through at all (not the colored see-threw ones he uses), a coffee mug would work good because it insulates heat and doesnt let light threw.

I use a rooting hormone and rockwool like everyone else... I also use a cloning machine and it works fast but takes up more room and uses power and was expensive to buy so I recommend rockwool and any rooting hormone and/or sterilizer... Also rough up the edges of the stem everywhere that will be down in the rockwool.

If you want to get crazy about it you can read my thread on cuttings > :
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/293978-taking-cuttings-clones.html

buraka415 · Jul 16, 2010

oohh la la. thanks for the link there. I will read it soon.

You know what, I do have an EZ Clone that hasn't been put to use, b/c a) a long time ago I had bad luck with it - again due to bad advice some1 gave me, and had the clones under a 600 i think? fried them; b) I've just been constantly trying to focus on the whichever current cycle, and didnt invest the time/energy into clones, but this spring it killed me not having that in place. Time to put it to use. Its one of the 64-slot ones? It needs serious cleaning, and checking out that the sprayers still work. etc.

jberry · Jul 16, 2010

yes, you have to keep them really clean and that can be tricky when they start getting older and it is a lot of hard work to clean them proper.

I have the 120 model and I have no heat issues when i set it on a cold floor but i have heard that the smaller units like the ezclone 64 has the same size motor as the 120 and it gets the water too hot.

Warm water causes pythium (root rot) in the water which is quickly spread throughout the whole system.... Beware, keep it cool.

buraka415 · Jul 16, 2010

hmm i should go count the holes, it might be the 120 model afterall.

Whats a good clean? Blasted with bleach water?

ZEN MASTER · Jul 16, 2010

buraka415 said:
sorry i did that last posting at work, and didnt take the time to really search it up.

https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/725-how-do-i-clone-marijuana.html

I think by the pics i got my other questions, regarding which part of the cutting/branch will be utilized, answered.

Could i just put these cups down on the trays, so they would be probably 4-5' from the lights, and pretty well below the canopy so there will be shade. that would be their 12/12 time too. Is that right, re: first hour ratio? 12/12?

.. from there after "X" # of days (i.e. once well rooted?) then i can move them to smaller containers of coco?

Can I foliar spray these clones after a few days with a light mix of Rhizo? or avoid that until planted into coco container?

so these wouldnt need to be domed or anything under floros?[/QUOTE
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well i use the small plastic cups for my clones. used to use the 8oz cups never had any kind of problem. now i use these small 2 or 3 oz plastic bathroom cups with coco also. all i do is make my nutes at 1/8-1/4 strength, and i ve never had any problems, NEVER. ive used rockwool before, and yes you do "see" the progression of the roots better, but i just like to start them in what they are going to finish in. just my opinion ok, but i think it eliminates whatever small amount of stress the young plant may go through when it has to get itself used to a totally different medium. also, in my opinion, its cheaper, easier, and i noticed that the plan t just take off a little better, and faster. and i think its because the coco to coco transition is just a lot easier for the plant to make, just my opinion though. just try one or two clones in coco, and see how "you" like it.
as far as the clones, like i said you can cut some now it will just take a minute for them to revert. but since you got some coming i wouldn't worry about it. just remeber to always "try" to cut them before you put them out to flower.
i really dont use Rhizo until i veg, but i dont foliar with itso i cant give a yea or nay on that, but they will most likely have to be domed, and yes floros are great for clones.

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

LeeroySlim · Jul 16, 2010

hey Zen how often do u water your clones, i might try cloning in coco for a change, u usually use rockwool then transplant to coco but it makes sense to clone in coco.

also do u start with 1/4 nutes from the begining or once they root?

buraka415 · Jul 16, 2010

@Zen

thanks for the reply

ZEN MASTER · Jul 16, 2010

LeeroySlim said:
hey Zen how often do u water your clones, i might try cloning in coco for a change, u usually use rockwool then transplant to coco but it makes sense to clone in coco.

also do u start with 1/4 nutes from the begining or once they root?

well for your first question. since the coco is absorbs so much fluid, and holds on to it for a minute,the whole two weeks that they are in the clone cab in the dome i "might" have to water once after the initial watering when i cut the clones. i just water when my cup gets light.

here is my rundown:
1. clones 2 weeks IN 4-8OZ CUPS( feed as needed) under flourescent lighting-1/8 strength nutes
2. PRE VEG 2 weeks in 4x4x4 inch square pots feed as needed(about every four to five days)-1/4 strength nutes
3. VEG 2 weeks in 7x7inch square pots feed about every three to four days-1/2 strength nutes
4. flower in the same 7x7 inch pot(feed every three days)-increase from 1/2 strength to full strength nutes over a two week period(how fast is up to you)

PEACE!!!
-ZEN-

jberry · Jul 16, 2010

Coco will work good for cuttings when compared to soil... the natural trichoderma helps protect from disease which is nice and i will admit that using the same medium is the most ideal situation so i will agree with zen on those points. Any cup is fine as long as it doesnt let light through the walls... I dont have a problem with using cups... It was the cloning in plain water that doesn't ever get changed out that i was frowning upon as a slow outdated method, but that's just my 2 cents.

I personally still prefer rockwool... it is still hydro so there isnt a huge shock when transplanted but i admit it would be less stress if it were coco to coco instead but i guess i havent noticed anything big enough to concern me. I just like the convenience of the small rockwool cubes... they are easy and quick to use and they dont make any mess at all but my main reason for using them is i can fit 300 clones in the same area i could fit only 30 four inch pots or keg cups ect., so the room it saves is a huge benefit for me.

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