DankSwag's Green Machine 2014

Thedillestpickle said:

That is a really interesting hybrid method of growing you have there!



If the soil in the pot is extra hot, how do you get the young vegging plants to grow down through the hot soil without burning? I understand once those roots hit the water below the burning is no longer an issue, but how do they get there in the first place without burning?


Are you saying you never have to water the pots when they are sitting on top of the wet stones?
Do you mix your soil with less aeration materials to maximize wicking?

Its a bit more setup work, but I like what your doing. Personally from growing with nutes, I got extremely tired of mixing things up and having to schedule so much time for my plants. I love it, but you have to be able to have a life at the same time.

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Hey Dill, my initial setup that way was using a two bag system where young vegging plants in moderate good soil, then I'd place them into a hot bag of a couple inches soil.
Initially I noticed some tip burn but that settled as noticed roots made their way through. Also I believe some nutrients were probably wicked up into the upper soil before roots grew down this should helped too in wreaking the shock growing down into the hot bag below. But it is nice to once plants reach reservoir with roots that watering is focused more on teas to occasionally boost soil web. You can let reservior run dry to allow soil to dry out a little for adding teas. I rarely do as I find even in adding teas to moist soil in fog excess moisture is a problem plenty of air with these cloth pots and water quickly evaporates which for me is great cause I have low humidity anywise so this help keep needed moisture in air as well using PHOGS.

As far as wicking goes the rocks do the job up to the cloth barrier in which the soil resides, from there it's all pretty much the capilliary action of soil fibers absorbing the available water molecules .

The initially set up yes takes time, but when plants water themselves and once I get the float value for gravity feed implemented and put this into a room not a cab it will free up more time enjoy life, that is the whole idea in PHOGS self sustaining as possible with little intervention or as much as one wants I guess.

DankSwag

DANKSWAG said:

give me the formula so I can reference and plug in my gram total for output.

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Couple of yield stats I've used:

• Grams per Watt (g/W): total yield/total wattage of lights.
  • for example, I have a 400W HPS, and my harvest was 400g buds. I produced 400g/400W or 1 g/W.
• Grams per square foot (g/ft2) or per square meter (g/m2): total yield/grow footprint (floor area)
  • for example, my grow area is 2' deep x 3' wide x 4' tall; my floor area is 2x3 = 6 ft2. Same harvest at 400g buds. I produced 400g/6 ft2 or 67 g/ft2

Lot of variables in yield, but I have found it interesting to track & compare my grows.

I like the dried pics. However, I had to deduct points for no drying details or pics Total score 95.2 out of a possible 100.

RedCarpetMatches said:

I like the dried pics. However, I had to deduct points for no drying details or pics Total score 95.2 out of a possible 100.

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Ya Red your are right about that, my phone screen was busted during harvest so yeah that sucks no sweet sticky green shots of fresh harvested branches.

Next time!

Anywise will update soon on my latest cycle in PHOGS. These gals are in my modified ROLS pots and I just lolly-popped them yesterday.

So if I get I chance will update with those pics.

DankSwag

When do you lollipop Mr. Dabby? I was just bustin your nanners about the dry info lol...don't know why so many never show this in their journals. At least you threw in those dried pics The dry/cure is just as important as the grow right? Anyways, I was also curious as to how much soil actually gets moist. Do your pots actually wick to the top?

RCM,

Say if you have a good amount of coco-fiber and or peat moss, yes your soil will be moist to just under the top layer for lights and air will keep surface dry.

As you know in a regular pot, if there are no drain holes to much water retained root rot could take hold and destroy plant.

So consider this as you examine what is occurring in a passive hydro system. We know that in non passive hydro systems plants roots soak in water, ie Deep Water Culture where air is pumped into water to keep plant from drowning.

In PHOGS water is wicked into the soil yet soil will not absorbed more then it can hold because water is not being poured into with no where to go.
What you will have is a soil that will have all the moisture the roots of the plant need and will suck up more as the plants roots drink what is in the soil.

As long as the cloth pot does not rest directly in water but on top of the rocks in the reservoir the soil will wick up only what it can hold so it will be just right. The cloth pots allow for great air exchange in the soil, so with the water and air constantly same consistency in the soil web, this is ideal for a stable soil web for micro beast to be highly functional. When soil dries micro beast go dormant!

My soil never goes dry just on the surface, the soil web stays nice and happy. If you let the reservoir run dry, just by filling it back up so water line just under top surface of rocks where pot sits. Even if you want to water with tea, you can still water excess will drain and evaporate out without drowning the plants roots.

Hope that answers your question.

Thanks for the reply Dabby. Your set up intrigues me I sub.

Hey RCM,

Say glad your intrigued. When I was reading how Ed Rosenthal was touting the benefits of passive hydroponics I couldn't help but think how I could incorporate the principles in my own application and receive the same benefits. I am certainly looking at trying a few different modification or tweaks in hopes of really encouraging lower root growth.

I have some things in mind like a large pond type reservoir with air pumps oxygenating the reservoir 24/7.
Also to address shortage of premium silica rock for wicking material I am going to maximize my use of them by filling them directly into a cloth pot at measured height.
currently they cover the entire surface of my reservoirs. This will clean up the look too and by ensure each pot of rocks is the same height I can maintain a float valve inside the reservoir so no matter if one plant drinks more than another because they all the ladies will be in their cloth pots of soil which will rest at same height on rock pots. So the valve will allow water back in and stop right below surface of the rock pots in the reservoir. Which provide an aerated silica rock firmament for them to reach in and grow around. One could put any assortment of silica rock, grow stone or even from what I understand some have success with pumice lave rock to build the base rock pots that will host the organic soil grow in cloth pots.


I have found it is important to keep light out from down around the bottom of the pots where the roots will grow out sides and under down through rocks forming a web that when you lift the pots out after harvest you have to shake vigorously to loosen the roots and rocks that are entangled. Also since roots allowed to grow down through they have to dry for to ease removing from the cloth pots.


Anywise with a more open reservoir that would be easier to drain and cycle water through I would be curious to try adding things like silica powder to the water directly, even considered testing using air pump verses priming a reservoir before use with a strong mix of food grade hydrogen peroxide and water and allow hydrogen to break down into harmless extra oxygen prior to inserting soil pots into the rock pots sitting in reservoir. Also easy way to clean prior to use or after. Definitely wouldn't want soil pots in system when applying.

Anywise the goal is let the plant water itself and never worry about a shortage that could slow growth or reduce activity of soil web do to lack of water. This should ensure strong root growth or productive root growth in plant where one can see similar benefits that other types of hydro without the dependence on an electric pump and timing. Let nature be the pump and let the plant drink when she wants cause she will always access just like in other hydro but the benefit of upper roots growing in an organic feed troth of a rich soil bed. The best of both, taking advantage as Ed says of the different root structure of the plant.

I promise more pics to come of all this.

DankSwag

I was thinking the same exact thing!!! Covering the water, oxygenated water, or a flood table type thing would really kick it up a notch or two

Hey there,

To answer the question about Lolly - popping these girls as you know I main-line them from clones once a few branches have developed and usually cut the lower branches below the main line branch and make clones of them to keep the perpetual cycle going.

So after weeks of vegging and main line training when it is their time to hit flowering and I place them into the PHOGS chamber I typically wait a week as they adjust to the stronger flowering light, the cycle change and being watered from the ground up.

In this cycle you will see I moved over the vegging main lined trained ladies into PHOGS after my last harvest on 1/31, I did not Lolly - pop until 9 days later and I would of done a few days sooner.

Anywise here is a look in time from 1/30 to 2/11

Initial size growth of ladies upon entry into PHOGS. 1/30


Just prior to Lolly Popping... 2/9



Day of Lolly Popping 2/10


Day after Lolly Popping, doesn't that last one look beautiful of them praying...


DankSwag

It's been a few days however I thought I let ya all know well I've been busy.

New clone starts, vermi- composting casting collecting, upkeep, bokashi, soil cooking, and last but not least hooked with someone I know
that works with medical strains, dispensaries and collective gardens.

Anywise gave them an oz of my latest harvest to run some tane through and got 6.5 g back

Well here you are boys and girls

They all swear it is Girl Scout by the taste and flavor, they don't believe it is blue cheese. Blue Cheese was before Girl Scout even pulled up her panties!

my 5 gs.


DankSwag'n it Baby,
Mr Dabby here Dawgs!

Okay well we are now 19 almost 20 days into flower things are progressing well!

I hope you all agree Blue Cheese clones blossoming out....



DankSwag

Is that blue cheese a good yield? I have a bc blue berry and greenhouse cheese. Maybe I can. Have some fun lol

Hey May,

Ya, she is a good yielding plant. Can't wait to get into larger flowering room. My 2x3 is really keeping me from letter her veg longer and branch more. But she's a keeper for sure! Especially when I have a medicinal grower for a chain of dispensaries wanting more clones from me.

Let me know how that mad scientist thing goes there!

DankSwag

Looking good man. Should yield well.

Yo Dank,
Just caught up (well ok, i skimmed a little) on the thread. Loving what you're doing, and the worms look like they're producing some sweet black vermicompost! I also started a bin back when i lost touch with your thread, but i found it again and re-sub'd up!
I was thinking, would your PHOGS system be adaptable to a larger scale--I was thinking of a greenhouse/outdoor grow utilizing 7 or 10 gallon smart pots all stacked in a baby pool full of rocks. You think this would work? I would already be considering burying a system of airstones hooked up to a commercial grade pump to doubly ensure aeration, but what other problems would you forsee in a scaled up version?
Thanks buddy, i'm looking forward to following the ride!
be easy,

Hey Dr J,

Thanks I'd take the credit but those worms are naturals! The can freaking eat, shit and fuck like a herd of rabbits! Which reminds me I need to source rabbit poo to feed to worms, that love that shit, pardon the pun!

Here's the basic low down on PHOGS. I like to work smart, not hard if there is something I can delegate and or setup that allows dependable repetitive results I am incorporating it. When I learned from Ed Rosenthal the DANK FATHER OF CANNABIS that our ladies have and upper and lower root system of which the upper is focused on bring in nutrients whereas the lower root system seeks after H20, which Ed has his own method for incorporating passive hydroponics into his grows. The benefits of a readily available aerated water source are well known in mechanical hydro systems relying on electric pumps to move air and water so plant won't drown. However all typical hydro system are soil-less, thus synthetic nutrients. This knowledge assured me that I could have the benefits of both a water reservoir watering and organic soil web feeding, the proper union of both IMHO.

Therefore Benefits, no failed equipment no drowned plants, no testing of unadulterated water needed as long as it remains unchanged. The water you would use would be the same for any organic grow for the water will naturally wick its way into the soil. The soil web stays moist but no soaked, keeping bio activity alive. Dry soil slows down mirco biology in the soil. Just make sure it is similar to rain, distilled or very low ppm spring water.

The removal of human error leading to growth issues or worse are alone worth initial setup time to reap the time not having to water and or care for plants with soil water issues. The materials that can be used are up to your imagination. It just so happens when Ed was doing this there where no cloth containers, he would put the rocks in the individual containers then coco fiber I believe between the rocks at the bottom and soil on top.

I have seen swimming pools etc, but they generally folks using 5 gal buckets with drain holes, half filled with pumice rock then landscape cloth over that and soil on top.They would set those containers in the pool and keep the pool water filled to allow water to wick up.

There is a variety of ways one could incorporate it. My first PHOGS was in a 5 gallon bucket.

What I am leaning too is that rocks that soak up water take up water weight alot of work to spread out in a pool type reservoir for you'd have to ensure levelness for you want to fill it allowing water to reach the place in all areas. With cloth pots sitting on top of rocks it is hard to maintain in 1.5 ' x 2.5 tubs.

I have thought about a larger scale to do so with precision to ensure water in entire reservoir at same level with all pots I have come up with a better solution then filling the entire reservoir with rocks and trying to make it level.

Using a two cloth bag system, I would use a gallon larger then the one for the soil for it will have to fit inside the larger one. Then I would fill with rocks to a pre measured line on the outer cloth, this should provide the uniformity needed. As long as your reservoir is level to begin with then it can work well I think to go larger.
In my plans to scale this out, I would prefabricate a reservoir using 2x4 to create the container then line it with thick poly, like making your own pond.
Then I will further automate that with a gravity feed from a 50 Gal barrel keeping the water line where I want it.
If one wanted they could beef up the oxygen but adding in air pumps. If they failed it wouldn't hurt because the rocks with air and water will keep plants happy and the soil layer above in a cloth container has lots of available air as well.

However if one wanted to use food grade hydrogen peroxide you could, but I would do so when reservoir not at fill line to avoid potentially the peroxide before it breaks down into extra oxygen from soaking into soil. If it remains in water only should be great boost.
Also one could go further and tease the plants with very light synthetic if they wanted again it would not enter the soil and be taken up just like in regular hydro.
One would want to be in a drain to flush of course if they are going to put salts in the water.


Nonetheless I go for what works best in incorporating it. Can't wait to see what you come up with.


So remember PHOGS is Simply passive hydroponics, which is adaptable to whatever resources one has for wicking material that will draw up water so roots can use their capillary action to draw up water into the soil.

DankSwag
Stay tuned more updates to come.