Does freewill exist?

Does freewill exist?

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Roger A. Shrubber said:
this is a serious question to me...one that's been on my mind a long time.
if there is not a "GOD"...then predestination cannot exist...predestination requires a guiding intelligence.
if there is a guiding intelligence, i still don't believe it would map out our entire existence for us...what would be the point?
perhaps "god" built the entire universe to achieve a particular result....which seems unlikely. "god" can create the universe, why can't "god" just create the situation they desire?
i'd like to think we were created (if we were "created") out of the joy of creation...and that we're a more or less unsupervised experiment...
outside intervention in an experiment usually ruins that experiment. i'm hoping "god" has the same opinion.
the cowardice part comes in using "predestination" as an excuse to avoid responsibility for your choice..."GOD made me the way i am"....no..."god" made you the same as everyone else, your choices turned you into what you are now...
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I wouldn't dwell on it but have some old fart friends a bit preoccupied with the "ever after". I think lost youth lends itself to this conundrum. I picked a "team" many years ago.....very liberating.
 
Roger A. Shrubber said:
not everyone has the same reaction to the same experience, resulting in a myriad of choices being made. if everything were predetermined, we'd all have the same reactions to the same stimuli
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For everyone, it is predetermined individually how they will react to stimuli.

Choices are made, all the time, but they aren't free choices.

Any choosing (action) comes only after a choosing thought. Do you have any control over your thoughts?

Think of something, say, a Cannabis strain. What came to mind? Why? Did you have control?

We have zero control over anything. There is only the illusion that we do. And it always comes after the fact. You say: "I COULD have done otherwise," when in fact you could not.
 
Looking into the past, all is determined. Looking into the future, nothing is determined. The all-encompassing present is all we have, and it is rife with cause and effect.

Predetemination and free will are expressions of present perspective. An argument can be made for each, and neither is provable.

It's like the debate over an afterlife. No one has the perspective to definitively determine the truth--like two five-year-olds trying to decide why a sex joke is funny.

We might as well be standing in between two mirrors that are facing each other.
 
JimmyJackCorn said:
Looking into the past, all is determined. Looking into the future, nothing is determined. The all-encompassing present is all we have, and it is rife with cause and effect.

Predetemination and free will are expressions of present perspective. An argument can be made for each, and neither is provable.

It's like the debate over an afterlife. No one has the perspective to definitively determine the truth--like two five-year-olds trying to decide why a sex joke is funny.

We might as well be standing in between two mirrors that are facing each other.
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Afterlife is an ideologically defining term.
 
JimmyJackCorn said:
Looking into the past, all is determined. Looking into the future, nothing is determined. The all-encompassing present is all we have, and it is rife with cause and effect.
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I like this, but I would even say that "past" and "future" do not exist. Only the "now" exists, as you've said.

Looking into the future means ruminating in the now about possible future events (unless we're talking about actual precognition, if that is a possibility).

Maybe space-time does not exist, or is an illusion. That's not an outrageous claim. In that case all the talk about "past", "future" and "now" would just be our limited way about expressing our experience/existence.

Maybe something like "free will" exists, but in that case it will be radically different in its nature from the illusion of free will that most people adhere to.
 
The way I see it is that you have your own personal will and then there’s the will of life.

The Will of life overrides our personal will.

For example anything you want from this physical world has two wills deciding it’s outcome. This is evident in nature.

You Might want a pepperoni pizza so you jump in your car and what not, that is your will. Now. The Will of life will either allow you to get your pizza or throw up an obstacle in exercising your will. Flat tyre, no pizzas, shop has been robbed, aliens invade, you have a heart attack… etc etc…

So it’s pretty simple when you see it. The beautiful thing is is that ultimately the Will of life is in control.

Thank fuck!
 
Nutty sKunK said:
The beautiful thing is is that ultimately the Will of life is in control.
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Well put!

That what needs to happen, will happen, and nothing else. It's very often not "good" or "likeable", but it's always the Right Thing. There is no alternative.

The Will of Life, I like that.

Nutty sKunK said:
The Will of life overrides our personal will.
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I think our personal will is a part of the Will of Life, but we demand from life that our will is fulfilled, so we fight with Reality all the time. The freedom we expect is not actually there, but we keep telling ourselves stories that is has been, and that we've exercised freedom of will all the time. It's always in hindsight ("I could have"), but never there in the Now.
 
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