Donald Trump

MrStickyScissors said:

I understand why Mexican would want to flee from Mexico. I don't blame them and I would too. But don't get mad because I want to lock my doors and you can't get in. That's life, it's not fair at all.

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Yeah no I actually think its totally justified to get pissed when someone tries to stop other people from escaping a dangerous situation even after admitting you would do the same. And yeah life may not be fair but it doesn't mean you have to be extra douchey to people to make sure they all see how unfair life can be. Thats literally some of the most ridiculous shit I've read you literally write that you dont blame them but somehow you also want condemn them to living an uncertain life in a place that is often controlled by drug cartels and stuff who kidnap and murder people on the regular. You seem to have no sense of compassion for other people man like seriously how full of yourself can you be?

rnint said:

Yeah no I actually think its totally justified to get pissed when someone tries to stop other people from escaping a dangerous situation even after admitting you would do the same. And yeah life may not be fair but it doesn't mean you have to be extra douchey to people to make sure they all see how unfair life can be. Thats literally some of the most ridiculous shit I've read you literally write that you dont blame them but somehow you also want condemn them to living an uncertain life in a place that is often controlled by drug cartels and stuff who kidnap and murder people on the regular. You seem to have no sense of compassion for other people man like seriously how full of yourself can you be?

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I'm saying it's natural to want to escape. And I don't blame them for doing what they gotta do. But don't blame someone else for doing what they have to do to stop it cause they don't want you hear. Have you heard of a civil war?

Lord Kanti said:

Whether or not non USA citizens are entitled to US rights and privileges are beside the point. The biggest problem with Mexico I s two fold: No death penalty, and no Second Amendment equivalent. Cartels are free to do whatever without worrying that what they will do will either get them on death row or shot by a law abiding citizen defending him or herself. The gun club/single gun store policy isn't even a shadow of freedom.

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Guns are pretty common place and the police in mexico torture and kill people at times so I don't think thats the issue. And also thank the freaking lord nobody else shares your guys gun laws you have to be insane thinking giving everyone a gun makes for a safe environment when thousands of people around the states are dying from guns every year how the hell does that make people safe, especially in that kind of a society if literally everyone had guns that place would be a war zone.

If enough Americans felt that the government was out of control we would fight back.

rnint said:

Guns are pretty common place and the police in mexico torture and kill people at times so I don't think thats the issue. And also thank the freaking lord nobody else shares your guys gun laws you have to be insane thinking giving everyone a gun makes for a safe environment when thousands of people around the states are dying from guns every year how the hell does that make people safe, especially in that kind of a society if literally everyone had guns that place would be a war zone.

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Yes, because all the criminals have the guns.

If everyone had a gun criminals would think twice before they did something. Why do we call the cops? Because they have guns.

there's two sides to every story. I do see your point of view.

I guess I am bias because I have lived in an area where most of the Mexicans are gang bangers.

MrStickyScissors said:

I'm saying it's natural to want to escape. And I don't blame them for doing what they gotta do. But don't blame someone else for doing what they have to do to stop it cause they don't want you hear. Have you heard of a civil war?

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Yeah I have heard of civil wars although I don't see how that applies at all in this case... But yeah I got what you meant before I'm just saying stop trying to tell me not to blame you because as someone whos probably going to vote for anyone that you think will stop the most immigration I'm saying yeah it is your place to take the blame, why the hell would it not be? Because we arent blaming the mexicans because they have a sensible reason for their actions for some reason now we cant blame you for wanting to stop them from helping their families live a decent life? You don't have to stop them coming in for shit thats a choice you and many other people in your country made, it doesnt have to happen at all and until relatively recently people could go wherever the hell the wanted and there werent any real problems with it either.

rnint said:

Yeah I have heard of civil wars although I don't see how that applies at all in this case... But yeah I got what you meant before I'm just saying stop trying to tell me not to blame you because as someone whos probably going to vote for anyone that you think will stop the most immigration I'm saying yeah it is your place to take the blame, why the hell would it not be? Because we arent blaming the mexicans because they have a sensible reason for their actions for some reason now we cant blame you for wanting to stop them from helping their families live a decent life? You don't have to stop them coming in for shit thats a choice you and many other people in your country made, it doesnt have to happen at all and until relatively recently people could go wherever the hell the wanted and there werent any real problems with it either.

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Things are just not the same as they used to be. You know that.

If it is really that bad in Mexico do you think we would want to just let anyone cross over here? So just let the problems of Mexico flood over to here because it's the humane thing to do?

MrStickyScissors said:

I guess I am bias because I have lived in an area where most of the Mexicans are gang bangers.

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I can understand that when you see people doing that shit all the time I can see how it makes you think they are all like that but trust me they arent, and if your country did a better job sorting the people who wanted to come in and work from the ones who get into gangs and shit you could really stand to benefit from then. For example what do you think you would do if you were in a place illegally, you had no money no home no car, who do you go for when you need help? You see by taking away their means of doing anything legally because just the act of being there is illegal you make it nearly impossible for them to get into any normal kind of life and many end up gang bangin as you say and just generally financing themselves through crime, because why not they are literally constantly committing a crime until they go back to mexico in america's eyes anyway and they can't get real jobs so easily because they are illegal.

MrStickyScissors said:

Yes, because all the criminals have the guns.

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So in a place like the UK then where exclusively police or criminals have guns (except hunting guns and then only with a license and that process is long and very thorough) we should be seeing more than 50-60 gun deaths a year? Comparing to the 32,000 that died in america in 2011(first year that came up on google) I think the no guns approach works better...

rnint said:

Guns are pretty common place and the police in mexico torture and kill people at times so I don't think thats the issue. And also thank the freaking lord nobody else shares your guys gun laws you have to be insane thinking giving everyone a gun makes for a safe environment when thousands of people around the states are dying from guns every year how the hell does that make people safe, especially in that kind of a society if literally everyone had guns that place would be a war zone.

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please back up your claims with statistics. I'm very familiar with Mexico's gun laws. Perhaps you've mistaken Mexico with some other land. The country I speak of has been a war zone where drug cartels turn people into soup and put them on public display.

the legally owned guns in Mexico are few and far between, but when they can be pooled together things like this happen:
http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-vigilantes-seize-town-arrest-police-033530439.html

From what I recall, the "tourists" that were shot at didn't stop for the checkpoint.

If it's a numbers game you want to play, ban salt, sugar, and automobiles. Guns can't hold a candle to those death statistics.

MrStickyScissors said:

If it is really that bad in Mexico do you think we would want to just let anyone cross over here? So just let the problems of Mexico flood over to here because it's the humane thing to do?

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It's a necessary thing to do. They are vital to our economy. They would even be more valuable if we made them legal

rnint said:

I can understand that when you see people doing that shit all the time I can see how it makes you think they are all like that but trust me they arent, and if your country did a better job sorting the people who wanted to come in and work from the ones who get into gangs and shit you could really stand to benefit from then. For example what do you think you would do if you were in a place illegally, you had no money no home no car, who do you go for when you need help? You see by taking away their means of doing anything legally because just the act of being there is illegal you make it nearly impossible for them to get into any normal kind of life and many end up gang bangin as you say and just generally financing themselves through crime, because why not they are literally constantly committing a crime until they go back to mexico in america's eyes anyway and they can't get real jobs so easily because they are illegal.

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Undocumented immigrants that make it to the US often want to go back to their original country to find work because they can't find legit work here (without the needed documents for form I-9), but they're afraid to leave and be caught.

We should stop mandating employers to use form I-9 in the first place.

rnint said:

So in a place like the UK then where exclusively police or criminals have guns (except hunting guns and then only with a license and that process is long and very thorough) we should be seeing more than 50-60 gun deaths a year? Comparing to the 32,000 that died in america in 2011(first year that came up on google) I think the no guns approach works better...

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If you compare general violent crime figures and not just gun homicide youll see people find ways to kill each other regardless.

Lots of people getting stabbed in the UK...so ban all knives?

Lord Kanti said:

please back up your claims with statistics. I'm very familiar with Mexico's gun laws. Perhaps you've mistaken Mexico with some other land. The country I speak of has been a war zone where drug cartels turn people into soup and put them on public display.

the legally owned guns in Mexico are few and far between, but when they can be pooled together things like this happen:
http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-vigilantes-seize-town-arrest-police-033530439.html

From what I recall, the "tourists" that were shot at didn't stop for the checkpoint.

If it's a numbers game you want to play, ban salt, sugar, and automobiles. Guns can't hold a candle to those death statistics.

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Ok first off mexico is not the best example for government control thats why all the cartels and stuff thrive so them banning things isnt the same as the states banning things, and also that whole situation is a ridiculously extreme circumstance I mean those people were pissed cos their local cops were clearly abusing their power, they clearly shouldnt be shooting at cars and stuff but I can understand how little they must trust people considering the fact that the people who are supposed to help them and enforce the law were doing just the opposite and were caught up in killing local people, I'm not excusing them but I am saying it wasn't a 'normal situation'. And mentioning some statistics doesn't mean I'm playing a numbers game, also they weren't wrong as far as I can see so unless you have some more reliable statistics I don't see why I should back up.

Harrekin said:

If you compare general violent crime figures and not just gun homicide youll see people find ways to kill each other regardless.

Lots of people getting stabbed in the UK...so ban all knives?

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They tried to stop people carrying them in public, but have you thought about how hard it is to stop people from carrying knives when literally every house has numerous knives as a general household necessity? It's not possible but on the other hand guns are relatively uncommon in the UK, and with guns being so rare we have only had 1 incident where 4 or more people were killed by someone with a gun who went on a killing spree since 2000 whereas america has had 133. Someone did a study on just the "mass shootings" in america compared to another 10 countries (heres a link to an article that references and shows you a table with the stats from the study ) and america had 487 deaths as opposed to the other 9 countries combined 200 and that includes china so were talking a lot more people than the population of the states. I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all anywhere else but its a lot less common. And I don't know what you're talking about but america also has considerably higher homicide rates than all the other developed countries, like 4 times that of the UK, France or China.

Mexico isn't a 'normal situation'. It's a nation with government tolerated terrorism that feeds off its own citizens and geopolitical partners. The Mexican government keeps Mexican citizens' hands tied behind their backs by crippling them from being able to legally defend themselves. The Mexican government has trained these cartel terrorists and refuses to rein them in. When these narco terrorists are occasionally brought in, there is no death row waiting for them and their atrocities. They get to relax and wait for the next chopper lift or bribe to be released so they can pick up where they started.

you lambast gun deaths with generalized and sensationalized uncited statistics as if the numbers speak for themselves. If that were the case, then personal vehicles and many foods should be banned long before guns.

Why do citizens deserve to operate a personal vehicle? There is no amendment saying they have the right, and cars have killed quite a bit more than guns have. Or what about the contributing factors to automobile accidents? Do you propose we ban alcohol and senior citizens? Alcohol and licensure is regulated, yet still impaired drivers continue to endanger the populace.

Mandatory gun ownership helped Kenesaw prosper, why do you suppose that? Why don't Mexican citizens deserve the right to defend themselves against tyranny? Are narco terrorists and cartels not tyrants? Why is it the USA's responsibility to fix Mexico when Mexico refuses to help itself? Do you offer any real insight, or is your only argument that guns are bad/scary?

https://guncontroltruth.wordpress.com/2013/01/10/case-study-morton-grove-illinois-v-kennesaw-georgia/