DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

AZherbalist420

AZherbalist420

Member
Been tryin to experiment with DWC because a friend of mine is doing so and having good results. I been tryin to start em in small 3gal buckets then eventually move em to a larger res for flower. Somehow I always seem to get brown slime. Could it be the small bucket needs to be changed out more often? I been doin so bout every week. The plant still looks good but the roots look real thin and dark brown. After a recent res change I noticed they lightened up a bit and still see new roots pushing thru the sides of net pot. But even the new roots look weak and already tinted brown. Last time when I moved 1 into flower the whole room started to stink like rotting garbage. I read to add either H2o2 or something like Hygrozyme which now I read isn't a good idea. It did help the smell and the res went from stinky and cloudy to clean & clear again. But alot of the leaves started to dry up & wilt and overall the plant looked unhealthy along with the roots. I decided to pull it from flower after it was only there a week or two. The only time I completed a plant using DWC the root system and the plants never seemed to take off like I have seen other peoples do. The plants pretty much remained the same size from when they entered flower and produced very little. That is why I made the decision to pull the last one instead of wasting more nutes for a poor harvest. If my current plant has been vegging for about 3 weeks and has slime is it too late to fix. Like I said plant looks healthy just brown slime on roots. How do U suggetst using H202 to clean roots. And if I havent made a tea yet is there something I can do now to prevent further probs. Will be gettin stuff to try tea soon.

..OH yea all I was running in RO H20 : Cal Mag, Foxfarm Grow Big 4 hydro, and a lil Floralicious. PPMs around 600 / PH 5.8
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
budherder said:
Thanks heis. Are you only doing two or 3 rounds with your stones cuZ they start to deteriorate or cuz the chance of contamination?
Click to expand...
Boiling will kill anything you have to worry about, but after months of use the stones fall apart, or get stepped on, or the nipple breaks, ect.

budherder said:
Should I rid the plant of the infected roots? Also I noticed when depotting some
Plants that I have given up on. no air so no water splashing. When I pulled them I saw new fuzzy roots coming from the core of the rootball and stem. All the other roots had died or dryed from no water.

What are your thoughts about letting the pots dry for a day or two? I know it sounds risky. im just posting what I saw. I checked several. They were sitting out of the light off to the side and temps are lower 70's. the root cube was moist but the hydroton rocks were not. I haven't seen any new root growth anywhere else! Only on these deep parts around the rooting cube I originally used to clone them in.
Should I expect the plants I'm treating have the same roots? Or is it just the ones that dried out? I may have to sacrifice one to find out...
Click to expand...
Slime does not thrive in air which is why slime is mostly a DWC problem. Just getting the roots out of infected water will allow them to grow, but you don't want them to dry out. This is why some people switch to ebb and flow when they get slimed.

You want to remove dead and mushy or stinky roots, which should come off with a vigorous spraying and slight tug. Once the bennies begin to take over you will first see tiny new root shoots coming from the mass.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
big liverski said:
I just switched over to flower and added the tea to the res. I will be adding nutes tomorrow morning. I bought a green planet take it and go package. For flowering it includes liquid w8. I have researched everything I am putting in my res and liquid w8 claims to contain organic enzymes. I assume I should not use this?
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If your res is thriving with bennies it will tolerate a small amount of organic material. You can try it on a test bucket and see. If you get slimed you know how to take care of the problem quickly. ;)
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
AZherbalist420 said:
Been tryin to experiment with DWC because a friend of mine is doing so and having good results. I been tryin to start em in small 3gal buckets then eventually move em to a larger res for flower. Somehow I always seem to get brown slime. Could it be the small bucket needs to be changed out more often? I been doin so bout every week. The plant still looks good but the roots look real thin and dark brown. After a recent res change I noticed they lightened up a bit and still see new roots pushing thru the sides of net pot. But even the new roots look weak and already tinted brown. Last time when I moved 1 into flower the whole room started to stink like rotting garbage. I read to add either H2o2 or something like Hygrozyme which now I read isn't a good idea. It did help the smell and the res went from stinky and cloudy to clean & clear again. But alot of the leaves started to dry up & wilt and overall the plant looked unhealthy along with the roots. I decided to pull it from flower after it was only there a week or two. The only time I completed a plant using DWC the root system and the plants never seemed to take off like I have seen other peoples do. The plants pretty much remained the same size from when they entered flower and produced very little. That is why I made the decision to pull the last one instead of wasting more nutes for a poor harvest. If my current plant has been vegging for about 3 weeks and has slime is it too late to fix. Like I said plant looks healthy just brown slime on roots. How do U suggetst using H202 to clean roots. And if I havent made a tea yet is there something I can do now to prevent further probs. Will be gettin stuff to try tea soon.

..OH yea all I was running in RO H20 : Cal Mag, Foxfarm Grow Big 4 hydro, and a lil Floralicious. PPMs around 600 / PH 5.8
Click to expand...
I do not recommend using h202 as I have found it prolongs the recovery time of my roots. Just rinse the roots well and add tea. Use a simple nute schedule, very basic, until you get things under control and then add what you think you need one by one.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
big liverski said:
thanks Heisenberg- are mosquito dunks compatible with the tea- seems my healthy roots have attracted fungus gnats.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. The mycogrow soluble contains a little of the same bacteria as in the dunks, but add a half dunk to the res for a boost. You can add them to the tea during the brew if you like. I have found adding sticky yellow traps around the room to kill adult females also helps a lot.
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
First post here.

Heis', Thankyou for all of this. I've been battling the slime now for 8 months and gotten nowhere. I wish i had found this tread earlier as i've wasted a lot of time and money. I read the whole thing maybe 3 times now and have found your information invaluable. Your extensive research and consistently helpful attitude is a blessing.

My setup:
hybrid Aero/NFT 4in pvc 2in net cup
1000G/H pump
15 plants - 10 gal res (normally 20) changing res so often i dropped it to 10
switched nutes from Botanicare to Dutch Master Gold

oldest group (not counting mothers) is 2 months old in veg but only developed to what a 2 week healthy plant should look like

My first and second batch of tea i used:
2 Gallons RO UV water
2 handfuls EWC
30ml Aquashield (likely almost 2 years old.)
1 TBSP Brown Sugar (didn't have molasses)
after 24 hrs added 1 TBSP Molasses
(second batch only used Molasses from beginning)

I would blast the roots with tap water and soak in diluted H2O2 for 20 minutes while bleach cleaning res' and pvc tubes
Fresh Res no nutes... added 1gal of tea to 10 gal res' . I also added same ratio to my mothers and another younger group.

With this first batch i was blown away how quickly everything cleared up, new root growth just exploded and beautiful lush green foliage almost over night. Pure godsend after fruitlessly battling and draining my pockets for nearly 8 months. I know the tea works. Unfortunately it didn't stick. The slime quickly returned to both veg groups, new root growth stopped and plants started to suffer. I figure as you've stated, that this is because of a lack of medium to inhabit. (lava rock hyroton etc.) for undeveloped root systems. Confirming this, my mothers who have a greater root mass and are situated in 4in netpots with rocks have remained healthy and vigorous.

My second batch of tea i used
3 Gallons RO UV water
3 Cups Ancient Forest
30ml AquaShield
1 TSP Myco Madness
1 TBSP Molasses

Using this batch had no possitive effect on the plants although they may have been overly stressed from the now weekly H2O2 bath. also as i did not see the immediate results like the first time i didn't allow them to run there corse.. the slime seemed to come back almost immediately.

I changed res again only having given them maybe 48 hrs ... another H2O2 bath and a fresh Gal/10Gal tea/res'

I wasn't initially using an air pump as i figured the water falls into my res' and the 15 sprayers were probably oxygenating the water well enough, however i have since added a 7watt 4 hose air pump. Also I was running the sprayers 24/7 and have since changed to a 15min on 60min off. My thinking there is, you mentioned slime doesn't give as much problem in a system where the roots have contact with air like an ebb and flow.

My last tea inoculation i added rocks (sry, can't remember what they're called, "these rocks don't roll" was there slogan, something like that anyway.) within 24hrs the water smells similar to sweaty gym socks and dark brown/deep green slime is covering everything this was before i switched from 24hr water pump. since then (now 24 hrs) i changed to the 15 on 60 off setting and have notice a marked improvement in the root color and water clarity. I've also been adding 1 cup tea every day (now day3)

Sry this post is so long winded and jumbled.

so my QUESTION is :

#1
at this point all my plants are wilted 1 or 2 i'd say are dead. I would guess the roots are not drinking/feeding. Would it be wise to foliar feed them in such a fragile state and if so at what rate? I've given them 1 spray of Liquid Light / Penetrator (saturatetor) 3 days ago. follow general directions you would foliar feed every 3 days but what do you do when they are not getting any nutrients from the water and are terribly wilted.

my res is currently 10 gal - 50ml DMGold A / 50ml DMGold B
foliar spray is 1 Liter - 30ml LL / 60ml Pen

#2
if after only 24hr from new res you have sweaty gymsock smell do you roll another res? or add more tea? or...?

final note on gymsocks:
with this last res i switched to 15min on 60 mins off for sprayers... and had no air pump for 12 hours or so... im guessing this could have killed all the bennies... since then i have re added the air pump and re added more tea.

sry everyone who actually read all that. This is my first post here, or anywhere really. please berate at your leisure.

-Enkidu
 
C

Chopsticks33

Active Member
if it smell like feet change it. did you remove all the brown dead root? what kinda medium you use? light leak thru hydroton? try to use 1/4 nute with 1 cup tea per gal until root look better. add tea every 2 days. air pump 24hr, 2 watt per gallon. i read somewhere in this thread that high pressure spray can kill bennie. water temp not over 76-78max.
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
I sprayed the roots pretty rough with tap water. This strips them pretty clean. I don't pull or tug on any though, many of the roots just fall off with the spray.

I don't use any medium. From clone they are in a 2 in neoprene or EZClone disk. I then put the disk in a 2 in netpot and net pot in 2 in hole i cut into 4 in pvc pipe that drains into giant tote. pump sprayers are within a half inch of each net pot (15 total)(ill put up some photo this evening after work) I don't think there is a single light leak. pvc is painted black then white .. tote, the same (black then white). If there is anywhere light could get in its between the spacing of the lid for the tote but i dought it.

as far as 1/4 nute strength that is hard to determine. there 2 months old but only developed to about 2 weeks. I'm guessing i should be using 1/4 the 2 week strength not 1/4 the 2 month strength.

the gym sock smell has changed a bit since i last added tea... its still there but its more a gym sock covered in moss, (bad and good) but the res floor is covered in brown debris pump filter as well... roots are covered in an almost granular snot ... its still smooth and liquidy but it looks like a bunch of brown debris held in a brownish clear snot... (not white)... i suppose this is still the same slime. I just remember is being more consistent in texture.

at any rate I've got a new batch of tea ready and i'll swap it out after work tonight.

3Gal RO UV water
30ml Aquashield (2 years old)
2cups AF
1cup EWC
1/2 TSP Myco Madness
1 1/2 TBSP Molasses

reading some other posts i feel like im puting too much AF and EWC in the mix.

yeah i remember seeing the highpressure comment also... what classifies 'high pressure though' is 1000GPH on 15 1/4in lines with 360 EZClone nozzles too much... I don't know. Perhaps since all these girls have long enough roots that they lay on the bottom of the pvc pipes i should remove the nozzles and operate as a purely NFT. worth a try.

Water temps are staying around 73-76. I was chilling down to 68 with no benefit so i upped it to 73 still no benefit so i removed the chiller entirely.
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
  • some very unhappy girls
  • The gymsock smell is nearly gone. Still no new root development though.
  • I'm going to proceed with wash and new incoculation
  • Question should i leave the rocks in the res after washing them off or given that the res is infected with slime and its covering all the rocks as well should i take them out. Initially i brewed the rocks in the tea before i added them to the res but it didn't seem to help... Im sure i did a number of other things wrong though.
 
C

Chopsticks33

Active Member
wash your system again and cover top each net pot with a white poly plastic. Same thing happen to me fixed it by covering each pot. those girls lookin pretty dead. u might need to start new
 
Enkidu

Enkidu

Member
Washed roots last night and added tea. Already this morning (10hrs later) at least one plant is producing new white roots. I foliar fed with LL/Pen and was going to wait 24hr before adding nutrients (DMgold) .. I decided to leave the rocks in the res. not sure if this is a good idea or not but we'll see. I definitely think i need more area of inhabitation and didn't brew this latest batch with any media so i elected to keep them in the res.

as for the white poly , i don't think this would help in my situation. there's no way light is getting through the 3/4" neoprene disks nor the pvc. The tote that houses my mothers has 4" netpots with rocks and is covered by black painted rubber/plastic? (whatever the tote is made of) It might aid somewhat here but it would be negligible. My problem surely is something else.

I removed all the spray nozzles to rule out that "high pressure sprayers" was killing the bennies. so far most everything is within an in of death but some hope now with seeing the new white roots.

Its a little early to say but it seems the EWC are a crucial component in the effectiveness of my teas. the batches i've brewed without it didn't have any positive responses. I would not say conclusively though because i've changed a lot throughout these trials and made some mistakes along the way.

About the rocks. I couldn't remember the name but i looked them up. heres a link from sunleaves. http://www.sunleaves.com/detail.asp?sku=SR313
 
C

Chopsticks33

Active Member
go to page 219. I had the same problem. I didnt believe i had light leak also but it was light leak thru my lids of the pot and thru my hydroton. It was just a small light leak but thru 20+ pots. the light hit the root first thats why its growing brown alge on the roots. It might be something different on your case.
 
IMAVEG

IMAVEG

Active Member
I run jungle juice nutes-i add epsom salts-superthrive and i have slime and black stuff in the pipes. ebb and flow with hydroton-the plants look good but i am fighting the slime. I have a great tea brewer tank i made-with an awesome air pump and air stones-just unclear as how to use it. I have zho-ancient forest and aquashield-panty hose so i think i have everything. How long does it last i have 4 res's and can use it in all 4 (2 in flower and 2 in veg) i can make up to 15 gallons. what should i do-I just dumped and flushed the affected tank it was nasty.
 
B

B.B. King

Member
I just wanted to pop in & report what condition my condition is in, and ask a new question (for me at least, please forgive me if it's already been discussed; I've only read about 150 pages of this awesome thread). I'd say I'm about 95% out of the woods with my root issues. Apart from becoming a religious user of the tea, I've done a few other tweaks, in order of apparent effectiveness; 1. Added non-ionic surfactant to the reservoirs. I only gave them a couple of doses, a couple of weeks apart. The tea was saving my garden for sure, but the roots weren't free from the shit. After a couple of runs w/ surfactant, nothing but beautiful roots (coated here and there with what I perceived to be too much bennies, since I was blasting them w/ the 1:16 rate every 4 days for over a month). I quit using the surfactant once things cleared up, because I read that It messes w/ the colonization of bennies, but doesn't other wise much mess with them. 2. Improved light blockage. 3. Added ass loads of air in each bucket. Everything's on an even keel now, but I read some time ago about Bacillus Subtilis GB03. Apparently, it's a patented strain of bacteria that is supposed to kick some serious ass on root disease. I did a search for it, but couldn't find any commercial outlets. Recently, I was turned on to a product called Companion Biological Fungicide. I just got a gallon of the liquid form, and I'm not sure if it'd be better to brew it in the tea, or to put it straight into the res. like it says in the directions. It smells like it has a lot of carbs in it. Probably best to brew it in the tea? Also, I've read a bit about foliar feeding bennies for added resistance to pathogens, insects (specifically, the dreaded spider mite!), etc. I can't find any info. w/ much credulity. Does anyone here have any experience or info.? Grow well, B.B.
 
B

B.B. King

Member
IMAVEG said:
I run jungle juice nutes-i add epsom salts-superthrive and i have slime and black stuff in the pipes. ebb and flow with hydroton-the plants look good but i am fighting the slime. I have a great tea brewer tank i made-with an awesome air pump and air stones-just unclear as how to use it. I have zho-ancient forest and aquashield-panty hose so i think i have everything. How long does it last i have 4 res's and can use it in all 4 (2 in flower and 2 in veg) i can make up to 15 gallons. what should i do-I just dumped and flushed the affected tank it was nasty.
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I don't know if jungle juice is organic, but the superthrive is definitely not good in your res., as with any organics, when battling root rot. Brew that tea for 48 Hrs. and get it into your system. Keep adding 1 cup/ gallon, every 3-4 days until things start to turn around. Then back off to 1 cup/ 10 gallons, every 3-4 days. Brewing each batch fresh is best, but it will last a few days in the fridge without a lid, so it can get fresh O2. I do one thing or the other every-other day. Brew 1 day, serve it to me ladies 48 hrs. later, brew again 48 hrs. after that, etc. Be sure nothing organic goes in your res. Grow well, B.B.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
B.B. King said:
I just wanted to pop in & report what condition my condition is in, and ask a new question (for me at least, please forgive me if it's already been discussed; I've only read about 150 pages of this awesome thread). I'd say I'm about 95% out of the woods with my root issues. Apart from becoming a religious user of the tea, I've done a few other tweaks, in order of apparent effectiveness; 1. Added non-ionic surfactant to the reservoirs. I only gave them a couple of doses, a couple of weeks apart. The tea was saving my garden for sure, but the roots weren't free from the shit. After a couple of runs w/ surfactant, nothing but beautiful roots (coated here and there with what I perceived to be too much bennies, since I was blasting them w/ the 1:16 rate every 4 days for over a month). I quit using the surfactant once things cleared up, because I read that It messes w/ the colonization of bennies, but doesn't other wise much mess with them. 2. Improved light blockage. 3. Added ass loads of air in each bucket. Everything's on an even keel now, but I read some time ago about Bacillus Subtillus GB103. Apparently, it's a patented strain of bacteria that is supposed to kick some serious ass on root disease. I did a search for it, but couldn't find any commercial outlets. Recently, I was turned on to a product called Companion Biological Fungicide. I just got a gallon of the liquid form, and I'm not sure if it'd be better to brew it in the tea, or to put it straight into the res. like it says in the directions. It smells like it has a lot of carbs in it. Probably best to brew it in the tea? Also, I've read a bit about foliar feeding bennies for added resistance to pathogens, insects (specifically, the dreaded spider mite!), etc. I can't find any info. w/ much credulity. Does anyone here have any experience or info.? Grow well, B.B.
Click to expand...
I would brew the companion in the tea. Foliar spraying with tea will help reduce powdery mildew and other infections, but it will have limited effect on mites and bugs indoors because the bugs generally have no other plants to choose from. It's better to correct the environmental conditions which favor mildew IMO.
 
GreenDyl

GreenDyl

Active Member
So I've been doing a tweeked version of this tea for like 6 weeks now instead of adding zho ive been using great white. Got rid of the slime and what not but now I am in flowering and the tea always smells good but then like 2 days after i add it to my Ebb and Grow 12 site 55 gallon rez with 3 airstones it ends up smelling like shit. There is also a bunch of floaties in my water but the plants are doing good and I will post pics. What I am wondering is if it would be a smart option to try this next rez change without the tea because it is making my whole bedroom smell like shit kinda. I've heard that the tea doesn't work well in blooming phase because of the bloom nutes. Im running Sensi A and B, Big Bud, CalMag+, sensizyme, bud candy, and pro tekt. Lemme know what you guys think cause the smell is stinking up like my whole upstairs like not a good smell at all.
 
Olympus Mons

Olympus Mons

Well-Known Member
GreenDyl said:
So I've been doing a tweeked version of this tea for like 6 weeks now instead of adding zho ive been using great white. Got rid of the slime and what not but now I am in flowering and the tea always smells good but then like 2 days after i add it to my Ebb and Grow 12 site 55 gallon rez with 3 airstones it ends up smelling like shit. There is also a bunch of floaties in my water but the plants are doing good and I will post pics. What I am wondering is if it would be a smart option to try this next rez change without the tea because it is making my whole bedroom smell like shit kinda. I've heard that the tea doesn't work well in blooming phase because of the bloom nutes. Im running Sensi A and B, Big Bud, CalMag+, sensizyme, bud candy, and pro tekt. Lemme know what you guys think cause the smell is stinking up like my whole upstairs like not a good smell at all.
Click to expand...

Have you read this entire thread? Avoid enzyme products. That is where you're getting the slime. This tea is meant to be used with the Lucas formula. No organics of any kind should be used. I would not use the Bud Candy either.
 
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