DWC Root Slime Cure aka How to Breed Beneficial Microbes

257BudHunter said:

Greetings Heisenberg !

Now with the liberal application of the tea my plants look healthy again, my interest in growing has renewed energy and commitment.
I too am using Dutch Master Gold Nutes (A&B + Add27). I am at week 3 in a flower cycle. 600w HPS. You previously mentioned that you use the Liquid Light product; What are your thoughts on adding LL at this point ?
257BudHunter

PS: THANKS AGAIN !

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Very glad to hear the tea helped you. I too was glad to get back to productive gardening after so many set backs; makes you feel like a failure even when you've been following all the directions correctly. The rule with liquid light is to stop using it after the buds form, which is at about 3-4 weeks, unless you have excellent air flow. If you are confident that you will not get bud rot you can keep spraying them up until about 3 weeks before harvest. Note that just having good exhaust is not enough, you have to have really good air flow above, below and among the plants. After crystals form it's important to raise or turn off the main light until the plants dry.

NaturesMed said:

Greetings Heisenberg!

First off I would like to thank you for being the one to share these amazing pieces of knowledge with me, it has helped immensely!
I know you said you currently have limited internet access, but whenever you get the time I have a few more tea questions:

1) I just received some Mycogrow to try for the first time instead of the Zho/Aquashield. What sort of application rate do you use with the Mycogrow for a 2 gallon brew?

2) Is it possible to use too much tea? I have been using 2-3 times the normal 1 cup/gal to try and fight off bad disease. Want to make sure this isn’t actually hurting the situation. ..

3) Do you have any suggestions for using the tea in an ebb and flow system? I know you said to make sure there is an air stone in the main res. Would you suggest a different application rate or schedule?

4) And finally a question about how you know when the tea is done brewing. It seems that the speed of brewing varies greatly with the amount of air pumped through the brew and the temperature of the brew. Which leads me to question when is it at its prime condition? The smell seems to progress from sweet molasses, to dull and almost no smell, to kind of an earthy smell, and then kind of swampy. The appearance progresses from clear with a molasses color tint, to a cloudy mustard color, and after that it looks like some of the cultured coating of stuff that has formed on the sides of the bucket starts to come off in small chunks and float around in the water, then it starts turning browner from the mustard color. So… any suggestions or experiences on the best time to use it?

Thanks for all your help!
Nmed

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If you have a scoop from the ZHO, I use about 2-3 from the small side, so not very much at all. Too much tea will never burn the plants, but too much fungi can cause a slimy coating. I have never had this happen so I am not sure how harmful that particular slime is, but i've read it is not much of a problem. Rather than increasing the amount any more, try playing around with the application rate. Perhaps you need a little every day, or perhaps you are overdoing it and holding off a bit might help. If you are in ebb and flow and have root problems then I wonder if you have other issues besides slime spores. The amount used in an ebb and flow is the same, 1 cup per gallon to fight disease, 2-3 cups per 10gal to prevent disease. Top off sensibly. My tea looks slightly different each time it's done. The only indications I use any more to tell me it's done is the clock. In general, I like to get it after it's had the earthy smell for a while and just before it get's a little swampy. But I have learned, swampy is okay, thick bio-film is okay, even an air stone covered in snot is okay, as long as you make and apply the tea as directed. If you kept the DO levels high the entire brew then you should never have anerobic microbes thriving, which are the ones that tend to cause problems. Brewing it longer or shorter just messes with the diversity, as does the amount and type of food.

mr.bond said:

Hi Heisenberg,

I don't mean to put a burden on you with more questions, but I don't recall you discussing this in the past. I'm about to switch to flower, and I'm looking for a little advice on nute usage. I'm planning on using AN Connoisseur A&B nutes for flower, but I'd also like to use Botanicare Sweet (Raw) if possible. I hear it helps with the transition to flower, reduces stretching during early flowering, and also helps provide flavor and scent enhancement for the buds. I'm also going to be supplementing with Snow Storm Ultra.

I believe my slime has subsided for now. I do still have the dark brown residue or dead slime or whatever it is in the roots that aren't newly grown. I have tried to stay current on keeping the EWC tea topped-up as needed. Last update you told me to hold off on the Sweet for now. It wasn't really necessary during veg anyway, but flowering is just around the corner. My questions are:

- If I add the Sweet during the transition/flowering phase, will the slime explode back into the rez from its dark brown residue/dead slime?

- With the tea in use, if I add Sweet directly to the rez like my other nutes, will it promote excessive microbe growth? Or will it foster in the return of the slime? I know it has been discussed not to try and breed the tea directly in the rez. But the tea will already have been bred seperately, and added into this 'Sweet'ened rez.

- If I use the Sweet as the sugar base for the tea instead of molasses, will the Sweet still be useful to the plant when I add it in as part of the tea? Or will the microbes/bennies eat all the sugar before it gets in the rez?

- Finally, would you recommend I use the Snow Storm as a foliar, or as a nute supplement in the rez? Is doing both overkill?

Let me know when you can. I understand you don't have the best net connection right now. I think I speak for everyone here when I tell you how much I appreciate your time and patience in sharing your wealth of knowledge. Perhaps one day I can buy you a beer? lol

Mr. Bond

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I wouldn't worry about the brown splotches being a source of more slime troubles, however depending on the tenaciousness of your infection adding sweet may be a concern. My mentor did just what you are pondering; he added any bud sweeteners or carbo load directly to the tea. If the product is already in a form available to the roots, then the microbes shouldn't touch it. If not, then the microbes will haply process it for you. I suspect though that things will be okay if you want to add it directly to the res provided you haven't seen the slime, the plants are healthy, and the root system is robust. Again, a res that isn't currently infected with the slime is likely to be much more forgiving. Of course I am a skeptic of sweeteners in general. I believe sugars are better supplied through foliar spraying, and that taste is best left up to good genetics. The creator of snow storm states that it is most effective as a spray. If you want to also use it in the res add no more than 2ml per gallon after you see crystal production begin.

tysen said:

Heisenberg I have a question about your foliar spray. Do you use the tea when you run saturator + liquid light? What else do you use in your foliar spray? any nutrients? thanks for all this great info.

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The only time I use the tea as a foliar spray is with clones. It helps a great deal if your clones are prone to mildew or mold. When I do spray the tea, I do not use Saturator with it. I want the microbes to remain on the surface. When I use LL + Saturator I use it alone. When I spray snow storm I use Saturator at the same rate as directed with LL.

Thanks for that. Do you ever foliar with anything else? never base nutrients or cal/mag?

Also how are you dealing with powdery mildew? Do you have any knowledge about the product Eagle 20?

tysen said:

Also how are you dealing with powdery mildew? Do you have any knowledge about the product Eagle 20?

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The only time someone would need to spray with nutes or calmag is to help correct a deficiency. To be honest, my plants have not shown deficiency problems since I switched to dutch master. IMO LL+ Sat is all you need; even snow storm is optional. I do not use snow storm on my cheese strain because it already has a carpeting of crystals.

If you have a problem with mold or mildew then it's best to address the cause, which is normally due to incorrect environment conditions. The tea can be sprayed on plants at any time and offers very good protection from PM. Eagle 20 is systemic so it could not be used with the tea. If you wanted to use a chemical sterilizer on the foliage in addition to using the tea, go with DM Zone or Physan 20, and be careful not to let it drip into the res.

On the coast its pretty difficult to combat all the environmental conditions that cause PM. Even with dehumidifiers in every room this is simply the environment PM thrives in. If i already have PM on a plant in veg would it be wise to kill it systemically with eagle 20 and then switch to benes once the PM is gone? Or is it just as affective to run benes and spray with DM zone? I have used DM zone before and it just seemed to suppress the powdery not outright cure it.

Could you explain how eagle 20 acts differently then DM zone as a foliar spray? I assume this is the reason you dont need to use saturator with eagle20?

tysen said:

On the coast its pretty difficult to combat all the environmental conditions that cause PM. Even with dehumidifiers in every room this is simply the environment PM thrives in. If i already have PM on a plant in veg would it be wise to kill it systemically with eagle 20 and then switch to benes once the PM is gone? Or is it just as affective to run benes and spray with DM zone? I have used DM zone before and it just seemed to suppress the powdery not outright cure it.

Could you explain how eagle 20 acts differently then DM zone as a foliar spray? I assume this is the reason you dont need to use saturator with eagle20?

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I apologize that my current internet situation doesn't allow me to do much research. It looks as if Eagle 20 actually enters the plant and acts along side the immune system, to put it in simply. I assume this would also discourage root fungus. You may want to email the manufacturer and ask if the product will interfere with mycorrhizal fungi. If it doesn't, then you can use it along side the tea.

Indecently, you wouldn't use Saturator with Zone either. You are correct, Zone kills current PM and suppresses it for a few days, but daily applications are needed to get real control. Sounds like your PM problem is pretty resilient. Physan 20 would probably work better but it's not recommended for late flowering.

Are you currently using tea in your res? The tea will induce some natural pathogen resistance in the plant. I would suggest that you hit it with a strong dose of zone and then start spraying with tea 6 hours later. Spray it again about 12 hours later, and then every two days. Make sure you are getting trichoderma fungi in the tea. For me, just as with the slime, bennies were a magic bullet for leaf fungus. I can not say how effective it would be for a case of tenacious PM, but I would be pretty confident. I would also stop other foliar sprays until you get it under control. Please let us know how things turn out.

ClosetSafe said:

Heisenberg, thanks for the great article.

Mind if I ask your opinion on the recipe above? It's from a current magazine article.

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I didn't skip your post. I wanted to take some time to research. One question I have been having lately is how to make the tea have dominate fungi or bacteria. So I found these recipes interesting. The most important factor is the type of compost used. Worm castings or vemicompost tends to have more bacteria, while forest humus tends to have more fungi. Ancient Forrest combines both types which is why is has such diversity.

The only type of food we need to make a tea for disease fighting purposes is molasses. Other types of foods could be added but for different reasons than just feeding the microbes.

There are many reason to use kelp in a tea, but none of them really have anything to do with the microbes themselves. For a plant's benefit, kelp is best applied as a spray. One thing it could do in your res is encourage the roots to exude more carbons for the rhizoplane to feed on.

Yucca extract is something that could help the disease fighting qualities of our tea. For one, it has been shown to have a stimulating effect on roots while at the same time suppresses pathogenic fungi. Also, it acts like a surfactant, or detergent. In other words, it helps water be wetter, which will help to soften up spores and make them more likely to germinate. It's also organic, so another source of food for the micorbes.

Another factor to keep in mind if you want a fungi dominate tea is the P levels. Anything over 70ppm begins putting mycorrhizal fungi to 'sleep'. ( So yes, as you get further into bud, you lose fungal mass in your res.)

Heres a few more recipes i dug up and info on brewing fungal vrs bacterial tea.

Mother Mary's Tea Recipes

* The measurments below are for a one gallon tea bubbler.When making teas in smaller containers,simply adjust the recipe or dilute the final tea with water.

* In these recipes,brew the tea with an airstone in a one gallon container for 24 to 48 hours.When you're done brewing,strain it through a nylon stocking (for topical/sprayer applications) or a standard strainer (for normal watering applications) and cut it 50/50 using dechlorinated water.

* Fungi-dominant tea compost should be mixed together and kept very wet for three to seven days prior to brewing.Store it high in a room,near the ceiling and in the dark.The microlife and fungi populations will really bloom if you place a heating pad-set to low-below the container (shoot for 68-75 degrees fahrenheit;20-24 degrees celsius).After three days,it will be visibly booming with fungus (what I call "Santa's Beard").Put this in your tea brewer and bubble it (in place of regular compost).

* Prepare for the container to foam up and bubble over.You should place a tray under your tea bubbler and avoid any electrical or other items that may be damaged or unsafe around the bubbling water.



Vegetative Stage Recipe

* One Gallon Water *: R/O water,rain water,distilled etc. etc.

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured)1-0-5)*:
Be sure to use only the unsulfured variety.This is because sulfur kills microlife,especially fungus (unless it's elemental sulfur in small ratios).

* One Teaspoon liquid Alaskan Fish Fertilizer (5-1-1)*:
Fungus and bacteria both love fish ferts and go nuts reproducing when it's included.

* One Cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or good outdoor compost*:
Vermicompost provides humates,enzymes,protozoa,nematodes,bacteria,fungus ,trace elements,secondary and primary nutrients.

* One Taspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).






Flowering Stage Recipes

* One Teaspoon Black Strap Molasses (unsulfured) (1-0-5) *:
An excellent source of potassium during flowering;bacteria prefer these simple sugars,whereas the fungus prefer more complex sugars derived from various organic matter.

* One Teaspoon Fox Farms Peace Of Mind All Purpose (5-5-5) *:
Food for the microlife that balances the pH of the tea (to about 6.5-7.2).

* One Teaspoon High Phosphorous Bat Guano (0-4-0) *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* One cup Earthworm Castings (vermicompost) or regular compost *:
Good balance of nutrient (trace and secondary).Also a source for microbes and beneficial elements.

* One teaspoon Maxicrop liquid or 1/2 teaspoon water soluble Maxicrop or kelp/seaweed extract (dry) *:
A fungal favorite,this is a key tea ingredient that produces a good ratio of happy fungus.It's also booming with trace elements,some nitrogen,and some potassium.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source for phosphorous,magnesium & sulfur.




Fungus Dominant (halfway through flowering) Recipes

* 1/2 cup Earthworm Castings *:
See above.

* 1/2 cup Mushroom Compost *:
This is fungus waiting to happen.A rich source of fungal spores and dense organic matter that fungi like to eat.

* Two tablespoons Powdered,100% Natural rolled oats *:
Fungi love this nutrient and will deliver it to the plant roots.

* Two teaspoons Kelp Meal *:
I use kelp meal for several reasons.It's organic matter that fungi like to attach themselves to.Fungi love kelp extracts as a primary food source and the rich trace elements and potassium it introduces.

* 1/4 teaspoon Micronized (soft) Rock Phosphate *:
Fungus attach to the rock phosphate and grow on it.Also a prime source of phosphorous,magnesium and sulfur.


The earthworm castings,mushroom compost,oatmeal,and kelp meal are first mixed together and made very wet.After fungus has grown on this blend,place it in your tea bubbler for 24 hours with some additional liquid (or water soluble) kelp/seaweed extract and Micronized (soft) rock phosphate.

Keep in mind that to fight slime we want to keep our tea recipe simple. Afterall, mycorrhizal fungi themselves do not breed or even germinate in the tea. The few days they spend in the tea serves to soften them up and make them prefect for root inoculation. Other types of fungi develop in the tea, but mycorrhizal and trichoderma are what really protect the roots.

I dont run DWC so I dont have to worry about the slime. Im actually becoming interested in the teas for an outdoor project as well so trying to cross apply this information to multiple setups.

Thought you guys might be interested in this. A guy on another forum decided to make a bio filter to contain the beneficial bacteria for the RDWC system.

blah cant figure out how to attach because its too big of a file. heres a link that might not last long

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f95...al-breeding-ground-32870/?posted=1#post574439

heisenburg, thats real interesting reading, very well done, i need to come back n take notes, forgot most of it already...lol

tysen said:

Thought you guys might be interested in this. A guy on another forum decided to make a bio filter to contain the beneficial bacteria for the RDWC system.

blah cant figure out how to attach because its too big of a file. heres a link that might not last long

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f95...al-breeding-ground-32870/?posted=1#post574439

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Yep I mention these a few pages back. I think these are well suited for RDWC or ebb and flow, but for individual DWC buckets it would be a lot of work. I do love the innovation and creativity behind it though. It would eliminate the need for constant inoculations for most microbes, however as I said before, mycorrhizal fungi will not breed in the filter. In actuality, mycorrhizal fungi will not germinate until they find root surface, and will never multiply in any aquatic environment.

I am currently exploring another way microbes can benefit our gardens. It's well known that yeast microbes are good producers of Co2, but the materials are so costly it's not really worth the effort. Medimary gave me the idea of using the practice of bokashi to compost kitchen scraps. Bokashi uses microbes which do not produce odor, so we wouldn't have to worry about a rotting smell. I am trying to research to determine if the process is applicable and if the Co2 production is enough to benefit a small garden. It would be nice if we could translate the waste from our kitchen into bigger yields. My internet is limited to about an hour per day, so it's slow going. Good news is I will be finished moving in a few weeks and have constant internet again.

Very Nice Sir Heisenberg. Very nice indeed.

Thanks for taking the time to do all this research. Sorry to hear that your operations have taken a hiatus, but i look forward to your work with making brewing beneficials more efficiently. I'm running a lot of experiments as well and hope to be able to make some type of real contribution to this discussion one day.

Edit:
Heisenberg, have you seen the Exhale CO2 bags on the market?

Q- What is inside the ExHale Cultivator?
A- Inside the ExHale cultivator is a non-fruiting
mycelial mass that is growing on organic matter.
NO manure is used and there is no odor.

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They don't tell you exactly what is inside it, but its pretty much the "co2-fungi-brew" in-a-bag that you were going to work on. If you figured out how to DIY, that would be incredible.

I didn't get a chance to read through all 40 pages of this yet so I hope this question hasn't been asked too many times. I too have a case of cyanobacteria or brown slime algae all over my roots and has been there since the start. I, being a first time DWC grower, had no idea what to do and just thought it was root rot so I did a week or so of H2O2 treatmeant which now after reading more and properly diagnosing my plants seemed to have only helped the cyanobacteria.

I am going to my local grow shop tomorrow to pick up what I can to make the tea. They don't have the exact products you suggested but they do have:

• Aquashield Compost Solution
• Guardian MY Liquid by Botanicare - Has all the micorrhizal fingui including the glomus that are in the ZHO Powder
• PHC Biopak
• some type of root accelerator - they have a lot to choose from
• *They dont carry Ancient Forest EWC - is this bad? Should I order online?
  

Should I use Physan 20 first for a day in my res to kill everything? I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about using that product with my plants as it specifically says not to use with edible products....

I switched to a brand new clean res yesterday thinking it would help so the problem is not that bad yet. The upper roots are very slimed up but the lower areas are still pretty white with only a small amount of slime. I don't really see any other way of getting all the slime off? Or will the tea be effective enough once it is introduced? I have 3 days probably until my tea will be ready, should I swap out my res to just pH'd water or do anything like that?

My current setup is:
20 Gallon rubbermaid type res with 4 airstones and about 14 gallons of water in it when its completely full

I am using Advanced Nutrients Micro/Bloom/Grow with Technofloras Thrive Alive B-1, Magical, Awesome Bloosom, and Sugardaddy. I am at about 30 days into an autoflower grow at about 3/4 strength nutes which makes it right around 1000ppm and pH of about 5.8. My res temps have been from 65-73° and the tent goes from about 75° in the day to about 60° at night. Running 180w Isis LED and two 2' T5's as supplementary light which also keeps me sane by making my plants not look like they are from another world (purple crazy monsters when its only the LED). From the research I have done these are all IDEAL conditions for growth.

Last question that is kind of off topic but probably has to do with this. I started off my grow with four plants (Auto AK, Auto Lemon, Automaria II, and La Bella Afrodita). The FEMINIZED auto lemon ended up being a guy so I pulled him out. The Auto AK and the Automaria II look amazing and have been budding now for about a week, maybe a week and a half. They are both about 6-7" tall but SUPER bushy, I count at least 5 or 6 main nodes off the main stem so there are tons of leaves. The last plant, the La Bella Afrodita has had super stunted growth and the leaves are yellow starting from the base going to the middle of the leafs. A few of the leaves have small brown almost burn marks near their bases. All the plants are the same age but this one just wont seem to grow, it has about 1/4 the root mass of the other two and only about 6 good leaves on it. Could this be caused by the cyanobaceria?

Also do you think my growth has been stunted on the other two? I have uploaded pictures below. They really haven't grown upwards much.

This is my first real grow, my last one was a shitty attempt that never panned out. I really want to produce something good so any help is much appreciated.

Thanks to anyone you took the time to read all of that, my high ass knows how to ramble. On to the pics:

Pics 1-3 Automaria II


Pics 4-6 Auto AK



Pics 7 and 8 - Stunted La Bella Afrodita with other unknown problems....

I have been fighting pythium and brown slime for over three years now and I hope that I can put these problems past me with the help of this thread. If I took pictures of my roots, they would look just like the pictures posted above me. Pythium is classified as a pathogen and I read here on ROI and on other gardening forums that it can NOT be killed 100% and you must kill all the plants and throw away ALL equipment that has come in contact with pythium water. Res, trays, pumps, hoses, PH/PPM/EC meters, etc and start all over. Can you confirm this?

I had been bankrolling my whole grow for a year and a half at this point and with funds exhausted I could not afford to buy all new stuff. What I ended up doing was killing every one of my plants and cleaning all my equipment first with bleach, then with H202 and bought new pumps and hoses. When everything was cleaned out, I filled it up with fresh RO water and nutes. Before adding any plants, the very next morning the water was shit brown AGAIN. This led me to believe that pythium could in fact not be killed, like I had read.

I was going to just pull the plug when a member here told me I had to try Hygrozyme and that it would save my plants. I used the stuff and saw a giant improvement. The water and roots were still brown and with the brown slime, but the plant growth was night and day. It went from growing no buds to growing a decent amount, making the grow worth while. I have been growing with pythium, brown slime and hygrozyme for two years now. At this point I really just want to get rid of all the bad stuff and have healthy white roots.

I just came across this thread and really hope that the tea will kill all the bad stuff. After reading your directions, I ordered everything you listed with the exception of Great White in place of Aquashield. When I get everything and make a batch I will post my results.

G

Goldowitz said:

I have been fighting pythium and brown slime for over three years now and I hope that I can put these problems past me with the help of this thread. If I took pictures of my roots, they would look just like the pictures posted above me. Pythium is classified as a pathogen and I read here on ROI and on other gardening forums that it can NOT be killed 100% and you must kill all the plants and throw away ALL equipment that has come in contact with pythium water. Res, trays, pumps, hoses, PH/PPM/EC meters, etc and start all over. Can you confirm this?
G

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It's true, pythium can not be eliminated without laboratory conditions. Pythium can be found in the dust floating around your house. It is in all soils, dirt, non-treated water, river rocks, ect. If you pay attention to what doctors have to do when they enter a "clean room" then you would have an idea of what you'd need to do to keep pythium out of your garden. Better to think of your goal as deactivation of the pythium. That isn't a scientifically accurate description, but it helps us come to terms with what we are doing. So because the spores are everywhere all the time, it doesn't make sense to throw away equipment. New equipment you bring in will quickly be exposed to spores, and might even have some on it already. Best thing is to just be persistently clean about your entire hobby. Most of the time plants would not need to be sacrificed unless the infection is very advanced. Pythium will eventually enter the plants system and can be passed on to cuttings.

Fruiting pythium, which is what you observe on roots, can be killed. However it's cousins are waiting in indestructible spore form to immediately step in and take over. Since you can never rid yourself of the spores, you want to make sure the spores never feel like 'hatching'. The first thing to do is make your res an inhospitable place by observing proper res conditions, and applying the tea. The second best thing to do is ensure your plants are healthy as possible; pathogens like stressed, young and weak hosts. Pythium sits and waits for opportunity, if no opportunity presents itself, pythium will just sit... and that's the best we can hope for.

Remember to stop using the hygrozyme. Good luck!

tllx99 said:

I didn't get a chance to read through all 40 pages of this yet so I hope this question hasn't been asked too many times. I too have a case of cyanobacteria or brown slime algae all over my roots and has been there since the start. I, being a first time DWC grower, had no idea what to do and just thought it was root rot so I did a week or so of H2O2 treatmeant which now after reading more and properly diagnosing my plants seemed to have only helped the cyanobacteria.

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I welcome questions and enjoy helping everyone, but a post in this thread should NEVER start out by stating that you haven't read it all. I realize that you're eager to apply the success you see others having to your garden, but that should be all the more reason to at least skim through the thread. Chances are you questions will be answered faster that way than if you wait for me. You like to think that others take the time to read your posts don't you?

Drop all non essential nutrients until you have things under control. Keep anything organic out of the res. Rinse the roots, preferable with a sprayer over the sink. You can spray them directly with 3% h202 before rinsing them with water. Give the roots a slight tug and massage and try to discard any mushy roots. Clean and disinfect all equipment and apparatus. Prepare a fresh res and set the plants in it and immediately start tea treatments. Maintain proper res conditions and things will improve in a few days.

The root conditions are certainly not helping your plants add bulk, however I would say your dwarf plant is probably due to genetics. I have had some seeds that just didn't want to grow roots or foliage as fast as the others. If all things are equal, then I'd blame the seed. The discoloration is indeed probably from the roots being strangled and will correct itself once the roots are healthy. In the meantime you can help things along by foliar feeding.

Don't order the ancient forest unless you can find cheap shipping. Shipping makes it go from an $8 purchase to a $40 purchase. Fortunately my hydro shop was able to order a few bags to be thrown on their regular shipment, so it didn't cost anyone extra shipping. If I were in your shoes I would go with the aquashield and the guardian liquid; botanicare makes great products. Any EWC can be used and will help with diversity. Roots excel is pricey and using it in the tea reduces it's effectiveness. It still gives the tea a boost, but at $80 a bottle it's an expensive boost.

I feel that if I stopped using Hygrozyme my plants would start to die, as that was my past experience. It has been the only thing keeping me going thus far.
I wanted to state that I am not DWC, I am doing a SOG on ebb and flow tables. Reading some of your earlier post is seems like Hygrozyme will be ok in my situation? Now that I found your thread I will brew the tea just like you said and if it works I will be more than happy to stop paying $130 a gallon for Hygrozyme. In the mean time I don't mind the cost and would like to continue to use it until the tea is fully working. Do you see any disadvantage in doing so? Also I just got my order of General Hydroponics Ancient Forest today and don't see anything about EWC on the bag, it says "Alaska humus". This is what I got, just want to make sure it is the right stuff.


http://www.activepowersports.com/products/General-Hydroponics-Ancient-Forest-%2d-0.5-cu-ft.html

Thanks for all your help and + rep.

G