EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

[Fogdog]

Sometimes it takes going to extremes to convince people to consider another direction.

I know, I have heard the argument that letting the right win pulls the country further rightward. While true in the past, I think this time the mood of the country is different. There's a rising disgust with the arrogance of wealth, a sense of indignation with the lack of accountability and purple are getting outright fed up with being subjected to the abuses of a fascist state while being told they're free.

I'll respect your and Sky's right to vote your conscience and I'll vote mine. I get your argument, but I think you overstate your case. I think that we can move the country to the left and avoid the Trump iceberg. In my mind it's not "either/or". My opinion.

If Trump gets in and we see another right wing takeover in Washington, it's going to be another Bush 2 redux. or worse. Sorry but that's not a good thing for a lot of people. I'm beginning to think that Bernie babies think this is acceptable because they are white, economically OK and will probably not be affected by Trump's and GOP's racism. In other words only slightly better than Trump's supporters in their callous attitude to the people who will take the full affect of Trumps bigoted policies. Just my theory right now but if there is some truth in it, this really shines a bad light on your disregard for others.

 

[ttystikk]

I'll respect your and Sky's right to vote your conscience and I'll vote mine. I get your argument, but I think you overstate your case. I think that we can move the country to the left and avoid the Trump iceberg. In my mind it's not "either/or". My opinion.

If Trump gets in and we see another right wing takeover in Washington, it's going to be another Bush 2 redux. or worse. Sorry but that's not a good thing for a lot of people. I'm beginning to think that Bernie babies think this is acceptable because they are white, economically OK and will probably not be affected by Trump's and GOP's racism. In other words only slightly better than Trump's supporters in their callous attitude to the people who will take the full affect of Trumps bigoted policies. Just my theory right now but if there is some truth in it, this really shines a bad light on your disregard for others.

My perceived disregard for others is misplaced.

The country needs to be taken back from the greed heads and those who would use money to gain power.

I don't want it to get worse. Yet limping along is no solution. That's death by a thousand cuts, and even our unborn children are being bled.

This isn't about punishment; the Great Depression showed our grandparents just how horrible the Republican position is and they DID SOMETHING.

Somehow, the same lesson hasn't been internalized by the public this time. If it has to get worse before it gets better, then the sooner, the better!

 

[schuylaar]

I'll respect your and Sky's right to vote your conscience and I'll vote mine. I get your argument, but I think you overstate your case. I think that we can move the country to the left and avoid the Trump iceberg. In my mind it's not "either/or". My opinion.

If Trump gets in and we see another right wing takeover in Washington, it's going to be another Bush 2 redux. or worse. Sorry but that's not a good thing for a lot of people. I'm beginning to think that Bernie babies think this is acceptable because they are white, economically OK and will probably not be affected by Trump's and GOP's racism. In other words only slightly better than Trump's supporters in their callous attitude to the people who will take the full affect of Trumps bigoted policies. Just my theory right now but if there is some truth in it, this really shines a bad light on your disregard for others.

If it's not either/or, then why do Clinton supporters make it seem that way?

You then further state why it's Bernie babies 'disregard for others'..

You DON'T respect my right.

 

[schuylaar]

My perceived disregard for others is misplaced.

The country needs to be taken back from the greed heads and those who would use money to gain power.

I don't want it to get worse. Yet limping along is no solution. That's death by a thousand cuts, and even our unborn children are being bled.

This isn't about punishment; the Great Depression showed our grandparents just how horrible the Republican position is and they DID SOMETHING.

Somehow, the same lesson hasn't been internalized by the public this time. If it has to get worse before it gets better, then the sooner, the better!

Because money.

 

[londonfog]

Yeah, if he abstained, you would be sitting here crying about how he hates women

Clinton endorsed the same crime bill you're condemning Sanders for voting for but she gets a free pass for it because you support her, funny that, the only thing you seem to be consistent at is being inconsistent..

Clinton apologized for what she did. Bernie did not.

 

[londonfog]

I'll respect your and Sky's right to vote your conscience and I'll vote mine. I get your argument, but I think you overstate your case. I think that we can move the country to the left and avoid the Trump iceberg. In my mind it's not "either/or". My opinion.

If Trump gets in and we see another right wing takeover in Washington, it's going to be another Bush 2 redux. or worse. Sorry but that's not a good thing for a lot of people. I'm beginning to think that Bernie babies think this is acceptable because they are white, economically OK and will probably not be affected by Trump's and GOP's racism. In other words only slightly better than Trump's supporters in their callous attitude to the people who will take the full affect of Trumps bigoted policies. Just my theory right now but if there is some truth in it, this really shines a bad light on your disregard for others.

Most excellent post.
Exactly why I give these Bernie babies a hard time.

 

[londonfog]

They keep uncovering new leads. Plus the witnesses are not cooperating. One says she only learned about the server AFTER hillary hired her as a lawyer AFTER she served as her top aide. The man who set up her server pled the fifth 130 times during trial.

Hillary has been very thorough in covering her tracks. The investigation started with a request for emails concerning benghazi
That led to discovery of her private server. That led to discovery that her aids were copying and sending state documents to the private server.

There is so much more too. It is not a simple investigation. They are interviewing EVERYONE to get all possibe evidence before they subpoena clinton.

Clinton is a BOSS
She cannot be stopped
Can you say Juggernaut

 

[Rob Roy]

Clinton is a BOSS
She cannot be stopped
Can you say Juggernaut

 

[Fogdog]

If it's not either/or, then why do Clinton supporters make it seem that way?

You then further state why it's Bernie babies 'disregard for others'..

You DON'T respect my right.

Can't take criticism? I wonder what a Muslim thinks about Bernie babies who would vote their conscience yet by doing so put Trump in power?

 

[Fogdog]

My perceived disregard for others is misplaced.

The country needs to be taken back from the greed heads and those who would use money to gain power.

I don't want it to get worse. Yet limping along is no solution. That's death by a thousand cuts, and even our unborn children are being bled.

This isn't about punishment; the Great Depression showed our grandparents just how horrible the Republican position is and they DID SOMETHING.

Somehow, the same lesson hasn't been internalized by the public this time. If it has to get worse before it gets better, then the sooner, the better!

In this post you come across as if you would teach us all a lesson. Trump and his policies will cause a great deal of harm This is not theoretical to those affected. But it is to you. I don't think you are going to be affected one bit. No skin off your nose.

Don't take offense. I'm just voicing criticism like you have been doing for months.

 

[ttystikk]

In this post you come across as if you would teach us all a lesson. Trump and his policies will cause a great deal of harm This is not theoretical to those affected. But it is to you. I don't think you are going to be affected one bit. No skin off your nose.

Don't take offense. I'm just voicing criticism like you have been doing for months.

Those who complain that a vote for anyone but Shillary is a vote for Chump disregard my constitutional right to vote for whom I choose. You're one of them.

This isn't fantasy football. It's not about voting for the most likely winner; it's about voting for the most likely to do me some good in DC.

 

[Fogdog]

Those who complain that a vote for anyone but Shillary is a vote for Chump disregard my constitutional right to vote for whom I choose. You're one of them.

This isn't fantasy football. It's not about voting for the most likely winner; it's about voting for the most likely to do me some good in DC.

You are right, this isn't fantasy football. Real people will be affected by Trump's racism and the harm that Trump will do when he disregards environmental regulations will cause damage that will probably never recover.

"do me good" is pretty close to what Trump supporters say..

 

[Fogdog]

People experiencing the effect that racism has on their lives, they don't seem to think that Trump would "do them good". http://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1144-57Clinton-TrumpFavorability.pdf

Even more striking is Trump’s unfavorability rating among racial and ethnic minorities – a virtually unanimous 94 percent of blacks see him negatively, as do 89 percent of Hispanics; that declines to 59 percent among whites. Clinton is more unpopular than Trump among whites – 68 percent see her unfavorably – but vastly more popular among nonwhites.

Black and Latino people are polling 90% unfavorable towards Trump. They know his language and what it portends all to well. That a majority of whites don't hear the same threat only highlights how this "moral high ground" espoused by Bernie babies has some racist roots. Not saying Bernie babies are racist, just unconcerned because Trump and they are white. Well, maybe I am.

Clinton polls with about 70% favorable rating from black and Latino voters. So, our Bernie babies are white, well educated and probably came from families that represent the same demographic. They hate Clinton to the point where they are OK with the idea of a Trump victory. People who will be most affected by Trumps racism say resoundingly "no" to this idea. I ask which side do you want to be on?

 

[Padawanbater2]

Clinton apologized for what she did. Bernie did not.

 

[londonfog]

really ? A chopped and edited aged clip from youtube is your argument.

 

[Padawanbater2]

really ? A chopped and edited aged clip from youtube is your argument.

Sanders' focus is on the socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, Clinton's focus is on punishment and increasing the amount of police and prisons. As a man of color yourself, are you going to sit there and tell me Clinton's approach and opinions regarding the 1994 crime bill and crime and poverty in general are better for the black community than Sanders'?

Please, I would love for you to tell me that

 

[londonfog]

Sanders' focus is on the socioeconomic factors that lead to crime, Clinton's focus is on punishment and increasing the amount of police and prisons. As a man of color yourself, are you going to sit there and tell me Clinton's approach and opinions regarding the 1994 crime bill and crime and poverty in general are better for the black community than Sanders'?

Please, I would love for you to tell me that

Bernie voted yes on a bill after pointing out how it would hurt some. Never apologized for that shit.
Clinton admitted how wrong she was.
Bernie is not the fuckng god you make him out to be

 

[Padawanbater2]

Bernie voted yes on a bill after pointing out how it would hurt some. Never apologized for that shit.
Clinton admitted how wrong she was.
Bernie is not the fuckng god you make him out to be

He has plenty of faults, like his opinions on nuclear energy, GMOs & gun regulation for example, but he is lightyears better than every other candidate and anybody with a basic understanding of the issues and an awareness of what's going on in the world can see that

You didn't answer my question; as a black man, which candidate has a better understanding of the solution to the problems that create crime according to both of their own words in the clips from earlier? Nothing was taken out of context, both Sanders and Clinton are very clear on how they want to solve the problem - Sanders says we need to focus on things like education, poverty rates, unemployment, the war on drugs, etc., Clinton says we need more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. So, in retrospect, with 22 years of evidence since, whose approach was better?

 

[Fogdog]

He has plenty of faults, like his opinions on nuclear energy, GMOs & gun regulation for example, but he is lightyears better than every other candidate and anybody with a basic understanding of the issues and an awareness of what's going on in the world can see that

You didn't answer my question; as a black man, which candidate has a better understanding of the solution to the problems that create crime according to both of their own words in the clips from earlier? Nothing was taken out of context, both Sanders and Clinton are very clear on how they want to solve the problem - Sanders says we need to focus on things like education, poverty rates, unemployment, the war on drugs, etc., Clinton says we need more police, more prisons and harsher sentences. So, in retrospect, with 22 years of evidence since, whose approach was better?

The 1994 crime bill, 22 years ago. People can evolve and change, which is why it's important to put more weight on recent statements and actions than ones in the past. Such as:

Hillary Clinton has already admitted that the 1994 bill went too far. She apologised for her use of the term "superpredator" when referring to a supposedly new kind of remorseless juvenile criminal that ultimately never emerged. She has spoken repeatedly on the campaign trail about ending mass incarceration. Her platform promises to make the Fair Sentencing Act retroactive and to reduce nonviolent drug crime mandatory sentences.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36020717

She recants her previous statement. Not saying disregard what she said earlier but to ignore her recent statements is pretty much denying that people can learn and change opinion.

 

[Padawanbater2]

The 1994 crime bill, 22 years ago. People can evolve and change, which is why it's important to put more weight on recent statements and actions than ones in the past. Such as:

Hillary Clinton has already admitted that the 1994 bill went too far. She apologised for her use of the term "superpredator" when referring to a supposedly new kind of remorseless juvenile criminal that ultimately never emerged. She has spoken repeatedly on the campaign trail about ending mass incarceration. Her platform promises to make the Fair Sentencing Act retroactive and to reduce nonviolent drug crime mandatory sentences.

She recants her previous statement.

All that really shows me is more evidence of Clinton swaying with public opinion. That's not to say that people can't evolve on their positions. I think that's actually a good thing when it's legitimate. The problem is, with Clinton, I don't think it is. I think she supports whatever the majority of the public supports just to keep her head above water since she's so unliked by the American public, she can't afford very many mistakes.

How's she plan on ending mass incarceration without ending the war on drugs? That's a pipe dream, that will never happen since it's a divided issue, and that's exactly what we're going to get with a Clinton administration. Lot's of talk, very little action.