Experienced Organic Grower to Answer Your Questions

greasemonkeymann said:

We need to get rid of the subcool-recipe sticky and make a simple compost and vermicompost sticky.
Both of those are massively more integral than a layered mix, predicated on water soluble nutrients..

It's be like if you had a buddy that never has had sushi in his life, so you go buy him sushi from a grocery store or something.
Not gonna be the same experience as a classy Japanese sushi place, in fact he may not even like it.

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And the choir sang "Hallelujah!"

Crackheadlighter said:

After my cuttings root up in my rock wool cubes should I put them In straight ffof or a mix I have ffof and some coco with some perlite in it

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FFOF little hot for young plants. I would set them in a light substrate base. I typically use Pro-Mix for this phase, as it is light and mild. Some would say just make it yourself, but I have found it to be a lot easier for me to just buy it and use it accordingly. I am more in the commercial aspect of things and making literally tons of your own soil--while cheap and effective--can sometimes be quite an endeavor in and of itself when you need a few thousand yards

greasemonkeymann said:

my bad, I apologize.
No room in the world for more of that.
In my defense though, most of us organic/natural growers have a true distaste for the subcool techniques and recipe, as they are fundamentally flawed.
So we see layered soil, and we immediately start flaming away.
Because the technique and recipe was made a permanent sticky, oftentimes new organic growers go to it, and then get frustrated when their plants don't come out as well as their hydro grows did, and for that, many go back to using chelated chemical grows.

We need to get rid of the subcool-recipe sticky and make a simple compost and vermicompost sticky.
Both of those are massively more integral than a layered mix, predicated on water soluble nutrients..

It's be like if you had a buddy that never has had sushi in his life, so you go buy him sushi from a grocery store or something.
Not gonna be the same experience as a classy Japanese sushi place, in fact he may not even like it.

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All good. I understand your sentiments. Though I am not as averse to concentrated layering, I do understand its pitfalls and its merits.

I tend to make my own soil for canna and recycle it after. Mixed in with enzyme, compost and worm teas, I really don't do much at all as far as replacing soil, etc. I make my own EWC as well, so that aids in the recycling soil aspect.

Snafu1236 said:

All good. I understand your sentiments. Though I am not as averse to concentrated layering, I do understand its pitfalls and its merits.

I tend to make my own soil for canna and recycle it after. Mixed in with enzyme, compost and worm teas, I really don't do much at all as far as replacing soil, etc. I make my own EWC as well, so that aids in the recycling soil aspect.

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please don't take this aggressively, but what "merits" would you say layering soil provides?
Again, i'm not trying to start an argument, but in my mind there is no advantage of layered nutrients
Only disadvantages in fact

greasemonkeymann said:

please don't take this aggressively, but what "merits" would you say layering soil provides?
Again, i'm not trying to start an argument, but in my mind there is no advantage of layered nutrients
Only disadvantages in fact

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You can give the pot to a first time grower with a plant in it and they just need to water it. It may not yield the best or have the most pronounced results, however it works wonders for people who do not have experience gardening or are too sick to worry about learning a new craft. In my experience, it is an efficient and simple way to get new gardeners easily started.

greasemonkeymann said:

please don't take this aggressively, but what "merits" would you say layering soil provides?
Again, i'm not trying to start an argument, but in my mind there is no advantage of layered nutrients
Only disadvantages in fact

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If you are looking for my gardeners perspective and opinion on it, I don't have one because I do not use layering for my personal garden. I tend to build my own soil and recycle.

Snafu1236 said:

I write for Greenleaf Magazine and own an organic fruit and vegetable company. I grow in organic soil.

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What kind of fruit? Any hazelnuts?

Snafu1236 said:

You can give the pot to a first time grower with a plant in it and they just need to water it. It may not yield the best or have the most pronounced results, however it works wonders for people who do not have experience gardening or are too sick to worry about learning a new craft. In my experience, it is an efficient and simple way to get new gardeners easily started.

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You seem like a good guy, and I appreciate that you don't use the layering concept, and I don't mean to sound like a prick ( I do that inadvertently)
It's far from a water only recipe, you should see how many people run into alllllll sorts of crazy shit at around week 5 to week 6.
The internet is FULL of pics and threads on that.
I wouldn't give that soil to a newbie, i'd show him how to use chelated chems before that..
If you are an editor for a grow magazine, it's even MORE important that you realize this.
The layered nutrients are long gone before the plant "needs" it.
not to mention cannabis is a drought tolerant plant, the root system is massive, and verrrry fast growing, in a good soil the plant can send roots down to the bottom of the container within days (sometime even hours) after transplanting, having the entire growing media with cycled nutrients will far exceed any layered soil.
The premise is flawed, roots do NOT wait for them to "need" the nutrients to use them, in a layered soil the amended soil is so high in organic nutrients, acidic and anaerobic, the soil itself prunes the roots, and by the time the soil is actually conducive to roots living in it, the water based soluble nutrients are long gone.
it has NO advantage, whatsoever.

Look, I'm merely trying to educate people. From a biochemistry standpoint, a horticulture standpoint, a botany standpoint and from 25+yrs of experience growing damn near everything, it's flawed in every way imaginable.

Snafu1236 said:

If you are looking for my gardeners perspective and opinion on it, I don't have one because I do not use layering for my personal garden. I tend to build my own soil and recycle.

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I was just trying to see and understand why you'd recommend it to anyone, being someone with more of a "voice" on it (as a magazine editor)
It's almost to where i'd say you have a "duty" to be as educated and informed on what exactly is going on in an organic soil
and to share that with the people that are too lazy to research it on their own
You feel me?
And again i'm not knocking you man, I want you to understand and share the knowledge

Rasta Roy said:

And the choir sang "Hallelujah!"

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negative, i'd say you 2 have been lucky
....food for thought

snafu would you mind sharing with us your green magazine advertisers ?

iHearAll said:

Ffof is pretty hot, didnt ask me but it a no. Cut it!!! Cheers

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Thank you should I do 75%ffof and 25 % coco or what. When I placed my seeds in straight ffof they got a little burnt like 3% I guess lol but they look good just a little brown tips. They are dark green and are perked up towards the light. All the leaves are really Perked up.

Snafu1236 said:

FFOF little hot for young plants. I would set them in a light substrate base. I typically use Pro-Mix for this phase, as it is light and mild. Some would say just make it yourself, but I have found it to be a lot easier for me to just buy it and use it accordingly. I am more in the commercial aspect of things and making literally tons of your own soil--while cheap and effective--can sometimes be quite an endeavor in and of itself when you need a few thousand yards

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Thank you I'll get some pro mix but for now I'll just do a 75% ffof and 25% coco. That should be fine right? Because if my seeds were barely burnt with straight ffof then taking it back to 75% and 25% should be fine right?

Crackheadlighter said:

Thank you should I do 75%ffof and 25 % coco or what. When I placed my seeds in straight ffof they got a little burnt like 3% I guess lol but they look good just a little brown tips. They are dark green and are perked up towards the light. All the leaves are really Perked up.

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Yea thatd be ok i think, I've never worked wth the stuff so maybe hold out for a tried and trie response. I just know that it's not a base soil. 33% is what id do to be sure

platt said:

negative, i'd say you 2 have been lucky
....food for thought

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While I would like to think that I am lucky, I have earned my experience through failure. Things didn't just happen to work out lol. I have been fortunate to receive the opportunities I have. Being able to work on multiple grows at once has allowed me to experiment and learn at a rate that I know I would never achieve had I been only able to access my personal grow.

cmoon..no one would argue with your growing methods. They look perfectly dialed with your situation

Rasta Roy said:

While I would like to think that I am lucky, I have earned my experience through failure. Things didn't just happen to work out lol. I have been fortunate to receive the opportunities I have. Being able to work on multiple grows at once has allowed me to experiment and learn at a rate that I know I would never achieve had I been only able to access my personal grow.

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i'm not exactly sure what he meant, but by no means am I lucky at all
at least not in that regard, growing in a mite-infested redwood forest isn't exactly an easy chore, nor is it a cheap, I've spent over 600 dollars in predator mites in the last yr, just to ensure that I can actually grow plants to a finish.
It's not easy by any means, believe me, I earn it, especially considering I only do this as a hobby/personal smoke
I believe platt uses a translator?
Either way I cannot fathom how replicating nature carefully is luck

But honestly I think it's something lost in translation

now that was better

replicating nature

platt said:

now that was better

replicating nature

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wtf are you talking about man?
you got something to say?

yes! ^ please send me to your ignore list as soon as you can.