For All Cap Ebb and Grow Users

Humboldt14 said:

thanks man. so that means a little flux is good then?

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Yes thats what that means.. I use RO water and that has a PH of about 4.9. RO water does not have buffers in it so any PH adjuster will do alot. I usually add just a couple ml of PH up and down to stableize it. I let it drift upwards as they drink and eat the nutes. Then I adjust it back down as I add water.. Little is more so dont chase it let it fluctuate... 5.5-6.5 is the rule; like I said I go 5.3-6.3 ish. I am new but I am having great results.

The fluctuation in pH is good. Your pH should rise as plants drink the water and nutrients. Your ppm should lower as well. If it isnt, the plants arent drinking to full capacity. That's why you top of the res a few times as week, and add nutrients only after you've replaced about 20-25% of the water, or once weekly. I've gone 11 weeks now on the same reservoir without the need to flush and fill it. After the current crop is done in about 2 weeks, then it'll be a full drain and scrub and a FloraKleen flush when the pots are empty. Easy as that!

thanks to both of you. I have been obsesing over keeping it exactly 5.5. this realy helped me alot.

MY STEM ON MY 3 or 4 week plant broke!!! I PROPED IT UP WITH SOMEORE SOIL AND I WANNA KNOW IF IT WILL BE OKAY OR HOW I CAN FIX IT!!!!

fat corey187 said:

MY STEM ON MY 3 or 4 week plant broke!!! I PROPED IT UP WITH SOMEORE SOIL AND I WANNA KNOW IF IT WILL BE OKAY OR HOW I CAN FIX IT!!!!

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that happend to 2 of my plants this past week due to the fan. both plants survived. stick a stick that is strong enouph in the soil up against the stem and tie a string around it to hold it up and cross your fingers. but if the stem did not seperate and just fell over you will be fine.

Duct tape!!

Hey all, I have a question about the ebb & gro... My buddy has a 24 site ebbngro and just transplanted yesterday. The clones were left in the cloner a lot longer than anticipated and their roots are about 6-10" long. He started the cloner on 1/4 strength nutes about a week ago. He is using H&G Aqua Flakes nutes, Roots Excel, and SM-90. Now his res is 50 gal, so for the Aqua Flakes he used 75ml (1/4 strength would be 68.75ml) so just over 1/4 strength nutes. 60-70ml (wasn't exact) of Roots Excel, and 100ml of SM-90 (2ml/gal). Now before transplanting and after ph-down'ing quite a bit the TDS was 200. Now after the transplant the TDS is 240. Oh, and the water is RO with a tds of 11 and ph of 6.2 . The room runs quite warm @ 80f and the Res @ 78f, now I think the meter may be reading a little high it's just one of those cheap walmart thermometer/hygrometer with a probe was $6 now they doubled the price to $12. So my guess is that the room is about 78f and the res is about 74-75f. These temps were taken about four hours after the lights turned off and it is a hot day. Lights run from around 6pm to 11am.


First question is about the TDS... It seems from what I read that my TDS is way lower than others at this stage. Is this normal?
Second question, Should he be feeding at a higher rate? The clones are quite a bit older than most in this stage, this is why I ask.
Third question, should I be worried about the temp much? The heat is my main concern for running the SM-90, and to keep bugs out.

Thanks to all of you.

I would start feeding growth formula.

Temp. in the rez. is too high. You need it no higher than 73. I keep mine at 67.
Room temp. is ok.

I don't know about TDS. I don't use a meter.

Good Luck!!!

cvbud said:

I dont know what i am doing wrong, but every single day i go to check the ph in my res, its up to 7.2 or higher. i always drop it down to about 5.2 to try and compensate for the high ph residing in the buckets, but i cant keep in under control. my plants seem to be having very slow growth, but i need to know if im doing the right thing? does anyone else have this problem with an ebb and flow?

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I know what you are going through. My tap is 7.9 and I don't use r/o. I was using the nutes that came with the ebb/gro system and had the same problems as you..but switched nutes. I now use the 3 part General Hydroponics nutes and I rarely have to ph down anymore. They really keep the ph stabilized. I'm sold on GH products.

I went to a going out of business sale and bought a lot of 5 gallon black buckets. (around 200). They also came with 500 plant stands that raise pots 1" off the floor. I figured I would add some pots to my ebb n gro system as I only have 15 of the original 2 gallon pots. Does anyone know if I can use 5 gallon pots along with the 2 gal pots in the same system? It would seem like you could, but I just want to be sure before I try to do this. The pots fit inside each other similar to the system,
If anyone has done a diy setup like this, do you have a link on what I should use to make the holes? Or does anyone have a link to diy an entire setup? I might as well do something with all of these pots I bought.

Before I get into this let me just say, Make sure you are not using PH down that has "citric acid" as it's only listed ingredient! GH ph down is phosphic acid+citric acid+ some other stuff... Pro PH down is strait phosphoric acid. Earth Juice PH "Crystals" (looks like sugar) is strait citric and citric acid will only drop the ph moment, then right back up way high again . I just mention it because it sounds like what you are experiencing.

Hey there I'm not sure if you know this allready but if you dont here goes: The PH in the res has a relationship with the TDS levels.

As you probably know... if the levels are low, you need less ph down. The higher the TDS the more ph down you need. This is because there are more salts in the water and they all have their own ph levels and buffering compacities. So when you do a new batch of nutrient solution the amount of ph down is alot higher than you must add towards the end. In the end of the batch we have a higher TDS do to normal salt build up or addbacks with nutes of other additives.

Now this is the relationship throughout the solution. Almost every element in your nutrients/additives/tap water influence your PH. So when the TDS is low these elements can reak havok on your PH. If possible add some Pro-tekt/Silicon Blast (silicon), raise the nute level (if plants can handle it, be very carefull!), anything that can raise the TDS a bit will help stablize the PH.

Off the subject a bit,

Using sm-90.. great all around product, prevents and treats root rot, keeps the res/buckets/hoses clean, improves nutrient uptake, bugs don't like it... It has a high ph level, so it will drive the ph up some, mostly over the first day. This scares people into not using it. However this will subside and even though is doesn't raise your TDS much, I highly recomend it.

A side note on SM-90 that is not published online that I know about... SM-90 will reverse root rot, however, while this is happening the proccess causes the PH to rise quite a bit for the duration but will stop climbing so much once the brown crap is gone. Just keep adjusting accordingly.

(This may be basic knowledge for most, but I feel I should post this info for it may just be that god-send that someone is searching for. Let me know if this helps you)

I just moved from soil over to the EBB system this go around, and it seems like its doing okay. Out of 12 plants I had 6 runts, which I figured out that I had my feed schedule backwards.

i got questions about this system. dont want to type a bunch until i have someone to talk to. some experienced growers? i really appreciate any response. thanks

Need some good advice guys, badly.

I dont know what to make of my plant problems. I've got two varieties going, 6 grand daddys, and 6 mazaars. The grandaddys are showing some serious leaf cupping, and mazaars arnt, but are a bit dark. The leaves feel a little dry and brittle, but dont have any twisting, only a little on the mazaars. They are six weeks into flowering, and i'm worried the bud growth is underdeveloped at this point.

As well i've got a PM problem that i've been trying to stay on top of with baking soda spray, but its not that effective. I've got plenty of ventilation, but the Relative humidity ranges from 46-68 on any given day. The temperature aswell ranges from 60-80 on any given day. Should i have a dehumidifier going?

As for the leaf cupping i thought it was an over nitrogen problem but now i'm not sure. I want to think its an overfertelization, but i'm not sure. I'm feeding only twice a day. I'm running the Lucas formula with R/O water, but have recently been cutting back on the micro to cut back on nitrogen. I dont think its been helping all that much and i need to figure out what to do with nutes. The PH consistently stays in the 5.8 range, and i have seldom needed to adjust with ph down or up. I keep the PPM at 1300, using TDS meter that converts a .7 EC. I top off the rez every day with new R/O water and nutes. The plants seem to use about 3 gallons a day. I keep the rez at 50 gallons of water. Not sure on the rez temp, but i dont think its too cold or too hot, i have to get a thermometer.

The plants are producing too many dead leaves on the bottom i think. On some of the grandaddies the larger fan leaves have recently been turning lighter green and some of the smaller ones haven fallen off when i lightly pull on them. I included a pic of some of the leaves that feel off from yesterday, today i got the same amount with some more completely dead leaves. The stems have a reddish color. I think the PM might be contributing to death?

Also, the roots arent really going through the holes at the bottom of the buckets all that much, just some are dangling down about 3-4 inches. Is this a problem?

I have a 1000 wat hps about 3 feet above the plants. One of the plants looks really stretched, i included a picture. Should i add another light, or is my 1000 wat good enough for this many plants and size. The mazaars about 3-4 feet tall and 2-3 feet wide.

What should i do? Can i add a different or more nute complex to the rez, or do i need to flush all together? Refilling with new water is a bitch, so if i can get away with adding more nutes then that would be great.

Also should i add any hydrogen peroxide to help oxegenate. What about Cal Mag??

Need help, thanks for any solid advice!!

im sorry bro but it looks like you jumped in feet first without going over everything, water temp is a mystery? thats not cool, are those Sure to grow insert your using? if so make this your last grow with them as i have known many users of this product across multple forums that have nothing but MAJOR problems, all of them usually point to some kind of nutrient problem, overwatering and you name it. the baking soda method only works as a stop gap for a couple of days until you get some kind of real protection for PM, yes get a dehumidifier, even if it keeps RH low i am sure you would rather have RH in the 30's rather than the 60's, in a couple of weeks when you have larger buds the RH will go much higher. now i know you said res changes are a bitch and they are, unless you have an extra pump laying around, but if you have only been topping off and not changing the res out completly then this could be one of your problems. for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days. from the pictures it seems like the problems you have are exactly like what i have seen from every STG user. your plants defintly have plenty of Nitrogen as they are dark almost blue. i would suggest using a spray called serenade, it is buscillis subtillus, this is very good for PM, i also used in rotation a sulfer spray, but after your 3rd week of flowering you cannot spray anymore, you will need a sulfur burner. now for the TDS, at a conversion of .7 your EC comes out to almost 1.9, but hanna which is almost the standard in EC measureing goes by .5 conversion, this comes out to 2.6ec, lower your tds, it will not hurt, also give your plants a trim underneeth, you can take off the lower 1/4 of leaves, dont wait for them to fall of and make a mess, this will improve air flow. like i said before if those are stg inserts that is the root of your problems, change res every 10-14 days, flush every 2-3 res's and lower your tds and i promise you will have happier plants in 7 days

"for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days." Morris do you recommend doing that even If no problems are present?

boxing119 said:

"for a trouble free grow flush with plain water once a month for 2 days." Morris do you recommend doing that even If no problems are present?

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yes indeed, the reason why i say 2 days is if your in flower and you feed once every 3-4 hours that only gives you 3-4 floods during lights on, thats not enough rince to wash off nutrient residue, during veging i flush the day before flipping the lights, since i run 24 hours and flood every 3 hours i get 8 floods in one day. the best way to know if you flushed good is when your ppm readings stop climbing, for example you add plain fresh 0ppm water, after first flood that number will climb, next thing you know that once 0ppm res water is now 600ppm. i go the extra mile and flush with plain water, 24 hours later dump res and add plain water again for another 24hours, but you can get away with doing it just once since i know its a pain to keep filling and dumping. going the extra mile like i do makes for stable PH and i never get nutrient lockout, even if you change your nutrient mix religiously weekly you will have salt build up and this can cause a nutrient solution to climb when the sweet spot for feeding should go down or stay close to the same starting point. now it is totally natural for PH to rise on a daily basis, but nutrient strength that rises very fast means one of 2 things, you have too much salt biuld up, or you are over feeding, now the basic way to tell if a plant is over fed is by seeing nutrient burn, this is the extreme case, too much nitrogen will turn plants dark green almost blue before you burn the tips, also give a cupping effect, the serrated edges of fan leaves point down, this is all tell tale signs of over fert. as for stablilty with your PH, you will see 2 different types of movemtn on PH, during Veg when a plant takes up most of the nitrogen, this nitrogen uptake will cause your PH to swing up to one whole point, from 5.5 to 6.5 in one day, to most who dont know better they think this is bad and it is a hard spke, this will usually occur when the plant is in veg and is pretty large, larger plants take up more water and nutrients therefore the swings in PH and PPMs are harder. in flower when we artificially deny the plant of nitrogen you will notice the PH stay for the most part the same or even go lower, there is a gentleman on this forum his name is FATMAN, he can elaborate more on this because he is good with the moleculare composition of water chemistry, in veg when nitrogen gets taken up it changes the chemistry of the solution naturally this is the main culprit. take into consideration of what i just said and add the fact that you may have tons of salt biuld up in your tank, in our case as CAP users where there are tons of surface area for salts to biuld up on and you may be using bottles of PH down too often. for those of you who do not veg long his should be mush of an issue, i veg anywhere from 4-6 weeks and i personally dont start to see hard PH spikes daily until 3-4 weeks in. i apply the monthly flush with hydro since when i used to run soil i had a new lockout or deficiencie every week, so i was always flushing and the more i flush the less problems i had, it give your root zone a clean slate. i also have intimate knowledges of the nutrients i use (botanicare PBP) and love it since it is not salty at all, unlike Technaflora and GH flora

thelotuseed said:

Need some good advice guys, badly.

I dont know what to make of my plant problems. I've got two varieties going, 6 grand daddys, and 6 mazaars. The grandaddys are showing some serious leaf cupping, and mazaars arnt, but are a bit dark. The leaves feel a little dry and brittle, but dont have any twisting, only a little on the mazaars. They are six weeks into flowering, and i'm worried the bud growth is underdeveloped at this point.

As well i've got a PM problem that i've been trying to stay on top of with baking soda spray, but its not that effective. I've got plenty of ventilation, but the Relative humidity ranges from 46-68 on any given day. The temperature aswell ranges from 60-80 on any given day. Should i have a dehumidifier going?

As for the leaf cupping i thought it was an over nitrogen problem but now i'm not sure. I want to think its an overfertelization, but i'm not sure. I'm feeding only twice a day. I'm running the Lucas formula with R/O water, but have recently been cutting back on the micro to cut back on nitrogen. I dont think its been helping all that much and i need to figure out what to do with nutes. The PH consistently stays in the 5.8 range, and i have seldom needed to adjust with ph down or up. I keep the PPM at 1300, using TDS meter that converts a .7 EC. I top off the rez every day with new R/O water and nutes. The plants seem to use about 3 gallons a day. I keep the rez at 50 gallons of water. Not sure on the rez temp, but i dont think its too cold or too hot, i have to get a thermometer.

The plants are producing too many dead leaves on the bottom i think. On some of the grandaddies the larger fan leaves have recently been turning lighter green and some of the smaller ones haven fallen off when i lightly pull on them. I included a pic of some of the leaves that feel off from yesterday, today i got the same amount with some more completely dead leaves. The stems have a reddish color. I think the PM might be contributing to death?

Also, the roots arent really going through the holes at the bottom of the buckets all that much, just some are dangling down about 3-4 inches. Is this a problem?

I have a 1000 wat hps about 3 feet above the plants. One of the plants looks really stretched, i included a picture. Should i add another light, or is my 1000 wat good enough for this many plants and size. The mazaars about 3-4 feet tall and 2-3 feet wide.

What should i do? Can i add a different or more nute complex to the rez, or do i need to flush all together? Refilling with new water is a bitch, so if i can get away with adding more nutes then that would be great.

Also should i add any hydrogen peroxide to help oxegenate. What about Cal Mag??

Need help, thanks for any solid advice!!

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I was having the same type of problems until I purchased a rez. chiller. Also, when using r/o water you must supplement magnesium. Some people use cal/mag which, can get expensive. I use epsom salt at the rate of 1T -2T per gallon of R/O.

You should get some hydroponic literature and read up!

Good Luck,
Sticky

supplementing mag/cal is realy dependant on your nutes... If your nutes are designed for RO then it's not needed howerver most do anyways causing lockout and then they assume they have a deficiency. I use Aqua Flakes and you can really only use mag/cal at 1/2 strength or it will lockout... sorry about the spelling.. alarm going off! gotta go