thegripper
Active Member
damn thats alot of nutes i dont even know where to start haha.
Also do you 18-6 for veg or 24-0 ?
Also do you 18-6 for veg or 24-0 ?
For all new growers with questions... Tons of information and answers..
- Thread starter simpsonsampson420
- Start date
showhard2handle
Well-Known Member
Sampson, coul dyou take a peak @ these pics & lemme know if you think all systems are go on these jewels?
Soaked for 21 hours & did everything else w/ rooters & root 66.
Should I use the dome for the tray?
And is the light too close? I would say the bulbs are prob. 6" from rooters.
Thanks homey!
Soaked for 21 hours & did everything else w/ rooters & root 66.
Should I use the dome for the tray?
And is the light too close? I would say the bulbs are prob. 6" from rooters.
Thanks homey!
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Sorry to bother again, but is it safe to totally soak them every watering? Even with unfertilized water, is it ok to totally immerse the container in water for a minute and remove? Or were you really only recommending that for the first couple times because of the nutrient deficiency? I know I've heard you shouldn't water at the stem because it can lead to stem rot or something, so is this risky at all?
Before I was basically just watering until it started to drip out the bottom a bunch, which definitely didn't saturate it with as much water as immersing it for a minute. Is that normally not a good method? I'd imagine it would take longer for the roots to get their breathing room back if their pot is retaining almost 100% more water than when watered until it drips out the bottom. But then again I have little experience. Thanks for your help, can we only give you reputation or whatever once?
PS: Alma doesn't seem to be losing weight much faster than normal, so I guess if i totally soak I may not even have to water more than once a week! Unless my plants have been showing signs of dehydration/over hydration* and I just haven't noticed because I think that they just look like that since this is my first time growing... *gonna look up what too much/too little water looks like...
PSS: Yeah I'm not sure if Alma*the biggest with the deficiency has had her leafs become a little droopy because of that problem or because shes just getting that big and they're hard to perk up, or it's her strain, or what.
PSSS: Ok so my smallest and youngest plant seems to grow in size the slowest, but is shooting off new leafs and early stages than the others, weirdest part for me is that her second pair of leafs have always been kinda twisted and curled liek they never finished unfolding. Whats with that? It seems healthy, its just those first 2 won't finish unfolding all that way and its like someone gently twisted them. Any idea what that is all about? She grows in height the least, she grows new leafs earlier/faster than the others (she germinated and sprouted latest), and has healthy but curled first pair.
Before I was basically just watering until it started to drip out the bottom a bunch, which definitely didn't saturate it with as much water as immersing it for a minute. Is that normally not a good method? I'd imagine it would take longer for the roots to get their breathing room back if their pot is retaining almost 100% more water than when watered until it drips out the bottom. But then again I have little experience. Thanks for your help, can we only give you reputation or whatever once?
PS: Alma doesn't seem to be losing weight much faster than normal, so I guess if i totally soak I may not even have to water more than once a week! Unless my plants have been showing signs of dehydration/over hydration* and I just haven't noticed because I think that they just look like that since this is my first time growing... *gonna look up what too much/too little water looks like...
PSS: Yeah I'm not sure if Alma*the biggest with the deficiency has had her leafs become a little droopy because of that problem or because shes just getting that big and they're hard to perk up, or it's her strain, or what.
PSSS: Ok so my smallest and youngest plant seems to grow in size the slowest, but is shooting off new leafs and early stages than the others, weirdest part for me is that her second pair of leafs have always been kinda twisted and curled liek they never finished unfolding. Whats with that? It seems healthy, its just those first 2 won't finish unfolding all that way and its like someone gently twisted them. Any idea what that is all about? She grows in height the least, she grows new leafs earlier/faster than the others (she germinated and sprouted latest), and has healthy but curled first pair.
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simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
i know what family guy you are talking about.. i love that shit.. heres to the start of your adventure.. cheers!!
i keep 24/0 right now... i was thinking about switching to 20/4... but i doubt i will...
IT IS A MYTH THAT ROOTS ONLY GROW IN THE DARK... IF YOU HEAR THAT FROM SOMEONE TRYING TO TALK YOU INTO 18/6 LAUGH TO YOURSELF AND WALK AWAY... lol
things look good.. lights fine... floros can be kept as close as they can be.. your fine there...
you can put the dome over the cubes until they sprout to hold the moisture in them if you want.. but as long as you mist them to keep them moist they'll be fine uncovered too...
you can submerge them anytime you water.... pretty much until you get large pots... and even then you can submerge them if you have a big enough container to do so in...Sorry to bother again, but is it safe to totally soak them every watering? Even with unfertilized water, is it ok to totally immerse the container in water for a minute and remove? Or were you really only recommending that for the first couple times because of the nutrient deficiency? I know I've heard you shouldn't water at the stem because it can lead to stem rot or something, so is this risky at all?
Before I was basically just watering until it started to drip out the bottom a bunch, which definitely didn't saturate it with as much water as immersing it for a minute. Is that normally not a good method? I'd imagine it would take longer for the roots to get their breathing room back if their pot is retaining almost 100% more water than when watered until it drips out the bottom. But then again I have little experience. Thanks for your help, can we only give you reputation or whatever once?
PS: Alma doesn't seem to be losing weight much faster than normal, so I guess if i totally soak I may not even have to water more than once a week! Unless my plants have been showing signs of dehydration/over hydration* and I just haven't noticed because I think that they just look like that since this is my first time growing... *gonna look up what too much/too little water looks like...
PSS: Yeah I'm not sure if Alma*the biggest with the deficiency has had her leafs become a little droopy because of that problem or because shes just getting that big and they're hard to perk up, or it's her strain, or what.
PSSS: Ok so my smallest and youngest plant seems to grow in size the slowest, but is shooting off new leafs and early stages than the others, weirdest part for me is that her second pair of leafs have always been kinda twisted and curled liek they never finished unfolding. Whats with that? It seems healthy, its just those first 2 won't finish unfolding all that way and its like someone gently twisted them. Any idea what that is all about? She grows in height the least, she grows new leafs earlier/faster than the others (she germinated and sprouted latest), and has healthy but curled first pair.
if your plants were sitting in standing water for hours you would have possibly to worry about stem rot.. but a few minutes wont make a bit of difference... think of an ebb and flow system like i have.. the stems sit in water 4 times a day for 15 minutes... not the entire stem.. but it shouldnt be any more than yours.. just try to limit how much stem gets soaked anyways... you dont want the leaves in the water... lol
roots pull dissolved oxygen from the water as they absorb water... so dont stress about their breathing room... as long as the soil isnt soaking wet like that all the time they will be fine and happy... just go from wet to dry then water...
they do show signs of being slightly over watered.. but that is going to be normal right now.. here is why... until now they have had little water to drink so they absorb it at a rate in which they can function... but its not been enough.. so now they are super watered and absorbed a lot at first to make up for their previous droughts... and the results are a little droop.. think of it like this... you eat very little for a few days... your stomach shrinks.. your body adjusts to survive on what little food you do eat.. then all of a sudden you pig out.. and you have a stomach ache.. its similar to that...
it could be the "stomach ache" or just the size of the leaves in general that are keeping them drooping on her.. she seems to have large leaves for as small as she is.. wouldnt surprise me if its a combo of the two...
it could just be a mutant pheno in the plant making the leaves curl.. i have a plant that is doing that.. since sprout its always been fucked up looking.. curled leaves and shit... as long as its growing just go with it!!
algeezy509
Active Member
i'm right there with sampson they deffinately look over watered big really wrincly leaves druping down hard but they still look good. Good luch bro
Ok so except for yesterday, I had been watering every 3 days because I was worried that they were getting too close to their dry weight (i took a container of the same size and filled it with the same mix of ocean forest and perlite and that weighed about 90 grams). I've read you don't want it to get too dry so I took that as, don't let them lose all their water weight/ they don't store much water they have to have it in the soil.
Yeah I had, up until yesterday and 1 time when I watered after 4 days, been watering them until they doubled their unwatered foxfarm/perlite mix weight without dripping out the bottom every 3 days (at that point they would get down to about 89-95 grams). I guess I should have taken into account that the soil was bagged with moisture in it anyway.
Ok I just reread what you said... And now I am confused. Before I soaked and watered them yesterday they hadn't been getting enough water? If watering until they dripped out the bottom every 3 days wasn't enough what should I have done? Before had I been watering them not often enough/not letting the soil keep enough moisture, so then each time I did water they were over watered? Now I'm not sure what I should do. Haha
Yeah I had, up until yesterday and 1 time when I watered after 4 days, been watering them until they doubled their unwatered foxfarm/perlite mix weight without dripping out the bottom every 3 days (at that point they would get down to about 89-95 grams). I guess I should have taken into account that the soil was bagged with moisture in it anyway.
Ok I just reread what you said... And now I am confused. Before I soaked and watered them yesterday they hadn't been getting enough water? If watering until they dripped out the bottom every 3 days wasn't enough what should I have done? Before had I been watering them not often enough/not letting the soil keep enough moisture, so then each time I did water they were over watered? Now I'm not sure what I should do. Haha
showhard2handle
Well-Known Member
Sampson, awesome to hear you are a stewie fan, I figured as much.
One more totally stupid newb question for ya bout the 'ol rooters that I forgot to ask.
I noticed after prepping (soaking, etc.) that I couldn't "pinch" the tops of the plugs closed (where the hole is, seed is launched, etc.)
Is it OK, (and is it what you do) to leave them in the rooter with no covering?
I went ahead & took an extra plug, tore away a very small piece from it, and gently placed over the top of each rooter to create a quasi-seal.
Again, I wanna know what you do.
Do you leave the beans in rooters w/ their fannies showin (starin at the light)? Or do you give them some "rigged" protection (like I did with extra material).
Lemme know if this makes no sense, or if you smellin what I'm cookin.
Also, I saw your remark about what to do if someone says roots only grow in dark. (Whcih I will def. take under advisement), but right now, should I give any darkness, or go 24/0- Til they pop there sweet little heads up.
Thanks brotha!
One more totally stupid newb question for ya bout the 'ol rooters that I forgot to ask.
I noticed after prepping (soaking, etc.) that I couldn't "pinch" the tops of the plugs closed (where the hole is, seed is launched, etc.)
Is it OK, (and is it what you do) to leave them in the rooter with no covering?
I went ahead & took an extra plug, tore away a very small piece from it, and gently placed over the top of each rooter to create a quasi-seal.
Again, I wanna know what you do.
Do you leave the beans in rooters w/ their fannies showin (starin at the light)? Or do you give them some "rigged" protection (like I did with extra material).
Lemme know if this makes no sense, or if you smellin what I'm cookin.
Also, I saw your remark about what to do if someone says roots only grow in dark. (Whcih I will def. take under advisement), but right now, should I give any darkness, or go 24/0- Til they pop there sweet little heads up.
Thanks brotha!
sactownsfinest41
Member
Hello there
is it really necessary to run co2 in my grow room ?
i've been having popcorn nugs, but i had pest problem so i fogged it like 3x, this might have slowed down the growth
I have a 4'' intake fan bringing in fresh air from outside into my tent, but i'm exhausting it with an 8'' exhaust fan in my 10x10 tent
im trying to have my buds look dense
i'm running 4 lamps in my 10x10 tent, my trays are 4x4, any suggestions on how many plants i can have in each tray without blocking the light of each other, these plants are also topped btw, they have several colas
if i do need co2, can you list what i would need, i believe its only a co2 tank and a regulator, but i want it to be self activated whenever it needs it
i heard that your only suppose to run the co2 for 15mins for every 2hrs
the ppm air outside is 300-400, and the co2 ppm should be set at 1500 (max)
any suggestions ??? thanks in advance all
is it really necessary to run co2 in my grow room ?
i've been having popcorn nugs, but i had pest problem so i fogged it like 3x, this might have slowed down the growth
I have a 4'' intake fan bringing in fresh air from outside into my tent, but i'm exhausting it with an 8'' exhaust fan in my 10x10 tent
im trying to have my buds look dense
i'm running 4 lamps in my 10x10 tent, my trays are 4x4, any suggestions on how many plants i can have in each tray without blocking the light of each other, these plants are also topped btw, they have several colas
if i do need co2, can you list what i would need, i believe its only a co2 tank and a regulator, but i want it to be self activated whenever it needs it
i heard that your only suppose to run the co2 for 15mins for every 2hrs
the ppm air outside is 300-400, and the co2 ppm should be set at 1500 (max)
any suggestions ??? thanks in advance all
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
basically when the soil gets dry it becomes hard and forms a layer of "crust" around each little soil piece.. when you water when the soil is completely dry some water will just run straight through basically, while some gets absorbed.. again, think like a shamey cloth that you moisten before it will absorb....
so ya, up until now your soil hasnt been holding the moisture that it needs.. and your plants regulatory system is based on how much water it has between waterings... well not specifically on the water itself.. but rather how much water is available.. for instance the plant wont kick itself into over drive growing if the water, nutes, lights, or anything else is missing from their needs...
let me try another way... since water was scarce, when you did water the plant absorbed a good amount right away to fill up and then regulated what it would use to make it through the next watering.. (obviously they dont know when they will actually be watered.. but i think you get the jist)... since now water was much more plentiful it absorbed even more than normal at first and somewhat water logged itself.. i know that sounds stupid.. but it really is what happened.. once your plant adjusts to the new amount of water you are feeding it there should be no issues...
the seed should be about 1/4" down the hole.. normally once its that deep it wont be able to be seen.. but if you are seeing it still setting up a rigged
"plug" like you did is fine... i do what i can to make sure the beans are in the dark inside the cube...
as far as outside the cube, normally they are under 24/0 from cube insertion until flowering.. but you dont HAVE to have light on them until they sprout.. i germinate in my veg room that almost always has lights going... so thats the main reason i have them under 24/0..
Ok I understand that but I don't know how much I should water now to fix that problem. Should I not let it get too close to very dry? If once every 3 days was not enough should I soak for a minute every 2 days? They definitely lost water weight a lot more the day after the soaking (only the biggest with the nute problem was soaked) and the watering with the nute water, than they have any other day after being watered. Really they just about lost water weight at a higher rate per hour than they ever have. Doing the math they lost water weight at a higher average per hour the day after than they did with the almost 11 hours of light right after that watering (although that time I watered them at about 1pm instead of 10am like normal). So I imagine that might be part of the soak up as much now in case there isn't anymore later thing. So what do you guys recommend I should do? Should I completely soak the cup in water for a minute every 2 days or something?
PS: the soil they are in is 2 parts FF Ocean Forest per 1 part perlite, in party red cups with the top couple inches cut off
PS: the soil they are in is 2 parts FF Ocean Forest per 1 part perlite, in party red cups with the top couple inches cut off
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
dont make it so hard bro...
when the soil is dry soak them throughly....
dont go by how many days are in between watering or how much weight they are losing how often or anything like that.. those are all variables.. your plant will use different amounts of water at different rates depending on its need at the specific time.... same thing with weight... as the plant grows weights will increase as well as how fast water gets used... just go by the soil and how dry it is... if you soak them right you'll know the soil is properly saturated... and when its dry you'll know its time to water again..
when the soil is dry soak them throughly....
dont go by how many days are in between watering or how much weight they are losing how often or anything like that.. those are all variables.. your plant will use different amounts of water at different rates depending on its need at the specific time.... same thing with weight... as the plant grows weights will increase as well as how fast water gets used... just go by the soil and how dry it is... if you soak them right you'll know the soil is properly saturated... and when its dry you'll know its time to water again..
Yeah I'm being too anal about it, thanks for the help. Question: Is there any reason not to recycle the water that drips out the bottom? The other day when I watered with the nute water I let the excess drip out the bottom back into the container i was using and then poured it back into a gallon water jug (little bits of dirt and perlite with it). Is there any reason not to do that?
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
yeah.. there actually is a reason not too use it.. its not good.... lol
heres why...
as your plant uses nutes and such there are salts that get left behind.. ideally not much.. but there is...
when you water, and the water travels through the soil, it picks up pieces of stuff.. such as the salts i was talking about, pieces of soil, and whatever else is located in the soil...
this means that the run off water is not the same as the water you originally just fed with...
since you cant be sure what is in it, how much of whats in it, if the ph changed, ect ect, its not a good idea to re use it...
its also not a good idea to pre mix nutes and let sit... they can form salts and shit that alter the make up of the nute mix..
heres why...
as your plant uses nutes and such there are salts that get left behind.. ideally not much.. but there is...
when you water, and the water travels through the soil, it picks up pieces of stuff.. such as the salts i was talking about, pieces of soil, and whatever else is located in the soil...
this means that the run off water is not the same as the water you originally just fed with...
since you cant be sure what is in it, how much of whats in it, if the ph changed, ect ect, its not a good idea to re use it...
its also not a good idea to pre mix nutes and let sit... they can form salts and shit that alter the make up of the nute mix..
Crap ok well i just fed them all that water again, this time just used a cereal bowl and poured a drinking cup of water over each one a few times while they sat in there also soaking in from the bottom. Yeah I have been just using distilled water cause I haven't gotten any ph testing stuff to check the tap water with and I figured I was better off with that for a moment. Ok will be dumping what I have left now. Yeah I was thinking to keep the runoff since it would have whatever goodies were washed out by the water, totally forgot about salts and such! 
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
it seems silly to throw out the run off water.. i know.. i used to think the same thing.. but like i said there is so much more that comes out of the run off than goes in.. so its not a good idea...
plus, nutes go so far.. i mean, a little goes a long way... so its a relatively small investment and loss (loss being what you throw out) in the end.. it isnt worth compromising your plants over it..
plus, nutes go so far.. i mean, a little goes a long way... so its a relatively small investment and loss (loss being what you throw out) in the end.. it isnt worth compromising your plants over it..
simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
well first off congrats... i know the feeling of the first sprout... this will be one of the quickest and longest periods of time you have ever gone through.. just know you have a good 8 weeks ahead of you.. and you cant speed it up... lol
so now down to business... from the looks of where they are at now you will have a good 4 or 5 days before they will be ready to put in the system... but i cant be for sure... in a couple days check and see if roots are coming out... if so take a pic and throw it up here and i'll tell you ya or na.. dont look on the bottom of the cube either.. the main tap root will pop out of there pretty quick.. you are wanting to see roots coming from the sides of the cube....
now if i remember right you have a 400w hps right?? regardless of what you have, once you move to the drip system you can move the light hps light over them.. the catch is that the stronger the light the further away you want it to be at first... the sprouts will be sensitive to heat and extreme light.. so you have to gradually decrease the distance between the light and the plant as it grows.. i would say 18" is a good start for a few days... then drop it down a few... but again i can kind of help you with that if you keep pics up..
go ahead and remove the dome... as long as the cube is moist the sprout will be able to get what it needs from the cube now... the dome is basically just a way to keep in heat and moisture until they sprout up from the cube..
so now down to business... from the looks of where they are at now you will have a good 4 or 5 days before they will be ready to put in the system... but i cant be for sure... in a couple days check and see if roots are coming out... if so take a pic and throw it up here and i'll tell you ya or na.. dont look on the bottom of the cube either.. the main tap root will pop out of there pretty quick.. you are wanting to see roots coming from the sides of the cube....
now if i remember right you have a 400w hps right?? regardless of what you have, once you move to the drip system you can move the light hps light over them.. the catch is that the stronger the light the further away you want it to be at first... the sprouts will be sensitive to heat and extreme light.. so you have to gradually decrease the distance between the light and the plant as it grows.. i would say 18" is a good start for a few days... then drop it down a few... but again i can kind of help you with that if you keep pics up..
go ahead and remove the dome... as long as the cube is moist the sprout will be able to get what it needs from the cube now... the dome is basically just a way to keep in heat and moisture until they sprout up from the cube..
showhard2handle
Well-Known Member
Right on brotha, dome off tonight.
Affirmative on the 400watt HPS (or halide, but pretty sure you advised against halide for due to heat). It isn't a high tech, fancy rig. With the cool tube, or ducting that hooks right to the light.
It's a standard bulb with just a "bat wing" style reflector (fairly cheapo).
My fan is positioned in the tent at approx. the level the light will be at.
I'll take pics of the v-drip set up in the tent w/ ducting & all that jazz to ascribe your prognosis.
SO 4-5 days, perfect, just what I needed. Def keep ya updated w/ pics.
I can't thank you enough, ur time & advice is obviously invaluable.
the picture titled 18 was taken a moment earlier tonight. 16 was taken the night of the soaking treatment with the nute water like you said, and the 14 and 15 were the 2 days up to that. Seeing how the smallest looks like its trying to curl up into a ball (or maybe that only seems so bad for the same reason its first couple leafs never unfolded all the way), and the leafs on the largest are drooping, and those of the 2nd largest are curling in, I am worried. I know you said that they would try to soak up extra because they didn't get watered often enough. But isn't there a greater risk with me over watering them as opposed to what I was doing before? I read everywhere the over watering is the #1 killer of plants for newbs like me. Before I was watering every 3 days, and aside from the dead end of the leafs on the largest they all seemed healthy. Would watering the same way I was before except every 2 days or less really be better for them? I'm just being a worry wart. I've seen first timers get successful runs on their first try with worse equipment so I am worried that I am still doing something wrong with the watering. *gosh I wish these plants weren't as picky haha*
PS: These pictures are taken between 9 and 11 every night, with pictures 18, and 16 they were watered about 1pm, and the last time they were watered before picture 15 was 9:30am the day before (watered until the containers were twice the weight before being watered without dripping, the 2 times after that was being soaked for about a minute*up to 50% heavier than the old method*
PS: These pictures are taken between 9 and 11 every night, with pictures 18, and 16 they were watered about 1pm, and the last time they were watered before picture 15 was 9:30am the day before (watered until the containers were twice the weight before being watered without dripping, the 2 times after that was being soaked for about a minute*up to 50% heavier than the old method*
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simpsonsampson420
Well-Known Member
over watering usually occurs from multiple waterings before the soil is dry... and takes a couple waterings to see it happen... so you shouldnt have that issue if you only soaked the 1 time....
the soil doesn't look like it is soaking wet either... it seems fine... is it really wet and i just cant see??
do you know the humidity in the room by chance?? and the temp???
your welcome..