Freedom Vs Statism & Religiosity
- Thread starter deprave
- Start date
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I know what mine is ... no provision to deal with the stompers of sand castles. cn
deprave
New Member
why not? Did I propose that? in regard to your other post no I did not, I never said anything about other laws , I simply said that everyone should be accountable for each moral principle set in a society, so why do you seem to think that I am proposing that those are the only laws or something?
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I'm trying to integrate what I think you're saying with what I think of how the world works. I'd welcome your help. cn
deprave
New Member
so everyone should be accountable for moral rules, such as no killing and stealing. So the same way we hold a bum on the street accountable for this we should hold a politician, a policeman, a government official, or a wealthy businessman. Implementing this into the real world - So we hold them accountable the same way and same degree as a bum on the street. That is all, I hope that helps.
ginwilly
Well-Known Member
I agree it SHOULD be this way but I think it's Utopian. Reality is the best lawyer or team of lawyers is a huge advantage over a public defendant. Law is too gray but I don't know how to make it black and white. Maybe the next age of enlightenment we get there.
deprave
New Member
you too? Utopian?
ginwilly
Well-Known Member
Probably a poor choice of words deprave, using Utopian. I believe as you do that laws should be equal for all men, no matter what. As we move to a more color blind society this will most definitely help. Reality is, blacks still get incarcerated for same crimes at a higher rate and longer sentencing than whites. Surely this can change simply with time, we are moving toward equality but we are not quite there yet. Legislation based on race retards this.
Two other things that tilt law in their favor is wealth and fame. See OJ as evidence. I don't see this changing. I see it getting worse. The hero worship and fascination with celebrities is increasing. I submit Casey Anthony, Zimmerman and politicians on late night talk shows to back my claim.
I understand the federal government plays a role in setting the tone for the country these days. If we limit their power, we limit this influence. I want a minimalist central government but am very pessimistic in this climate. Personal responsibility has become a buzzword instead of a reality. If we can blame our failures on something else, with the backing of a central government to enforce this "reality", it doesn't bode well for our future. That's why I used Utopian, not because of facts, but because of my own pessimism.
Two other things that tilt law in their favor is wealth and fame. See OJ as evidence. I don't see this changing. I see it getting worse. The hero worship and fascination with celebrities is increasing. I submit Casey Anthony, Zimmerman and politicians on late night talk shows to back my claim.
I understand the federal government plays a role in setting the tone for the country these days. If we limit their power, we limit this influence. I want a minimalist central government but am very pessimistic in this climate. Personal responsibility has become a buzzword instead of a reality. If we can blame our failures on something else, with the backing of a central government to enforce this "reality", it doesn't bode well for our future. That's why I used Utopian, not because of facts, but because of my own pessimism.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
It's a beautiful idea, but I see no way of making it stick. The real target is the seat/seats of power. If you cannot compel them to observe this moral code, which is a complete repudiation of the more natural and instinctive code of conduct laid out in Il Principe, it devolves to an armchair exercise of philosophy. For a system to work, it must co-opt or compel its would-be opponents.
A universal feature of human societies as far as our history can reach ... is the opposite of what you describe. Humans are excellent group-formers, dividers, exclusivists, seekers after advantage defined relative to the folks nearest you. Our sociopolitical nature is profoundly anti-egalitarian. This instinct for amassing power, for hierarchy, is what your philosophy wants to undo. To succeed, it must be stronger than our instinct to seek social power.
(And this is where I see the American vision failing. The federal/constitutional republic was a bold and marvelous experiment in installing an egalitarian counterweight to our hierarchic instinct. However, as technology and modern finance evolve faster than the state, they find effective ways to ignore the egalitarian controls of the state. We're a nominal Republic but we seem to be turning into an unofficially authoritarian quiltwork of interests. And I see the trend accelerating beyond the Republic's corrective capacities.)
And as it is not (proving stronger than the empire-building drive), I use the word "utopian", because your system as I see it relies on a frangible reinterpretation of our dual human natures: our "better nature" and the actual, into a mold that history suggests ... doesn't fit. Jmo. cn
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