How the wealthy constantly screw the poor

ttystikk said:

Stuck in the past, I guess. Seriously, I thought eating kosher was more common than you're telling me.

What the fuck is wrong with you, dissing me because I'm trying to keep up with cultural norms?

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even if every jew kept kosher, why would they force their employees to keep kosher by not buying them a ham?

UncleBuck said:

even if every jew kept kosher, why would they force their employees to keep kosher by not buying them a ham?

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Another good point. Was under the impression that if they wouldn't eat it, they wouldn't want to encourage others to, either.

But that how vegans think... Completely different.

ttystikk said:

class warfare

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Berners don't get to talk about class warfare. As long as the inflatable berner movement is the biggest obstacle to building an actual leftist movement, I would prefer berners do not go around appropriating radical leftist and marxist language.

ttystikk said:

What the fuck is wrong with you, dissing me because I'm trying to keep up with cultural norms?

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If you talk about any race at all, you're a racist to him. It's all he does anymore: call everybody a racist and a pedophile. It's what he lives for. He's become such a broken record over it now that I see no reason he's still here. He and Tampee should get a room. They were made for each other.

abandonconflict said:

Berners don't get to talk about class warfare. As long as the inflatable berner movement is the biggest obstacle to building an actual leftist movement, I would prefer berners do not go around appropriating radical leftist and marxist language.

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I think the rich have been winning the class war in America for most of my lifetime. I'm not stuck on Bernie, except to acknowledge that he's by far the most recognizable name on the Left in American politics. If that's what it takes to start things moving Left I'm all for it.

I hear your gripe that he's not much/enough of a Leftist. Realistically, who would be a better carrier of the Leftist banner?

As much as I get impatient with incrementalism, I also think that going the whole way in one shot is unrealistic.

Ralph Nader and Jill Stein have proven that more than once.

ttystikk said:

I think the rich have been winning the class war in America for most of my lifetime. I'm not stuck on Bernie, except to acknowledge that he's by far the most recognizable name on the Left in American politics. If that's what it takes to start things moving Left I'm all for it.

I hear your gripe that he's not much/enough of a Leftist. Realistically, who would be a better carrier of the Leftist banner?

As much as I get impatient with incrementalism, I also think that going the whole way in one shot is unrealistic.

Ralph Nader and Jill Stein have proven that more than once.

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My ideas (far left) are utterly unpalatable to you because you're a socdem. We have established that you disagree with them. That's why I am asking you not to appropriate far left language which has been coined and used by far leftists to express leftist goals and concepts.

Again, we have established firmly that you oppose revolution.

I don't support the Green Party. I briefly did give tentative and conditional support but only with the acknowledgement that there was a dearth of options to vote for anyone that was actually leftwing.

TacoMac said:

It's not hard to believe at all for me. I worked for a Muslim family that did the same thing. They wanted so very hard to do the right thing by us...almost to a fault.

One day I went looking for the bindery production manager, who was a black fellow and couldn't find him anywhere. I went up front and the receptionist was not there either. I finally went into the general manager (one of the family) and asked where the bindery manager was (I needed his figures to set schedules as I was the production manager).

He just looked at me as if I should have known and said, "Well, it's Martin Luther King day." as if that explained everything.

They had given only the black folks the day off paid.

It's how they roll, man.

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Me too. A Muslim Accountant and his wife gave me a $80 bottle of fragrance for Christams one year even though they don't celebrate..wrapped in Christmas paper etc.

He was the one who told me how scared he was when the towers went down..worried he and his family would be made to leave.

abandonconflict said:

My ideas (far left) are utterly unpalatable to you because you're a socdem. We have established that you disagree with them. That's why I am asking you not to appropriate far left language which has been coined and used by far leftists to express leftist goals and concepts.

Again, we have established firmly that you oppose revolution.

I don't support the Green Party. I briefly did give tentative and conditional support but only with the acknowledgement that there was a dearth of options to vote for anyone that was actually leftwing.

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I don't like Jill Stein some of the things she says/thinks..not presidential material.

UncleBuck said:

we're jewish and eat ham all the time. only about 1 in 5 jews keep kosher.

the fuck is wrong with these bernie lovers?

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And I know people who keep kosher and the wife sneaks shrimp while her husband isn't looking.

I used the meat silver for sour cream.

schuylaar said:

I don't like Jill Stein some of the things she says/thinks..not presidential material.

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Good for you. At least she isn't an imperial sheepdog for Hillary Clinton like Bernard. Also, you're the same person who blame black voters for Trump's election, so your opinion carries very little weight.

abandonconflict said:

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Utterly disingenuous.

ttystikk said:

Utterly disingenuous.

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How so? How is so called "democratic socialism" of Bernard the imperialist sheepdog (who campaigned for months in support of Hillary Clinton's candidacy for potus) any different from the socdem ideology of the party that killed Rosa Luxemburg?

po-tip: It's not and you're not a socialist.

abandonconflict said:

My ideas (far left) are utterly unpalatable to you because you're a socdem. We have established that you disagree with them. That's why I am asking you not to appropriate far left language which has been coined and used by far leftists to express leftist goals and concepts.

Again, we have established firmly that you oppose revolution.

I don't support the Green Party. I briefly did give tentative and conditional support but only with the acknowledgement that there was a dearth of options to vote for anyone that was actually leftwing.

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I haven't heard enough of your ideas to be able to make that judgement. My own personal positions are well to the left of Bernie's platform but I supported him as a step in the right direction. Having seen that he indeed did play sheepdog in the last election, I'm not sure I trust him going forward- and yet I don't see anyone else able to take up the cause. That cause isn't leftism for its own sake, just a fair shake for every American regardless of the size of their bank account.

If you want revolution in today's America, it will be your funeral. I just hope that you don't get a lot of other people killed with such rhetoric.

I think change for the better is possible. I'm not sure if the American people are up to the task.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure our country would rather destroy the planet in the long term rather than give up the chance to get rich in the short term, and the behavior of many of the oligarchs making headlines seems to bear me out.

ttystikk said:

If you want revolution in today's America, it will be your funeral. I just hope that you don't get a lot of other people killed with such rhetoric.

Frankly, I'm pretty sure our country would rather destroy the planet

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Do you not see the contradiction here? Investment opportunities seem to kill more people than genocide in a world with a colonial capitalist system.

abandonconflict said:

Do you not see the contradiction here? Investment opportunities seem to kill more people than genocide in a world with a colonial capitalist system.

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No contradiction; Revolution is short term, planetary destruction by extension of the status quo is long term.

Also, revolution in America, at least in the classic sense of armed insurrection, is a suicide mission and one I don't condone or think will succeed.

Our imperialist, militarist and increasingly fascist nation is indeed killing millions of innocent civilians worldwide. Genocide is debatable and perhaps beside the point in the larger argument.

My beef is with the oligarchs who have taken hold of nearly all of the reins of power and wield them to the short AND long term detriment of our society, not to mention all the rest of them.

Bernie didn't address that at all and it is one of his shortcomings, IMHO.

Berners are so confused.

abandonconflict said:

Berners are so confused.

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Fewer trite labels and more explanations of your positions might help.

ttystikk said:

Fewer trite labels and more explanations of your positions might help.

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My positions have nothing to do with my criticism of Bernard based on Bernard's positions. The position I hold above all others is that I'm not here to push my ideas and I certainly find it fallacious that one would wish to visit them in response to my critique of something unrelated.

If the labels don't fit you, don't respond to the usage of them.