bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i think the reason for illegality is what you said in the last part of your post.
I Need to be Comforted. Is America this Bad?
- Thread starter The Producer
- Start date
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
its the same drug. Read the first line of the crack cocaine article. this is a stupid argument. YOu are wrong. Crack cocaine, is Coacine, hence why it is called crack COCAINE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine
Cheech Wizard
Well-Known Member
crack is whack
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
Here are my assumptions as to why the government keeps Marijuana illegal.
1. The prison system is almost completely privatized around the nation now. That means that more prisoners = more profit for a private company. The politicians are HEAVILY invested in these firms and therefore are concerned about margins and stock prices. If thousands of criminals (maybe tens of thousands?) are released the stock will go down and the invested politicians will lose SERIOUS amounts of money.
2. Cotton, alcohol, oill, and the pharmaceutical companies are VERY interested in keeping Marijuana and Hemp from ever being grown in the U.S. I haven't purchased Excedrin in MONTHS because marijuana kicks my migraine headaches in the a$$. I sleep better with MJ than I do with any of the available sleep aids, that's money that the pharmaceutical companies lose to legalization. Hemp kicks cotton, wood, and petroleum products in the a$$ too. Hemp makes paper that is more durable, more environmentally friendly, and cheaper to make than wood pulp. Hemp makes fiber that blows cotton away as far as durability and comfort. Hemp oils can lubricate better than petroleum and also burn cleaner than petroleum making them ideal fuels for cars. Alcohol is the #1 legally sold product in the US. I don't know a single investor who doesn't hold Anheiser Busch stock. Liqueur makes people aggressive, depressed, violent and dangerous. Marijuana does the complete opposite (depending on strains of course) which would be a bigger seller. The one that has a side effect of making you beat your wife or one that has a side of effect of making the Grateful Dead sound good? MJ and Hemp are completely superior to all of the above products which are EXTREMELY vital to the wealth of the wealthy. They would literally lose millions and possibly billions if MJ were legalized to the point that it could upset those 4 industries.
3. Fear. The damage done from Reefer Madness to This s your brain on drugs to Just Say No to 'If you do drugs you support Terrorism' all had seriously lasting effects on the populace. While we know these claims to be false, some casual or short term users still believe that all of the above are true. The fear festers deep within our culture and admit it or not at one point I would guess that many of us here were 'afraid' of the ganja. I know my first toke scared the shit out of me. The fear holds true in our society and as long as the myth is perpetuated the fear will continue for generations.
4. Pop culture. While the internet, everbodysdoingit.com, rollitup.com, and every movie that comes out shows that marijuana is part of our culture and will stay here for ever. The general characteristics displayed in pop culture are negative. Think of the avatars here, Towly, various 'stoner' images, Cheech and Chong, Dazed and Confused, none depict a responsible toker. They show the absolute worse of our population as a comedic tool. Our society doesn't know how to separate fact from fiction.
The PhD who is nationally recognized for her works in Chemistry is never depicted. Yet I got stoned with her last month. The world class mathematician who's published in 20 languages and respected around the world, who I also got stoned with, isn't shown on TV. Me, the network technician who keeps various networks around the nation up and running 24/7 and wears business clothes most the time isn't depicted on TV or movies. Who is depicted? Idiots like Dave Chapel, Doug Benson, Seth Rogan, people who make their living making fun of the culture are who appears in the media. People fear that's what will become of everyone if MJ is legalized.
Those are just 4 of the reasons I can think of right now. I've got a horrid head cold and am not functioning anywhere near where I should be, Dayquill debilitates my brain far more than weed ever did.
-RT76
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
I'm too tired and sick for this ... YOU read the first line ...
Go take Chem 101 - 400 at your local university and figure out what happens when something is COOKED and BURNED. I wrote an entire paper on the effects of cooking cocaine and how it changed it on the molecular level 10 years ago.
Anything that is COOKED changes on the molecular level. Your meat, your vegetables, your weed. Everything goes through a chemical change when enough heat is applied. If Crack and Coke were the exact same thing they would have the exact same effects on a person, they don't.
I still think that the mandatory minimums should be removed, but I don't think that Crack OR Cocaine should EVER be legal, they are both too strong. Given my choice I'll take coke over crack any day of the week.
-RT76
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
the only reason the effect is different is because 1 is smoked and 1 is snorted different speeds of entering the blood stream. similar to ingesting cannabis as opposed to smoking it. if you inject cocaine hcl youll get similar effects as crack as it enters the blood faster and the addiction will be just as bad if not worse. its really quite simple its the same drug once it passes the blood brain barrier lets move on now please.
theloadeddragon
Well-Known Member
I understand what you mean, but the better question is can you do something about it? Even more pressing: Will you?
GET UP STAND UP STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!!!!!
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
easier said than done unfortunately thats how the game is set up. sadly blood shed is normally needed for big changes to happen.
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
i dont remember the exact quote but i believe it was 1 of the founding fathers who said something like 'every 20 years the liberty tree should be refreshed with the blood of patriots'
The Producer
Active Member
RT76,
Wow. Thanks mate. That was awesome. I have heard a couple of those points from previous research and documentaries which brings me to ask you if you have seen "American Drug War: The Last White Hope?" It is amazing!! A couple of your points are also brought up in the film and I just hope you and many have seen it. I completely forgot about the prison system point and that is a good one. I was also aware of the damage it would do to the tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical industries and I am aware of hemp but I never knew the benefits, so thanks for brining that up. That was interesting to read about. So overall thanks RT76.
Wow. Thanks mate. That was awesome. I have heard a couple of those points from previous research and documentaries which brings me to ask you if you have seen "American Drug War: The Last White Hope?" It is amazing!! A couple of your points are also brought up in the film and I just hope you and many have seen it. I completely forgot about the prison system point and that is a good one. I was also aware of the damage it would do to the tobacco, alcohol, and pharmaceutical industries and I am aware of hemp but I never knew the benefits, so thanks for brining that up. That was interesting to read about. So overall thanks RT76.
And not to question you or mock you because I am right there with you. I believe the pot culture needs to be doing more and bigger things but what would you suggest?
hom36rown
Well-Known Member
Ive taken chem 101 thanks, and you dont BURN crack to make it into crack. Heat isnt even necessary for the reaction, its a a catalyst, its the baking soda that reacts with the HCl molecule making the reaction. Im aware theat Crack is a different molecule due to the fact that the HCl molecule is gone, BUT ITS STILL COMPLETELY THE SAME IN THE BRAIN. The HCl molecule in powdered cocaine does not change the effects of powdered cocaine. Many pharmaceutical drugs have to be made into a salt of HCl so they can be made into a pill, this doest not change the effects of the actual drug.
The Producer
Active Member
I don't want to sound like some crazy guy spitting out crazy theories and such but I agree with that entirely. I believe something BIG must happen and should happen as soon as possible. I believe anyone that would go through the electoral process has gone through enough to become tainted by "their" views and that is something to me that MUST be stopped. I believe the entire political system is a success and was drawn out by some of the smartest men to bless this country with their presence but the men and women who have gotten into the positions they have are far from what those men stood for and EVERY politician in my opinion should be removed and replaced until they too (the replacements) become tainted. Now that I think about it, this sounds a lot like the movie Gladiator. Haha
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
When I made crack for my dealer (I was a poor highschool kid) it was baking soda, cocaine and then water to make it a paste. Roll the paste out on a cookie sheet and cook it, I don't know what he set the oven at. Take it out and break it into rocks. If that's changed since the early 90's I don't know, but I had to cook the crack for him.
The chemical is the same in the brain that is true, the effects it has due to the higher concentration, created by the cooking (and smoking) process, create an extremely elevated reaction in the brain. The exact chemical, HCl may be the same, but the delivery is not the same nor is the concentration.
Roll your eyes if you wish but you are correct. For example Amoxicillin (something I'm horridly allergic to) in pill form requires a low dosage over an extended period of time for it to work. The intravenus application of amoxicillin however has an immediate effect. The 'medical' aspects of Amoicillin are the same for me, however the pill will put me in the hospital while the shot won't, it's the delivery process of the pill that I'm allergic to.Many pharmaceutical drugs have to be made into a salt of HCl so they can be made into a pill, this doest not change the effects of the actual drug.
The same applies to Crack v. Cocain, the delivery process iteself (the molecular difference) has it's own effects including the more highly concentrated bombarding of the system. Snort cocaine will not do the same thing as smoking cocaine, smoking crack will not do the same thing as smoking cocain on a blunt, shooting cocain does not do the same thing as either snorting or crack.
Just like Marijuana, Smoke, Vape, eat it each one has a different aspect to the high because of the differences of the delivery. With MJ they are subtle because MJ should always be the pure flower of cannabis.
Hash, which I've unfortunately never had the honor of, I have heard to many people is far too potent to smoke on a regular basis, yet it really is just the trichomes of the flower (depending on extraction method.) I assume that Beutane extraction or Ascetone extraction would leave some sort of reaction with the THC making it a different high than bubble or ice hash. If I ever do smoke hash it will be stuff I've made, I don't trust dealers or distributers to put the effort into bubble/ice hash.
Oddly, three damned pages of this and I think that when we FINALLY got to the meat of the matter we ultimately agree.
Summery.
Coke and crack are not molecule for molecule identical.
Coke and crack have the same 'active' chemical.
Crack is absorbed differently when smoked than snorted coke.
Now the point of disagrement. Are Coke and Crack the same drug. I say no because the displayed effects on the person are not identical. You say yes because the active ingredient is the same chemical. Hince this argument is more one of biological vs. behavioral than anything else (great we've joined the ranks of every scientist on earth who argues this point.)
Ok I'm going to take a pull off the vape and see if that helps me stop feeling utterly misserable from this head cold. I'm out.
-RT76
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
Thomas Jefferson: "God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."
That's my favorite quote of his.
-RT76
The Producer
Active Member
That gave me goosebumps. Haha
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
hash made with butane extraction rocks as potent as it gets with no lab. ive also dissolved butane extracted hash into alcohol and drank that the only problem or not a problem is that your high the next day.
RetiredToker76
Well-Known Member
As I said, I wouldn't know. The thought of putting heat to something extracted with either butane or acetone (both flammable and lethal chemicals) is not something I'm interested in. They may rock but all the same when I get the chance I'll stick with bubble or ice. To my knowledge with the exception of drowning, no one has ever had an adverse reaction to water.
-RT76
theloadeddragon
Well-Known Member
Your right. The constitution allows for a complete reform, but it has to be petitioned and voted for. Very Very Very difficult, your going to find a lot of critics of wiping the slate clean out or their fears of losing what little rights people still have.
A new constitution based in part on the original one would be better. However, the entire economical structure should be different in my opinion, i.e. abolishing monetary currency all together and transitioning to an informational system instead.
Im sure that if you get enough people in on reconstructing the constitution, than enough people should also realize that any economy based on currency will fail.
bicycle racer
Well-Known Member
nice you found the qoute i was speaking of. it was easier to keep a clear head in those days i suspect. anyways butane extracted hash is very safe no heat is involved in any way pm me if you would like i will explain the process it is very simple. there is no danger if you have coomon sense. i am an athlete and very concerned with my health i only vaporize anything i inhale. butane extraction is a great way to remove all thc from your excess plant matter.