If atheist don't have Faith, how do They buy Faith n Evolution???

Dick Moser

Active Member
ok. then tellme what am i missing. fill me in. dont cut me out cause im a heathen, PLEASE enlighten me, make me better through your wisdom. shine the light of true faith upon me (and no im not asking to be "touched") but reach me.
 

Papa Raazi

Member
The problem is that every one that debates that idea, simply states that if you don't believe it, you must be stupid.

People are full of shit. You need to bring more then name calling to the table to convince a Christian of something.

But you are right. My mind is made up.
I like my church, my friends, and I have deep spiritual reasons for my faith.
Cool, thats fine, but forcing you're religion on others isn't. I think everyone has the right to believe whatever the fuck they want to and if they decide to force their religion on others they better be prepared to take massive criticism. I really don't know what you're trying to accomplish. I guess you're just trolling.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
It seems more sinister when clergy molest children because of several reasons. For one thing, many take a vow of chasity which means you should be able to trust them above others, if you trust their word. Priests are suppose to have their ear to god's mouth and interpret his word. The clergy seems to attract a disproportionate amount of pedophiles (I don't know if this is true or just seems that way because of so many headlines) and some may conclude that if priests live in god's influence, and priests have a higher rate of pedophilia than other groups of people, perhaps god likes little boys. Lastly the lengths they have gone to cover up the crimes is appalling.

But personally I have to agree with weed4cash on this one, the subject of priests molesting children is a poor way to attack religion.


The bible is the beginning of faith. Not faith it self. Just like Darwin is the beginning of beliefe in evolution.

Faith is the belief in something for which there is no evidence. Faith is giving yourself permission to believe something when there is no real reason to. Faith stops us from asking questions without providing any answers. Faith is persisting in delusion for the sake of comfort.

When scientists have faith, it is a very different kind of faith. It is in fact opposite of religious faith. Scientific faith is based on results and replication. If I drop a pencil off a building 9 times and each time gravity pulls it to the ground, I have faith that on the tenth time gravity will do it again.

Is Darwin real? All we have is books. So should we believe that Darwin is real? How can you prove he is real? Can I sit down with him and ask him questions?
If you can rely on history then why can't Christians?

Christians rely on history only when it agrees with them. We know Darwin was real because, he was not invisible, we have documented communications, he left bones...


I never understood why Atheist use gravity to debunk God. Gravity is a law. Do laws happen by accident?

Gravity is often brought up because of the similarities. We can not perceive gravity, just as we can not perceive god. The difference is, we can still detect, document and measure gravity. Gravity has been well explained and makes it unnecessary to go looking for extra explanations to further describe what's happening. Evolution is similar in that it sufficiently explains how life evolved naturally, without the need for divine intervention. It is not necessary to go looking for further explanation in religion.
At the same time however, evolution itself does not conclude that god does not exist. That conclusion is drawn by others outside the theory itself.

I see the world and it's proof of God because it is made up of laws. Who can honestly say that chaos makes laws? Every thing around us screams a creator not an accident.

This is the argument from personal incredulity which basically says, I can not understand or explain this, therefore it must be unexplainable or untrue. Simply because you can not fathom how the universe became fine tuned naturally, doesn't mean it didn't happen that way.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Yes, but I wonder if you will be saying a silent prayer some day when science fails you.

We will see.
True, speaking in terms of health and life extension, in the end science will indeed fail you. It's only after your death that religion will fail you.


"Faith is a fine invention, when gentlemen can see - But microscopes are prudent, in an emergency"
- Emily Dickinson
 

canuckgrow

Well-Known Member
Wow, free thinkers. Yes I know all about free thinkers. They are the kids in schools today that freely think they can BLOW other kids away.

And then there are the gangs of free thinking people killing each other because they REPRESENT a different set of people that FREE think.

And then there are the free thinking women that are spreading AIDS accross America.

And what do you know. Religion taught us NOT to be those WONDERFUL people.

Thank goodness religion is dead.

Well, I guess you better not look in the phone book under church. There wouldn't possibly even be a secion for those.....

God is dead right?
So its only the women spreading Aids? WoW buddy we need to get together and discuss how I can help you to realize your full investment potential....Just sign here on this dotted line at the bottom of this blank page and I will take care of everything for you...Don't worry I have faith LOL.
God can't be dead because he was never alive...never existed...never did a god damn good thing on this earth. In fact if you objectively look at every single war in history, they were all fought in the name of one god or another. So maybe the religious folks have it all backwards.....Maybe it is actually heaven that is the bad place where little boys get buggered while the women get to spread disease. Maybe Hell is like this kewl place where they play Slayer and Venom for eternity and all women have perfect boobs and bums and serve Mug root beer and refill the bongs all day with Evil Weed. HELL AWAITS.
 

canuckgrow

Well-Known Member
It seems more sinister when clergy molest children because of several reasons. For one thing, many take a vow of chasity which means you should be able to trust them above others, if you trust their word. Priests are suppose to have their ear to god's mouth and interpret his word. The clergy seems to attract a disproportionate amount of pedophiles (I don't know if this is true or just seems that way because of so many headlines) and some may conclude that if priests live in god's influence, and priests have a higher rate of pedophilia than other groups of people, perhaps god likes little boys. Lastly the lengths they have gone to cover up the crimes is appalling.

But personally I have to agree with weed4cash on this one, the subject of priests molesting children is a poor way to attack religion.
Priests molest children because their religion tells them they need to be celibate. Which is so against nature it is almost impossible for most to actually accomplish celibacy.
I'm just a normal average guy who starts to get pretty cranky after about 2 weeks of no sexual contact. If I had to go 20-30-40-50 years without sex? OMFG not positive but I'm pretty sure that a watermelon warmed up in the microwave would start looking good to me after a while. So you take a fully grown man and make him abstain from sex for eternity and then let him be in charge of innocent children for Sunday afternoon. This makes no sense,,, In fact I would go as far to say that the church is responsible as well.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Priests molest children because their religion tells them they need to be celibate. Which is so against nature it is almost impossible for most to actually accomplish celibacy.
I'm just a normal average guy who starts to get pretty cranky after about 2 weeks of no sexual contact. If I had to go 20-30-40-50 years without sex? OMFG not positive but I'm pretty sure that a watermelon warmed up in the microwave would start looking good to me after a while. So you take a fully grown man and make him abstain from sex for eternity and then let him be in charge of innocent children for Sunday afternoon. This makes no sense... In fact I would go as far to say that the church is responsible as well.
Ridiculous. Priests don't molest children because the are frustrated from celibacy. They have sex with women for that reason, and some have sex for men for that reason, but pedophiles molest children because they want to. I don't care how long I go without sex, children will never start looking good.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
The bible is the beginning of faith. Not faith it self. Just like Darwin is the beginning of beliefe in evolution.

Is Darwin real? All we have is books. So should we believe that Darwin is real? How can you prove he is real? Can I sit down with him and ask him questions?
If you can rely on history then why can't Christians?


I never understood why Atheist use gravity to debunk God. Gravity is a law. Do laws happen by accident?

I see the world and it's proof of God because it is made up of laws. Who can honestly say that chaos makes laws? Every thing around us screams a creator not an accident.

So why gravity?
I dont care whether Darwin was real or not. I was talking about the PROOF via the BONES... They didnt disappear when Darwin died.

I am not relying on history, I am relying on the carbon dating of the bones. And you can still do that today in experiments whether Darwin existed or not.

The theory of evolution has *EVOLVED* after Darwin's death. It was not simply enshrined in a book and called the truth...

Show me some evidence some PROOF that God exists or existed.

I see the world and it's proof of God because it is made up of laws.
And I see the world and it's proof of science and evolution because it is made up of laws. You are basing your ideas upon faith. Essentially you are saying, because there are laws there must be god and that is where logic fails you.

Every thing around us screams a creator not an accident.
I am not saying that there was not a creator. I am saying organized religion is a lie. I am saying the earth isnt 6000 years old (proven by science) and that dinosaur bones were not created by Satan to confuse believers.

Gravity is a law because everyone agrees that it exists. HOWEVER... There was a time where almost everybody believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe. WHOOPS!!! Fortunately... Science EVOLVED with our understanding to realize our true place in the universe. And it did that between the time of the supposed life of Jesus and now. And in that time all you still have is that dusty book that someone promises you is the truth.

So, maybe one day Science will evolve enough to explain why people feel the need to follow something even if it is an invisible being...


Maybe... Science will EVOLVE enough to tell us one day where our place is in the Creator's eye...
 

weed4cash

Active Member
The problem with a lot of you is you have a philosophical prejudice. You BELIEVE but you can't fathom a different kind of belief.

Christians at least accept other religious ideas. We are willing to listen and talk to a buddist, a satanist, an athiest, a paganist.

We don't think they are right, but we will listen and share our own ideas.

But if you are philosophicly prejudice, well is there any reason to even be here?
 

weed4cash

Active Member
I dont care whether Darwin was real or not. I was talking about the PROOF via the BONES... They didnt disappear when Darwin died.

I am not relying on history, I am relying on the carbon dating of the bones. And you can still do that today in experiments whether Darwin existed or not.

The theory of evolution has *EVOLVED* after Darwin's death. It was not simply enshrined in a book and called the truth...

Show me some evidence some PROOF that God exists or existed.

And I see the world and it's proof of science and evolution because it is made up of laws. You are basing your ideas upon faith. Essentially you are saying, because there are laws there must be god and that is where logic fails you.



I am not saying that there was not a creator. I am saying organized religion is a lie. I am saying the earth isnt 6000 years old (proven by science) and that dinosaur bones were not created by Satan to confuse believers.

Gravity is a law because everyone agrees that it exists. HOWEVER... There was a time where almost everybody believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe. WHOOPS!!! Fortunately... Science EVOLVED with our understanding to realize our true place in the universe. And it did that between the time of the supposed life of Jesus and now. And in that time all you still have is that dusty book that someone promises you is the truth.

So, maybe one day Science will evolve enough to explain why people feel the need to follow something even if it is an invisible being...


Maybe... Science will EVOLVE enough to tell us one day where our place is in the Creator's eye...
To see God you need to understand how God works. Its like saying show me proof of the wind.
You can't see it so we need another method of proving it's existance.

In the case of God the best evidence we have is his written word. But it's not just written it is the LIVING word.

That means that there are things in the bible that will actually HAPPEN.

This is called prophecy. This is the best proof I can give of God.
Now a second proof of God is a divine proof. This is proof in your heart. But to recieve this proof you must be willing to subject your self to reading and praying. This is proof saved only for those who "hear the word and allow it to take root in their heart and see the fruit of the Word of God, by repenting and living by it's teachings. (and in most cases joining a church) This is the MOST convincing proof of God, because when you change your life God can then bless you.

But since you have no desire to take the SECOND rought I will concentrate on the first. Proof by living revelation.

Any self respected hisorian will admite Jesus is real. No question there.
So we will skip the bullshit and get to the point: why you don't want to believe

Most people reject the scriptures for three reasons:
1. Ignorance - Romans 1:18 or Matthew 22:29
2. Pride - John 5:40
3. Moral problems - John 3:19, 20

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30aBackbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Yes, Christianity takes work. It has boundries, there are limits. But with in those limits the possibilities are endless because beyond the limits is self destruction.

The Bible is the greatist tool we will ever have to liberate our selves to unlimited potential, because it takes away all the stumbling blocks that will limit our potential to be what God entended us to be.

When we get past all the evils of our heart, we liberate our self from those self defeating things.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
To see God you need to understand how God works. Its like saying show me proof of the wind.
You can't see it so we need another method of proving it's existance.
Yes, and you have no proof. I have the bones that I can hold in my hand and do experiments on.
You have a book that you say is the truth and...

That means that there are things in the bible that will actually HAPPEN.
Nothing has HAPPENED in a couple thousand years. Now I know that god might be tired after creating the universe but you have no PROOF of anything...

But to recieve this proof you must be willing to subject your self to reading and praying.
Yeah, you got to have Faith... You just have to believe in a magical being of which there is no PROOF.

And then you start quoting a book. Hey, I dont have one of Darwin's books handy but wouldnt you feel kind of annoyed if I started quoting from it??? You know.. Since you questioned his existance... How would it be PROOF of anything???

You are still desperately trying to somehow show that your faith and belief that everything exists becuase of a god and not just by accident is based on proof but then you jump to faith. I still have the bones, you still have a dusty book that you swear *by god* is true... I trust the bones.
 

weed4cash

Active Member
A french philosopher once wrote: "The evidence of God's existence and His gift is more then compelling but those who insist that they have no need of Him or it will always find ways to discount the offer.
 

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
A french philosopher once wrote: "The evidence of God's existence and His gift is more then compelling but those who insist that they have no need of Him or it will always find ways to discount the offer.
Yet he gives no evidence


A wise American man once said "Those afraid of the universe as it really is, those who pretend to nonexistent knowledge and envision a cosmos centered on human beings will prefer the fleeting comforts of superstition. They avoid rather than confront the world. But those with the courage to explore the weave and structure of the Cosmos, even where it differs profoundly from their wishes and prejudices, will penetrate its deepest mysteries."
 

Johnnyorganic

Well-Known Member
Wow. This is actually happening.

Okay, OP. I'm going to ask you a question and I want you to answer it honestly.

If he were in your situation right now, What would Jesus do?

I only ask because I sincerely doubt you bothered to ask.

Would he come to a forum hurling insults at unbelievers? Calling them ignorant? Swearing at them?

Has it occurred to you that your boorish behavior is actually pushing people away who might otherwise be open to your beliefs? That you are merely a foil allowing the rest of us who cherish our lack of faith just as zealously as you do your faith, to present logical rebuttals?

In other words, you are making us look good by comparison. The unbelievers have been doing the cheek-turning.

Your original post started out as an attack. This whole thread is an attack, but that's okay. I'm not really concerned about its effect on the rest of us.

I'm more concerned with what kind of god would sanction the behavior you have put on display here in this forum.

Ghandi said "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
 

Unequalibrium

Active Member
Look how irate Weed4Cash is getting over religion. Typical church freak. Religion is just a made up faith man came up with to fill the empty spot in his mind that needs to know where he came from and where he's going to go when he dies. That's why there are so many different religions around the world.
Religion breeds hostility in almost every corner of the world. Christians bash those who aren't Christian all while doing the things that they preach to others not to do. Also Christian's try to tell other people their religion is wrong and force their beliefs down their throats ALL OVER THE WORLD. Jehovah's witnesses knock at your door and try to convert you to their faith. Radical Muslims want to destroy people that aren't from their belief or don't live as they see fit. Religion is GARBAGE.
Sure, it's not comforting knowing that when you die, that's it. But don't make up a bunch of mumbo jumbo and present it as fact just to make yourself feel better. Which unfortunately humans have been doing for a long time before science proved it all wrong. The ones that deny science are just afraid to admit that when they die, they cease to exist permanently.
Look at the size of our solar system, "The Milky Way". There are hundreds of solar systems that are now partly visible due to advances in science. And space doesn't end people, it goes on indefinitely. Which means millions and billions more solar systems are out there. Surely some of those planets in some of those systems are in the right spot just like earth. Not too cold, not too warm to sustain water and life. Where does GOD fit in here? It doesn't.
And another thing I hate about Christians is how they portray Jesus as a fucking white guy. Sorry but there weren't whites around Jerusalem back then. Just arabs. Fuck religion.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Is that really what you are going to bring to this debate. Wow. How much have you been smoking?
Pedophiles are pedophiles. Have you guys ever watched To Catch a Predator?
They are any one and any where.
Should we protect children if we know a person is a pedophile? Of course. But should we assume a religion is wrong because pedophiles are among us. No
That’s the shallowest fucking thing I have ever heard. Is that really the base for your argument that God is not real???
It’s like me saying I know a scientist that is a pedophile so evolution must be false.
My church has never tolerated a know predator. Ever. How do you know who they are? Ever see any one walking around with a shirt that say Hi, I’m a child molester?
You probably have one in your own family and don’t even know it.
Does that make your family not real?
"if god were real he would not allow child molesters."

yes, i truly BELIEVE that.

unless you can give me a good reason why we need them.

so what's the point of religion again? to be able to molest children and be forgiven? ;)
 
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