Kynes-
This is my last real thought on this topic for the time being-
You sit there and one minute try to play that Israel is defending itself. Then you say they are the aggressors, but that they are showing "restraint". Which is it? You can't be playing defense and offense at the sametime, despite the old saying.
Israel took the gaza strip and the west bank (as well and several other territories long since returned) in a DEFENSIVE WAR started by the arab alliance in 1967. gaza and the west banmk are still held as military occupation zones because it's not part of israel (according to the UN borders cant change any more without their approval) and it happens to be inhabioted by people who are not that friendly to israel. this is not a unique situation in history, it happens to be a violent powderkeg as a result of radicals on all sides and outside agitators fanning the flames. your simplistic schoolyard bully vs innocent victim analysis is entirely unsuited to this issue.
You call on able bodied men to continue fighting, rather then search for peace. This is where I know you are unreachable. Anyman who has never fought in combat, yet calls for war, is not someone who is basing their statements in fact or logic. So why would I continue a discussion with you?
i call on nobody to make war. i just refuse to accuse israel of "atrocities" when they have been in constant conflict with these guys since 1967, and engaged in sporadice conflict with that society/religion since it's founding in 700ish AD. Islam's track record for "peace" is very thin, and ragged, nop lace in the world does islam go where they do not bring unrest, violence and hatred for the "kaffir" . even the hindus and buddhists cant co-exist with islam.
Everytime I make mention of the fact that you are a coward,
learn what facts are mister 'no more personal attacks"
which is what someone who has never seen war but calls for it is, you try and give these limpwristed "You're trying to be a toughguy!" speeches.
you make the billy badass remarks and bold statements about your personal prowess in war like a lot of guys i have met. they always find an excuse to drop in their former military service in every conversation, use that presupposed honor as a magic cloak to protect them and their opinions from any criticism, and generally act like they are all Ramboesque former SOG team leaders with a triple blackbelt in every martial art on the planet. unfortunately they all seem to have the same MOS...
Far from it actually. My stance is PEACE. I don't care which side you support, both have blood on their hands. What i've been trying to empart to you these past few days, is the fact that if Israel wants to try to claim the moral highground against what you call "terrorists" then it has to conduct itself accordingly.
the moral highground wins battles in the press. unfortunately hamas and hezzbollah dont count ther successes in facebook Likes or twitter followers. they prefer a bodycount. the only way to fight them is to actually fight them, and israel has done it with LESS collateral damage than the US ever has managed in an occupation.
Respect is giving, not earned.
uhhh riiiiight... i think you got that backwards, but then it would explain a lot.
I hope that the results of Arafat's toxscreen come back negative for polonium210. Because if Mossad had a traceable hand in killing him, then we will all be in for a long winter. And before you start flying off the handle and shitting your pants, yes, Arafat was a combatant and his death is not something I care much about. It is the ripple of chaos that will ensue, atop the lake of blood currently in the process being spilled, that worries me. Blood doesn't wash off blood, it just opens the door for more to spill.
arafat was a crooked profiteer and misery pimp. he only receives favorable comparisons when lined up alongside stalin pol pot and chariman mao. i dont care if mossad tortured him to death with celine dion records and john travolta movies. his death was well deserved.
Your Quran link is completely bogus.
this link?
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/9341
because as stated, this is from the hadith NOT the koran. also as stated i have no desirte to wade through that shitty poorly crafted 7th century fanfiction again. it is also NOT bogus at all. claiming it is bogus shows you are in fact COMPLETELY FULL OF SHIT!
I wouldn't be surprised if that translator also sold "Bibles" in Baghdad. I don't know if you are familiar with the Old Testament or not, but it's got some pretty interesting material in there too. Maybe try citing that sometime, might give you a little perspective on the fact that ALL RELIGIONS ARE NUTTY.
that translator is in fact the site operator, or in his own words:
"All questions and answers on this site have been prepared, approved, revised, edited, amended or annotated by Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid, the supervisor of this site. "
~http://islamqa.info/en/ref/islamqapages/2
You keep writing off Breivik as an "extremist", but then can't turn back around and apply the same scope to Palestinians/arabs in general. If you honestly believe in your heart that one race of people is by definition morally superior to another based off of their faith or is justified in kill another because of that faith, then this entire conversation was pointless because your understanding of humanity is flawed beyong repair. Arabs want what we want, the chance to raise their kids. And yet, because of the vocal calls to jihad trumpeted by a decent-size yet still minority faction within the Islamic (notice there IS a difference between the two, arabs and muslims) community, you call all arabs murderers. What if everyone viewed Christians'/white people through the lense of the Westboro flock, or said that we must all be killers like Breivik? You'd be offended even if you aren't a Christian because you would feel like you were being lumped in with them because you are a white western male. That outrage by association is what groups like Hamas fill their ranks with, because they are the only available avenue to vent against perceived wrongs.
breivik was a solo nutcase. hamas hezzbollah and the al aqsa brigade are NOT solo nutcases they are organised nutcases with websites, tv stations, radio programs, recruiting posts, bomb factoeries, rocket factories, financial enterprises, and a surprisingly broad level of popular support in the moslem world. repeating the fictionm that moslem extremism is rare does not make it true. likewise the actions of charlie manson do not in any way balance negate, justify or even excuse the actions of yasser arafat, or even Idi Amin (who was also a cannibal)
A side note from earlier too; Seperation of Church and State, though not a directly mandated and outlined concept, has been a guiding principle of this nation since it's founding. For you to argue differently is just sad. You sound like those people who say this is a "Christian Nation"..this is a Free Nation. Does it have problems? You bet. But the answer is certainly not establishing a Judeo-Christian oligarchy (I know, you weren't calling for that right? Well, taking any religion above another is doing exactly that in a sense).
the wall of separation between church and state is NOT a founding principle. up till the early 1900's many states still had official state religions. the prohibition on religious tests for office is a founding principle, but it includes a prohibition on disqualification by holding ANY religious views, not just unpopular ones. this includes protection for athiests, as well as protection for memebrs of religions FROM atheists.
also, i think you mean Theocracy, not oligarchy. oligarchy is rule by finance or moneyed interests.
If you don't believe in defending what this nation stands for, why were you in a rush to join up gramps? Wanted to blast on some Iraqis for kicks?
i dont have to justify myself to you. my reasons are my own, and you havent earned access to that information.
My final thought is this;
You can, and undoubtedly will, copy paste and time waste your way into some snoody "TYPICAL, NOW THEY DON'T WANNA TALK ABOUT IT!" mantra. Honestly? I no longer see a point in trying to convert anyone, i've learned my lesson there. I will simply sit back now and watch as you dig yourself deeper and deeper in the shitpit you've made. From start to finish, you have come out against peace. Why? Because you are uneducated about war and it's true horrors. Maybe if bombs start going off if your neighborhood, or you get to see the results of one of these "tactical strikes" in the form of twisted and mangled bodies you will understand. Maybe the true fear of knowing death is an ever-present constant, poised to grip you anytime, will allow you some clarity and insight into the minds of the people you have so dismissvely written off as "barbarians". Perhaps if a couple of your children were killed and chalked up to "collateral damages" you might view things differently.
Why would all these people, most of whom live in completely different corners of the globe and come from all different walks of life, all come out with a unified message of outrage in response to your screed? Because you go against the cause of human decency and equality. I don't care what you choose to site or how you choose to spin these words, because what you have said over the course of this discussion as a whole highlights your character much more vibrantly than any last-hour fabricated summerization would. Everyone on here can see your true color.
I wish you well in whatever course the short remainder of your live takes you. I hope that eventually you are able to overcome whatever unfortunate occurances brought you to this bitter point. Other then that though, I hope you gain some insight into the human experience outside of your own comfort zone. I don't think you are necessarily a bad person. In fact, if I met you in real life i'm sure we would find common ground over a joint or 3. But I can not, and will not, sit by and say nothing when someone like you calls for the blood of the young to be spilled for the causes of the old. I do not believe in Christianity, but I think one of the most redeeming messages it ever imparted was the "Treat others as you would wish to be treated.." mentality. If more people stuck to that, we might have a shot at making it to the 2100's.
...I say, for the MILLIONTH TIME, that ANY nation who conducts preemptive raids that result in the deaths of civilians is no better than a terrorist organization. You can't adjust and reapply rules to meet you ends Kynes, figure it out. The rules of engagement must be respected if you wish to retain credibility.
