Just a little poll, about compost teas. Do you use them as an organic grower?

Do you use compost teas in your grows? Do you find them useful? Any bad experiences?

  • Total voters
    55
m4s73r said:
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"The soil food web defines compost tea as: "essentially, is a brewing process that extracts microorganisms from compost followed by microbial growth and multiplication. "

I'm guessing that's at least what Elaine Ingham's "$oil food web" says. But that's not science. That's some guy's highschool essay. I'd have failed her/him. lol

Edit: For anyone not familair with the term "food web", it describes the flows of energy and nutrients among a population of diverse organisms, like between trophic levels. But these organisms don't go to the trouble of making compost teas. The soil food web has nothing to do with compost teas, except for the fact of the claim that supposedly compost teas provide the "correct" microorganisms to a system suspected of being deficient in them. That's the reason I would have failed this kid..
 
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Oh i just pulled the first one i saw. A simple google search using the words "Compost tea science" and the top articles state science doesnt back up the use of compost teas. And now that I am reading up on the subject more recently (havent really visited this in a number of years) scientist are saying that companies that promote compost teas need to also let end users know that there is a risk of harmful pathogens. Hmm I may need to do some more reading. It thats true and I can find any case studies proving that Compost tea has that risk I wont be able to tell people its ok to use. Right now I'm indifferent to it. Its whatever. But if its dangerous...
 
m4s73r said:
Oh i just pulled the first one i saw. A simple google search using the words "Compost tea science" and the top articles state science doesnt back up the use of compost teas. And now that I am reading up on the subject more recently (havent really visited this in a number of years) scientist are saying that companies that promote compost teas need to also let end users know that there is a risk of harmful pathogens. Hmm I may need to do some more reading. It thats true and I can find any case studies proving that Compost tea has that risk I wont be able to tell people its ok to use. Right now I'm indifferent to it. Its whatever. But if its dangerous...
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Yes, my concern began the same way.

And since I don't have high quality compost... I just started searching about how can I make my own compost at home, maybe that way I can have higher quality compost.
 
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You may be onto something with this. Even with any concern out there is almost too much for me to risk. I consult elderly people on how to grow indoors. Last thing i need is to get sued cause some grandma made a compost tea got ecoli and dies.... Especially if people try using compost other then vermi.... Man this may be a eye opener moment.
 
m4s73r said:
Oh i just pulled the first one i saw. A simple google search using the words "Compost tea science" and the top articles state science doesnt back up the use of compost teas. And now that I am reading up on the subject more recently (havent really visited this in a number of years) scientist are saying that companies that promote compost teas need to also let end users know that there is a risk of harmful pathogens. Hmm I may need to do some more reading. It thats true and I can find any case studies proving that Compost tea has that risk I wont be able to tell people its ok to use. Right now I'm indifferent to it. Its whatever. But if its dangerous...
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A lot of the stuff I have seen recently is really steering away from bacteria rich compost teas and moving to compost "extracts" and fungal rich compost. I am still digging into this though. I'm really intrigued by your no till 25 gallon soil lasting 5 years... that sounds amazing!
 
m4s73r said:
Oh i just pulled the first one i saw. A simple google search using the words "Compost tea science" and the top articles state science doesnt back up the use of compost teas. And now that I am reading up on the subject more recently (havent really visited this in a number of years) scientist are saying that companies that promote compost teas need to also let end users know that there is a risk of harmful pathogens. Hmm I may need to do some more reading. It thats true and I can find any case studies proving that Compost tea has that risk I wont be able to tell people its ok to use. Right now I'm indifferent to it. Its whatever. But if its dangerous...
Click to expand...

I think it would be an extremely rare thing to get things like E. coli or other nasties in brewed compost teas with sugar added. Most of these bacteria don't compete well with others when there is ample sugar or other more complex carbohydrates around but not as much nitrogen. And I suspect also that many are brewing alchohol without knowing it because yeast is also everywhere. In fact, I bet often by brewing "compost teas", yeast are the ones that find a home and actually kill off many of the bacteria in their teas. It just depends on what is on the starting material, in the air in the location, etc. That's why scientists can't study it. There is no consistency and no one can reproduce "average conditions" and "inputs".
 
meangreengrowinmachine said:
A lot of the stuff I have seen recently is really steering away from bacteria rich compost teas and moving to compost "extracts" and fungal rich compost. I am still digging into this though. I'm really intrigued by your no till 25 gallon soil lasting 5 years... that sounds amazing!
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Its still being used to this day. I just threw 8 pots of it into 4x4 bed with some fresh mulch and some leaf mould. Got 4 girls growing in it right now. I dont document well as I'm just not into it. But I do try and do updates to what i got going in my sig. If you would like a full blown read of pretty much what i do check out Northwoods grow. We grow pretty much the same. (freaked me out when i read his thread and was like YO that my shit)

Northwood said:
I think it would be an extremely rare thing to get things like E. coli or other nasties in brewed compost teas with sugar added. Most of these bacteria don't compete well with others when there is ample sugar or other more complex carbohydrates around but not as much nitrogen. And I suspect also that many are brewing alchohol without knowing it because yeast is also everywhere. In fact, I bet often by brewing "compost teas", yeast are the ones that find a home and actually kill off many of the bacteria in their teas. It just depends on what is on the starting material, in the air in the location, etc. That's why scientists can't study it. There is no consistency and no one can reproduce "average conditions" and "inputs".
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I feel this. And for me thats enough to just not F with it. And your right. Most people proly have NO idea what theyre doing with it. You also seeing a lot of teas with kelp and alfalfa added. Hell that used to be in my tea mixes years ago. So why recommend it? I mean I sit here and look at my grow and its awesome. I dont use compost teas. I look at your grow and the same thing. Why risk it? Mulch people.
 
meangreengrowinmachine said:
I'm really intrigued by your no till 25 gallon soil lasting 5 years... that sounds amazing!
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I'm amazed and impressed too. @m4s73r What is your starting base medium/soil? Did you notice it going down in volume over the years due to decay, and did you just top up with no issue? I'm over 2 and a half years now, and just near harvesting my 7th cycle in my current no-till setup. But the soil does come from previous no-tills I've experimented with over the past years. It's reduced in volume in the pot considerably - almost 4" from the very start. Part of it may be due to compaction as well of course. It still drains crazy-well though. I plant my seeds right in there. Lol
 
Oh for sure they went down. I even had a round where I learned about deep tap root plants to keep that compaction from happening. It also much needed plant matter to the mix. if you dont do this then in 5 years you got a pot of perlite and humus. Which isnt really a issue. Scoop it out and mix in some leaf mold and fill your pots back up and start over.
Worms yo. Like that is the biggest thing. and more importantly Both large worms. European Nightcrawlers, Canadian Nighcrawlers and Red Wigglers. These animals are the living occupants of your soil. Worms are like a giant nutrient source eating it way all over your soil. If you take a big ole handful of soil out of your pot it had better be teaming with life. Worms, bugs, ect. Like I say all the time. Feed your soil. Trust.

But for long term, my system has been living mulch, worms, worm bin. Cover crop once a year. I dont do compost teas. I do ad my ewc to my leaves when i mulch my harvested plants back into my pots. I feed kelp to the worm bin with simple organic kitchen scraps some dried crushed egg shell and some light coffee ground for some grit.

This next pot i plan to line the bottom 4 inches of my bed with aged wood in a Hugelkultuire syle indoor bed. Should be fun.
 
Oh soil mix was just base Coots mix from Build a soil. He had a deal for it shipped to me. enough to fill 8 25 gallon pots. I had about 3 inches on top left for growth/mulching.
Here's a pro tip. I had a pot that got moved around more then others. Front pot. Had to pick it up to get into the tent. So after a couple of grows i noticed it was lower then the rest of them and when i got to feeling it, it was hard as hard as a rock about halfway down. So as i was about to harvest i started in my no till cover crop. I seeded it thick. Once the clover came up i had a nice spongy sod on the top of the pot. I just rolled the sides down and peeled it off like Grass Sod. Set it aside dumped out the bottom of the pot. mixed in some perlite/pumice. dumped it back in and layed the clover sod back on top. the rest of cover crop grew in and I chopped and covered it. But growing that sod top saves your soil biology over tilling.
 
m4s73r said:
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So I read that whole (essay). When I was in college I learned to bullshit through papers and throw citations in knowing the professor's aid who will grade the paper most likely wont look up references. I looked at a couple citations and lets just say they were not accurate to what was proclaimed in the paper. The essay keeps stating compost teas somehow cure or suppress disease, they really don't. The basics behind a bacterial tea or fungal tea is for the Beneficial's to outperform the detrimental in the soil food web. Its a process to the microbial life of soil. Tea is not and has never been a (cure). Tea is simply supplemental. The so called compost tea task force never stated that teas are not backed by science, in fact their main contribution was on how to create a tea safely. The link provided in that essay for citation did not have that actual paper of the task force just a reference to it so I looked up that paper myself and read that too.
 
m4s73r said:
Oh i just pulled the first one i saw. A simple google search using the words "Compost tea science" and the top articles state science doesnt back up the use of compost teas. And now that I am reading up on the subject more recently (havent really visited this in a number of years) scientist are saying that companies that promote compost teas need to also let end users know that there is a risk of harmful pathogens. Hmm I may need to do some more reading. It thats true and I can find any case studies proving that Compost tea has that risk I wont be able to tell people its ok to use. Right now I'm indifferent to it. Its whatever. But if its dangerous...
Click to expand...

Most likely these companies use manure from animals like cows used in the meat or milking industries. If you see how these animals are maintained its no wonder their excrement has harmful shit in it.
 
They have their time and place. Everyone who starts organic starts heavy on them then learns they aren’t needed that often, esp when the soil is solid and well amended and high quality ewc. The tea is Almost too much. Prob good for the fox farm folx tho heheh x-x I kid kid...but do I?
 
m4s73r said:
Oh for sure they went down. I even had a round where I learned about deep tap root plants to keep that compaction from happening. It also much needed plant matter to the mix. if you dont do this then in 5 years you got a pot of perlite and humus. Which isnt really a issue. Scoop it out and mix in some leaf mold and fill your pots back up and start over.
Worms yo. Like that is the biggest thing. and more importantly Both large worms. European Nightcrawlers, Canadian Nighcrawlers and Red Wigglers. These animals are the living occupants of your soil. Worms are like a giant nutrient source eating it way all over your soil. If you take a big ole handful of soil out of your pot it had better be teaming with life. Worms, bugs, ect. Like I say all the time. Feed your soil. Trust.

But for long term, my system has been living mulch, worms, worm bin. Cover crop once a year. I dont do compost teas. I do ad my ewc to my leaves when i mulch my harvested plants back into my pots. I feed kelp to the worm bin with simple organic kitchen scraps some dried crushed egg shell and some light coffee ground for some grit.

This next pot i plan to line the bottom 4 inches of my bed with aged wood in a Hugelkultuire syle indoor bed. Should be fun.
Click to expand...
Funny thing about worms is most are good but not all. There are some worms attacking and diminishing whole echo systems right now. If its not indigenous to your location be responsible and dont dispose or let them go in a foreign environment.
 
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