Steph62515
New Member
if I'm using a 4x4x6h grow tent what's ur advice on how many led panels... Is one sufficient? Wattage needed to grow around 8 plants? Want a quality light but on a budget too... Thanks
Led grow lights newbie
- Thread starter Steph62515
- Start date
sunny747
Well-Known Member
Calling on the hundreds of threads and also personal experience, there is no such thing as a budget and quality LED setup. If you're trying to cut down on heat by using LED's then cheap panels will not help you much and you'll end up with fluffy nugs and a light that is already outdated. These panels don't really save you much money on electricity either.
MARS HYDRO 5w LED panels are the best of the worst if you still want to go that route. You'll probably need two 600w panels. That tech is so old by now though. Can it grow weed? Yes..Is it worth the money? No way. Also remember that almost all LED manufacturers lie about the coverage and results.
Stick to HID, or CMH lighting for now. You can pick up a decent HID setup for for under $150 that will blow away the $400-$600 that you will spend on LED panels.
COB LED technology is developing rapidly, but it's still pretty pricey. Even to build one yourself will cost some $$ and there is a lot to learn. There are some decent build videos on youtube.
Area 51 has some good COBs, but you won't like the price.
MARS HYDRO 5w LED panels are the best of the worst if you still want to go that route. You'll probably need two 600w panels. That tech is so old by now though. Can it grow weed? Yes..Is it worth the money? No way. Also remember that almost all LED manufacturers lie about the coverage and results.
Stick to HID, or CMH lighting for now. You can pick up a decent HID setup for for under $150 that will blow away the $400-$600 that you will spend on LED panels.
COB LED technology is developing rapidly, but it's still pretty pricey. Even to build one yourself will cost some $$ and there is a lot to learn. There are some decent build videos on youtube.
Area 51 has some good COBs, but you won't like the price.
TJ baba
Well-Known Member
Hello I am a beginner as well. My first plant is 1.5 months old and about 1.5 weeks into flower stage. My grow area that I tried all of these lights in were almost the same dimensions as yours (mine was a little smaller at almost 4'x2.5'x5'). I ordered and tried both of the following:
400w HPS/MH sent it back it was way too hot and ballast way too loud (noisy)
Mars hydro 600w LED sent it back it sent my temps to 97 degrees in the tent! And it was almost as loud as the HPS ballast in my opinion
Because of this I recommend 40w CFLs 110% for beginners growing in similar sized areas. you will need ventilation as well. Good luck
Hopefully someone will tell you about t5 as that's one I haven't tried.
400w HPS/MH sent it back it was way too hot and ballast way too loud (noisy)
Mars hydro 600w LED sent it back it sent my temps to 97 degrees in the tent! And it was almost as loud as the HPS ballast in my opinion
Because of this I recommend 40w CFLs 110% for beginners growing in similar sized areas. you will need ventilation as well. Good luck
Hopefully someone will tell you about t5 as that's one I haven't tried.
Steph62515
New Member
Is one 600w hid enough for a 4x4?
verticalgrow
Well-Known Member
verticalgrow
Well-Known Member
Tastyled and Johnson have top quality LED lights and heres 2 links:
http://www.tastyled.com/product-p/v4-200.htm
http://johnsongrowlights.com/index.php?controller=new-products
Steph62515
New Member
Is brand of ballast a major thing?
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
T5's and CFL work great for clones and that's it. LED lights are garbage no matter how much money you spend they are not worth it. A 600 watt hps or 1000 watt is what you need to use. Anything else you might well just buy your medicine from someone. Set up the ventilation in your tent and your Temps won't get so high.
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
Sometimes. Regardless of brand the analog ballasts seem to last the longest.
sunny747
Well-Known Member
You need to judge for yourself about quality and safety, but ipower seems to be very well priced. May be worth it to spend a little more though.. In my opinion they're all basically the same.
600w will do you just fine. Consider an air cooled hood or cooltube to control temps. Remember that you will need around 180 cfm fan to pump out the hot air. Pump it into another room, out a window or into an attic or something. You can even pump it into a bathroom fan vent.
Look on Craigslist.for a switchable, dimmable electronic ballast that takes both Metal halide and HPS. In legal states they are a dime a dozen for around $100 with hood. Replace the bulb though. Bulbs are good for two grows max and you won't be able to judge how many hours are on the bulb that comes with it if it is used.
mainegirl
Member
I am surprised at the technology nowadays, the led is actually proven to grow better bud and more of it. Check out growmau5 on YouTube he proved it in his video. Another vid to check out is john berfelo he proved that led grows better quality also..
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
I've seen the growmau5 videos. An I can't argue, an experienced, knowledgeable grower. With a perfect room environment, and perfect led lighting equipment that he took the time to painstakingly make will grow great bud.
But for average beginner or hobby gardener isn't going to have the time or knowledge to build a quality led set up. They will buy one. Now there are high quality set ups for sale now. If you have $1500 for just a light.
A first time grower, still trying to learn techniques and the importance of environment should not waste $1500 on one 600w light.
Especially when you can get two complete 600 or 1000 watt hid setups for 300. An air conditioner for 300. A dehumidifier for 200. And still have money left to buy your fans, duct work, and pots.
I don't think led lights are garbage because they're ineffective. I think they're garbage because no one makes an affordable high quality one and most people will waste their money on the cheap useless ones. While the rest squander their money on high quality ones but then don't have any money to spend on an air conditioner or dehumidifier when those things would have made more of a difference in yield over switching out an hps set up for an led.
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
Something to keep in mind - You don't just get the awesome power and efficiency saving benefits for free. You have to pay in somewhere. It's either front end, or back end, choose which one you want to pay. A quality LED lamp will save you that extra money over the course of a year in energy (6-700W vs. 1K) on the draw + climate control. It get's especially effective in bigger rooms. If you really understood LED technology, there is no way in the world you could say that they were garbage. Either you don't understand the benefit of being almost twice as efficient with the newest tech, don't see the value in zero bulb replacement, absolutely minimal lumen depreciation, a fraction of the heat, a better spectrum (2000K contains a lot of wasted energy in yellow/Orange) and the benefits of having multi-point lighting (better spread, comparable PPFD numbers to a 1K's hotspot over the entire canopy, light entering at multiple angles as opposed to fixed overhead). What are you getting caught up on? The benefits are tangible, just because you ignore them, doesn't mean they're not there.
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand me my friend. I'm not caught up on anything. I've used and invested in led lights.
They are slightly more cost effective in their operation.
And in a side by side comparison 600 w of led light can out perform a 600 w hid.
But here's the kicker...you know what out performs 600 w of led lights? 3000 watts of hps lights that you can purchase plus all the stuff to control your environment for cheaper than one single 600 w led light.
I'm not saying they don't work, I'm not saying they aren't more efficient.
I'm saying for the effort, time, and money of setting up an industrial size led grow, you can set up three identical hps grows.
If money is just piss to you, then by all means led it up. They do good work in good hands. Beginners should stick with the full proof industry standard of hid lighting.
They are slightly more cost effective in their operation.
And in a side by side comparison 600 w of led light can out perform a 600 w hid.
But here's the kicker...you know what out performs 600 w of led lights? 3000 watts of hps lights that you can purchase plus all the stuff to control your environment for cheaper than one single 600 w led light.
I'm not saying they don't work, I'm not saying they aren't more efficient.
I'm saying for the effort, time, and money of setting up an industrial size led grow, you can set up three identical hps grows.
If money is just piss to you, then by all means led it up. They do good work in good hands. Beginners should stick with the full proof industry standard of hid lighting.
HockeyBeard
Well-Known Member
And I don't necessarily disagree with that sentiment either... But 3K of HPS is going to require almost 20K BTU + Dehuie and inlines to keep the room and hoods. It's choosing where you're going to spend your money, parts or utilities. You're going to reduce your energy consumption significantly, possibly over 30% energy savings. That adds up. Also, no bulb replacement. Say you replace twice a year @ $50 a bulb. That's 600 over two years. Nothing to scoff at either.
From that perspective, I guess I can agree then. Because it's not a terrible idea to get a full, rounded idea of what your costs are, and then upgrade from there once you have income coming in. But then you've got a room that's overkill for your needs, if you do. It's all about where your priorities and budget stand. Are you trying to minimize heat signature, want a better tuned spectrum, etc etc, or do you just want to get growing ASAP and willing to just go the cookie cutter route. Pros and cons to each, but I'm in the LED Camp. I'm not going to invest in dying technology. In two more years, the price of last years tech should be dropping to a real nice price point, and if we can still get high BIN parts in it, you can do a lot more for less.
From that perspective, I guess I can agree then. Because it's not a terrible idea to get a full, rounded idea of what your costs are, and then upgrade from there once you have income coming in. But then you've got a room that's overkill for your needs, if you do. It's all about where your priorities and budget stand. Are you trying to minimize heat signature, want a better tuned spectrum, etc etc, or do you just want to get growing ASAP and willing to just go the cookie cutter route. Pros and cons to each, but I'm in the LED Camp. I'm not going to invest in dying technology. In two more years, the price of last years tech should be dropping to a real nice price point, and if we can still get high BIN parts in it, you can do a lot more for less.
Rasta Roy
Well-Known Member
And all those reasons are why I invested in led equipment.
Let me share what I learned.
The amount of energy it takes to grow X amount of pounds doesn't change, regardless of your light source.
A room outfitted with led lights still requires about the same amount of energy for ventilation, ac, fans, and dehumidifiers. And yes your heat will be more.evenly spread amongst your plant canopy. But for you to yield X amount of pounds, the appropriate amount of led lighting will still produce a heat signature.
A word on the equipment. Yes you don't need to replace bulbs. You will have to replace buck boosters, ballast (the built-in ballast I might add), etc. And unless you've got a mind for electronics this usually means replacing the whole unit. Do you have any led equipment that's lasted more than two years? I don't. I do need to replace my hps bulbs but I've only had one hps ballast go bad in over five years.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's led dreams. I'm just saying in my experience, if your goal is to save money and be more cost effective then led is not the way to go. In theory I know it sounds awesome. But my led power bill vs my hid powerbill are very similar. My led equipment was exponentially more expensive, and more likely to break than hid equipment. And the side by side yield is only slightly better for leds. And the potency is the same when lab tested.
If you're smart enough to build a high quality led light for cheap, put that on the market and we will all thank you for it. In the meantime, if you're trying to save money. The better route would be looking into what you can do to avoid the grow store by buying your peat moss, perlite, compost, and garden amendments in bulk from your towns local landscape and garden supplier.
Let me share what I learned.
The amount of energy it takes to grow X amount of pounds doesn't change, regardless of your light source.
A room outfitted with led lights still requires about the same amount of energy for ventilation, ac, fans, and dehumidifiers. And yes your heat will be more.evenly spread amongst your plant canopy. But for you to yield X amount of pounds, the appropriate amount of led lighting will still produce a heat signature.
A word on the equipment. Yes you don't need to replace bulbs. You will have to replace buck boosters, ballast (the built-in ballast I might add), etc. And unless you've got a mind for electronics this usually means replacing the whole unit. Do you have any led equipment that's lasted more than two years? I don't. I do need to replace my hps bulbs but I've only had one hps ballast go bad in over five years.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's led dreams. I'm just saying in my experience, if your goal is to save money and be more cost effective then led is not the way to go. In theory I know it sounds awesome. But my led power bill vs my hid powerbill are very similar. My led equipment was exponentially more expensive, and more likely to break than hid equipment. And the side by side yield is only slightly better for leds. And the potency is the same when lab tested.
If you're smart enough to build a high quality led light for cheap, put that on the market and we will all thank you for it. In the meantime, if you're trying to save money. The better route would be looking into what you can do to avoid the grow store by buying your peat moss, perlite, compost, and garden amendments in bulk from your towns local landscape and garden supplier.
