tomcatjones
Active Member
http://alternativesolutionsplus.com/?page_id=14here is a calendar list of more clinics going on. there are many docs out there, i hope you can find one to suit your needs.
Michigan... how can i find a doctor who will give me a card
- Thread starter trueweedsmoker
- Start date
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Not for initial certs, only renewals of mine. Got to have a dr/pt relationship. I've seen some posters here recommending other clinics, including one that didn't even travel with a doc and does certs through the mail (try going to court with one of those). Just make sure you know what is required for a bona fide relationship, and make sure that where ever you go you actually meet with a doctor, who requires records, and does follow ups. Check their license as well (mine is right on the website) to make sure they haven't been in trouble with the board.
Dr. Bob
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Well let's see, Drs. Harwell in Cady and Graves in Mt. Morris both are under investigation from what' I've seen, Sunlight in Saginaw, the 420 club in the UP, have you paid much attention to the news lately? I've done 3 section 8 defenses in the last 6 weeks myself and have another one on Dec. 7th. I do agree with your recommendation of Dr. Dave Crocker, he is an excellent certification physician in Kalamazoo.
Dr. Bob
bloodytrichomes
New Member
i wasnt talking drs he said the dispencerys in muskegon are being investigated.. and dr crocker has clinics in muskegon as well as other places also
trueweedsmoker
Well-Known Member
I will definetly let everyone knows how it goes....but sorry to offend anyone about the investigation thing, I got my source from the newspapers and mlive.com, and I know how that can be.
trueweedsmoker
Well-Known Member
Dr. bob im going to call you...I have actually crossed your website before I even started posting. I dont trust most of these 1-800 numbers online, but you actually caught my eye. you travel from kalamazoo and down here through Muskegon right.
bloodytrichomes
New Member
no offence taken can you provide links to said ordeal i read the chronicle and mlive and have not seen anything about muskegon dispencerys.just interested as im in the muskegon area
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Here is one....
http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/index.ssf/2011/06/text_of_muskegon_townships_law.html
I believe they are associated with a doctor that is under investigation as well. Note the text of the suit. I do not know how this turned out, but it is clear there is bad blood between the authorities and this organization over the dispensing issue. The issue is also before the courts on the state level in Michigan v McQueen/Taylor. Oral arguments in that case can be found on my website.
Crocker has been very successful in court, I can recommend him. Another one was mentioned, but I only recommend physician run medical practices, I do not recommend marketing companies that may not even have a physician on site to meet the patient.
There are two basic philosophies when it comes to certification. One says a valid signature is the only needed endpoint. The other insists on an evaluation based certification with medical records, follow up, and standards of care like any other bona fide dr/pt relationship in medicine. More so because it is a schedule 1 narcotic. The Act specifies that the evaluation of the patient by the physician is required, the medical board has very specific guidelines that are binding on physician, and those that don't meet the standards are being charged by the AG.
Obviously I support the evaluation based model, and based on my court experience that is what the courts are requiring. It is my understanding that patients that find themselves before the court have to, as part of their section 8 defense, prove their certification was based on an evaluation in the course of a bona fide relationship, with records, an evaluation, and a follow up with the doctor. Mine have gone well for my patients to the point I am being hired as an expert for the patients of other doctors. Dave Crocker has held up well too. Other doctors have not, apparently most recently in Livingston Co.
Choice is yours my friend. If you have a DOCUMENTED qualifying condition, I would recommend you seek the services of a reputable, physician run certification clinic (Dave's and mine fall in to that category). If you don't have the documentation and want to take your chances that you wont end up having to justify it in court, there are alternative solutions you can seek. Some only require you sign a form saying you are sick, give them some money, and you are the proud owner of a card. But have a close look at them, they may be the ones sitting at your defense table, holding the keys to your cell.
Dr. Bob
bloodytrichomes
New Member
that was like 2 years ago they moved and are still going strong
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Take it as you wish. The SC will rule and the issue will be settled. In the meantime there will be those that will take the risk. But don't fool yourself into thinking they aren't being watched. There was another one in Muskegon last summer as I recall, and the 420 club in the UP was around a month ago.
Point is, you can call BS about investigations, but a short check of MLive shows they are popping up all over the place nearly every week. Latest one is Blue Water Compassion in Port Huron. When was that? 2 weeks ago? And how long were they watched? And that was a GOOD CLUB. Run by solid citizens following what they believed the MMMA allowed them to do.
Dr. Bob
Point is, you can call BS about investigations, but a short check of MLive shows they are popping up all over the place nearly every week. Latest one is Blue Water Compassion in Port Huron. When was that? 2 weeks ago? And how long were they watched? And that was a GOOD CLUB. Run by solid citizens following what they believed the MMMA allowed them to do.
Dr. Bob
bloodytrichomes
New Member
arnt you doing certs with the one you say was last summer .didnt you work for greater mich compassion club? arnt you working for ..... and your hotel clinic i wont mention who runs that one... if these places are high risk why are you involved with them
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
I'm responding out of courtesy because you asked a legitimate question. Now you are starting to question me and my practices again. What I am doing is not the issue, that dispensaries are on shaky ground was and you asked for examples, which were provided Bloody.
My practice is well respected and I am an authority on the subject. I don't need to justify what I do, I have in court several times and been found to be correct. I am expanding in Muskegon to give a place for folks to get this level of protection. I don't work with that group and haven't for years, and where I do certs, be it one of my 7 fixed offices or the 15-20 travel clinics I do each month is not the point, how they are done is. And they are done properly and have withstood challenges.
If you have questions about certifications or the legal climate in Michigan, feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to answer. But leave the personal issues at the door.
Dr. Bob
My practice is well respected and I am an authority on the subject. I don't need to justify what I do, I have in court several times and been found to be correct. I am expanding in Muskegon to give a place for folks to get this level of protection. I don't work with that group and haven't for years, and where I do certs, be it one of my 7 fixed offices or the 15-20 travel clinics I do each month is not the point, how they are done is. And they are done properly and have withstood challenges.
If you have questions about certifications or the legal climate in Michigan, feel free to ask away and I'll do my best to answer. But leave the personal issues at the door.
Dr. Bob
Digger Dave
Member
Dr. Crocker in the Zoo.
ironcross360
Well-Known Member
trueweedsmoker
Well-Known Member
Hey guys in muskegon and surrounding areas....I here that dr. bob is the real thing. He's on mlive and the newspapers for the things he's trying to do. Most of the people here that receive medical marihuana has there green card because of dr. bob. Thats enough for me. I just got ahold of my friend and he said that was who he seen also.
trueweedsmoker
Well-Known Member
Hey guys in muskegon and surrounding areas....I here that dr. bob is the real thing. He's on mlive and the newspapers for the things he's trying to do. Most of the people here that receive medical marihuana has there green card because of dr. bob. Thats enough for me. I just got ahold of my friend and he said that was who he seen also. The dispensaries around here reccommend him also, he's thought of very highly.
Dr. Bob
Well-Known Member
Good question...
In one case it was a section 8 defense. 3 patient caregiver with 23 plants, but growing outside in a dog pen with no top, so couldn't use the section 4. Generally if there is anything outside the clear scope of the act, 12 plants per patient, 5 patients per caregiver associated via the registry, they are going to bring in the doc. The others were probation hearings to continue to use mmj during probation. Good news on that front is the courts are starting to give the patient a chance to tell their story... they don't have to. In fact, the last one I came in at the request of the prosecutor, not the defense, to essentially give the court a reason to let him do it. Very friendly case to the patient.
I do have one coming up on the 7th concerning amounts considered reasonable. Without going into details, he had A LOT, and I am going to have to do a 5 way section 8 defense to justify it. I am bringing an oil expert with me to help. That one wasn't my patient so he is getting charged, the others were done free as part of my certification fee when they got the card.
Note, it is a common thread that most people that end up in court were relying on their own interpretation of the Act rather than paying attention to how the courts interpreted it. Most had extra plants or usable, or otherwise made a simple mistake. Got to be careful and always try and figure out how what you are trying to do will be attacked and plan accordingly.
Dr. Bob
