Molasses doesnt do anything

Jogro said:

That's going to happen anyway.
Besides, what's the internet for if not for pointless rude arguments between total strangers?

Here are my questions for you, and they're serious questions.

How do you use molasses (ie what kind of grow, how much do you use, what type/brand, and when) and what do you believe it does for you?

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I use a tablespoon per gallon - it's soil (FoxFarm Ocean Forest) I use Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Unsulphured Molasses and every other watering. I use it throughout my veg and flower stage. My plants are healthier than when I didn't use it and my buds are usually huge and tight. I don't believe anything. I know what it does for my plants. I spent a year not using it and the next four using it. I usually don't have any problems with nutrient lock out or ph issues.

well i got some molasses and am going to do my own side by side comparison. The same strain, clones from the same mom, side by side. I'll add molasses to one and no molasses to the other and decide for myself. I don't care what any of you say, think, do, etc... I wish nothing but the best for you guys but I don't trust a word that any of you say.

From Dr Fever
"Yea ok there on organic soils its already broken down the plant produces sugar you ever here of sugar leafs ????"

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You must be pretty naive in the game. Sugar leafs are simply called "sugar leafs" b/c they are covered in Trich's and literally look like sugar on the leaf . To my knowledge "Sugar Leafs" are only used in marijuana talk and are referred to as trich covered leafs. Yes I do know that the leaf is where most of the sugar is made in photosynthesis, but how you refer to "sugar leafs" (as if all plants have them) is simply false. If that was the case then all plants would have these so called "Sugar leafs" with sugar looking leaves all over them., b/c in marijuana when people talk about "sugar leafs", they mean the leaf's covered in trich's (the one's you save for making hash). If that wasn't the case, then we would also be saving fan leaves. So don't try to refer to something out of context. Catch my drift?

And Drfever I will give you that your plants do look very nice. If you yield what you say then again nice work. I agree with you that you can still grow some top quality marijuana without using sugars.

I'm not saying that this is for everyone, I am simply saying that applying molasses/sugars at the end of flower in a organic setting can definitely be beneficial to your soil/micros/plants.

naive in the game I'm prob one of the few people you will ever talk to that prob has over 700 plants in all stages of the game as well as 1400 clones at any given time ??? i prob clone my guess is in the field of 15,000 clones a year i go through approx 140 yards of soil on my indoor grows per year and i am naive ok i own a botanic garden 10 full size greenhouses
i believe in giving plants carbo boosts in the flowering cycle

Plants are self-sufficient organisms that make their own food. Plants need sunlight and water to convert carbon dioxide and water into sugars, with free oxygen as a waste product. The chemical reaction occurs in the presence of green chlorophyll, which acts as an intermediary to enable the rearrangement of atoms. This "photosynthesis" occurs in the chloroplasts, tiny subcellular structures in the leaves and stems of plants that hold the chlorophyll.

• What Happens In Plants
  
  • According to the Oregon State University Extension Service website, the chemical reaction of photosynthesis uses the energy of the photons of sunlight striking the chlorophyll to rearrange six carbon dioxide molecules and six water molecules into one molecule of sugar made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms, and six free oxygen molecules that are excreted through the pores of the leaves as a waste product.
    
    
  Three Needs in Process
  
  • The process of photosynthesis depends on adequate supplies of light, carbon dioxide and water. Reduce any one of these and photosynthesis slows or stops, says Oregon State Extension Service. In a tightly sealed greenhouse, carbon dioxide levels may drop so low as to impair plant growth, so growers sometimes add carbon dioxide to the greenhouse atmosphere.
    
    
  Chloroplasts in Middle
  
  • Photosynthesis occurs in the mesophyll layer of leaves, between the upper and lower outer surfaces. This middle layer of leaves is where the chlorophyll-containing chloroplasts are located, Oregon State's Extension website notes. Chloroplasts are so tiny that a square millimeter contains 400,000 of them.
    
    
  Plant Respiration
  
  • In respiration, plants combine sugars with oxygen to produce the energy they need to grow and power their life processes, leaving carbon dioxide and water. Plants take in oxygen for respiration through their roots and through the pores of their leaves, says Oregon State's Extension Service. Respiration is the opposite of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis builds complex molecules out of simple ones, storing energy. Respiration breaks complex molecules back down into simple ones, releasing energy.
    
    
  Transpiration Moves Water
  
  • Plants use a process called transpiration to circulate water and nutrients throughout their systems. Water evaporating through the pores of the plant's leaves pulls water and nutrients up from the plant's roots, according to the Oregon State Extension Service website. The water serves as both solvent and means of transport for nutrients and sugars. Transpiration uses about 90 percent of the water that enters the plant. The other 10 percent is used for photosynthesis and cell growth.
    
    

On Dr. Ingham, I stand corrected. Her credentials in soil microbiology are excellent.

But again, that still doesn't mean that everything she says is true, even within her own field.

Linked directly from her article is another one stating explicitly that there is no compelling scientific evidence that "compost tea" has ANY effect, and explaining why it likely doesn't. If she wrote a whole article touting use of compost tea without good evidence that it works, isn't it reasonable to wonder what else she might be claiming without evidence, particularly to a non-credulous audience?

Once again, an appeal to authority is one thing, and an actual scientific argument is something else.

Can you cite any studies (By Dr. Ingham or anyone else) showing a special benefit from molasses on plant growth (ANY plant)? Have you any other data to suggest this is true?

T Ray said:

Not in organic supersoil. You have to have active micro-life to breakdown the compounds to an available form to feed the plants b/c you only use water. That is why the sugars are so important at the end. It gives the micro's that quick boost needed to finish the plants.

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Well, if you're adding molasses, you aren't really using "only water", are you?

Regardless, this is another assertion without evidence.

Would you agree that emprically, most organically grown MJ seems to "finish" just fine without added molasses? I mean the plant has been grown all over the globe organically for thousands of years. . .without molasses.

Exactly which nutrient deficiencies do you think are fixed by the molasses?

nice jorgo some people just don't get it
you get people that say piss on your plants and they will yield more ) and theres threads on this

Exactly which nutrient deficiencies do you think are fixed by the molasses? that epsom salt couldn't fix faster )

DrFever said:

naive in the game I'm prob one of the few people you will ever talk to that prob has over 700 plants in all stages of the game as well as 1400 clones at any given time ??? i prob clone my guess is in the field of 15,000 clones a year i go through approx 140 yards of soil on my indoor grows per year and i am naive ok i own a botanic garden 10 full size greenhouses
i believe in giving plants carbo boosts in the flowering cycle

Plants are self-sufficient organisms that make their own food. Plants need sunlight and water to convert carbon dioxide and water into sugars, with free oxygen as a waste product. The chemical reaction occurs in the presence of green chlorophyll, which acts as an intermediary to enable the rearrangement of atoms. This "photosynthesis" occurs in the chloroplasts, tiny subcellular structures in the leaves and stems of plants that hold the chlorophyll.

• What Happens In Plants
  • According to the Oregon State University Extension Service website, the chemical reaction of photosynthesis uses the energy of the photons of sunlight striking the chlorophyll to rearrange six carbon dioxide molecules and six water molecules into one molecule of sugar made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms, and six free oxygen molecules that are excreted through the pores of the leaves as a waste product.
  Three Needs in Process
  
  
  • The process of photosynthesis depends on adequate supplies of light, carbon dioxide and water. Reduce any one of these and photosynthesis slows or stops, says Oregon State Extension Service. In a tightly sealed greenhouse, carbon dioxide levels may drop so low as to impair plant growth, so growers sometimes add carbon dioxide to the greenhouse atmosphere.
  Chloroplasts in Middle
  
  
  • Photosynthesis occurs in the mesophyll layer of leaves, between the upper and lower outer surfaces. This middle layer of leaves is where the chlorophyll-containing chloroplasts are located, Oregon State's Extension website notes. Chloroplasts are so tiny that a square millimeter contains 400,000 of them.
  Plant Respiration
  
  
  • In respiration, plants combine sugars with oxygen to produce the energy they need to grow and power their life processes, leaving carbon dioxide and water. Plants take in oxygen for respiration through their roots and through the pores of their leaves, says Oregon State's Extension Service. Respiration is the opposite of photosynthesis. Photosynthesis builds complex molecules out of simple ones, storing energy. Respiration breaks complex molecules back down into simple ones, releasing energy.
  Transpiration Moves Water
  
  
  • Plants use a process called transpiration to circulate water and nutrients throughout their systems. Water evaporating through the pores of the plant's leaves pulls water and nutrients up from the plant's roots, according to the Oregon State Extension Service website. The water serves as both solvent and means of transport for nutrients and sugars. Transpiration uses about 90 percent of the water that enters the plant. The other 10 percent is used for photosynthesis and cell growth.

Click to expand...

Again I never said that leaves do not make sugar. I understand how that process works and said that yes they do. Right here

Yes I do know that the leaf is where most of the sugar is made in photosynthesis, but how you refer to "sugar leafs" (as if all plants have them) is simply false

Click to expand...

You said "you ever hear of sugar leafs?".

Yes, I have and when referring to marijuana "sugar leaves" people are talking about the leaves that look like "sugar" hence the name. That's why when making hash they distinguish between which leaves to use. Sugar leaves = high quality hash ....all leaves = lower quality hash. Go ahead and google sugar leaves and see what comes up....seems like it's everyone referring to marijuana and the trich covered leaves. That's weird. The way you are trying to "spin" this I feel like I'm dealing with Fox news. Spin it however you'd like.

Jogro

Did I ever say that I was fixing deficiencies? I must of forgot that part. There aren't any deficiencies. It's simply to supply the micro's with a quick boost so that they can break down the food so that the plant may uptake it and use what it needs.

Heres Dr Ingram take:

12-Step Approach to Understanding the Soil Foodweb

....Step Two Feed the bacteria, if bacterial activity is too low. Just like any other creature, bacteria require food. Plant roots often supply the simple carbon substrates that bacteria require, such as simple sugars, proteins, and carbohydrates. Bacteria need N, P, K, Ca, and all the other nutrients as well, and obtain those from organic matter and from inorganic sources as well. Various species of bacteria can solubilize mineral elements from the mineral components of soil, but no one species can effectively solubilize ALL minerals. Diversity of species to obtain all the needed nutrients is required.
Often soil tests will indicate that some nutrient is in low supply, but merely by adding the appropriate bacterial or fungal species, these organisms will convert plant unavailable nutrients into plant available forms. Diversity is the key, however, as well as feeding that diverse set of species so they will perform their functions.
If activity is low, then bacterial foods need to be added to increase growth rates and improve numbers. A diversity of foods needs to be added, and thus molasses is a much better choice than white sugar. Fish hydrolysate also adds fungal foods, and N and other micronutrients. Fruit juices can be used as well, but diversity is key.

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From http://www.soilfoodweb.com/sfi_approach1.html

In my set up I don't feed the plants (meaning that I don't apply ferts or bottled nutes during the grow). Towards the end of flower the micro's need a boost, so I use molasses to feed the micro's (not the plant) so that they can maintain available nutrients for the plant.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] theres alot better stuff then molases [/FONT][/FONT]
Enzyme a 100% natural enzymatic tonic that reinforces defense systems while treating and cleansing grow media Zenzyme sparks chemical reactions that accerate the breakdown and mineralization of nutrients increasing their uptake and assimulation theres alot better products out there then molases )) get with the program
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

I'll stick with the suggestions of one of the most respected/world renowned Soil Biologist Dr. Elaine Ingram on this one bud. Thanks though. Also I don't use straight molasses (if you would of actually took the time to read the thread you would know this), I use sucanat (which is less refined) and bud candy . Seems to be working just fine. As she said "diversity is key."

Carne Seca said:

I use a tablespoon per gallon - it's soil (FoxFarm Ocean Forest) I use Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Unsulphured Molasses and every other watering. I use it throughout my veg and flower stage. My plants are healthier than when I didn't use it and my buds are usually huge and tight. I don't believe anything. I know what it does for my plants. I spent a year not using it and the next four using it. I usually don't have any problems with nutrient lock out or ph issues.

Click to expand...

isn't this really all that matters? It works for you and in your personal experience makes things better.
this is how I recommend products at my store. I try them, If I see results, I report that to my customers.

Yep sucanate and simple carbs here too I feed great white Bennie bacteria it eats up the SIMPLE sugars insucanate it has been show that molasses makes a bacterially Dom. Tea and simple sugars with humics make fungal teas. http://www.calciumproducts.com/articles/Dr._Pettit_Humate.pdf <--- this is a link to a Texas a&m professors study on humics he states on page two that sugars help alot in the processing Of aminos into humic substances thus aiding the breakdown of soils and locked nutes

The molasses is broken down by microbes into useful byproducts for plants. Blackstrap molasses has other nutes that do not come in normal fertilizers. I use it along with SuperThrive as an additional dose of nutes. I have found that it helps control that distinct smell, it doesn't eliminate it though. It works for me, I'm not changing.

Brer Rabbit Blackstrap is the best, just read the bottle. At least, the best I've found. I, actually, used it on my potted plants outside I think they look great.

Carne Seca said:

I use a tablespoon per gallon - it's soil (FoxFarm Ocean Forest) I use Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Unsulphured Molasses and every other watering. I use it throughout my veg and flower stage. My plants are healthier than when I didn't use it and my buds are usually huge and tight. I don't believe anything. I know what it does for my plants. I spent a year not using it and the next four using it. I usually don't have any problems with nutrient lock out or ph issues.

Click to expand...

T Ray said:

Jogro

Did I ever say that I was fixing deficiencies? I must of forgot that part. There aren't any deficiencies. It's simply to supply the micro's with a quick boost so that they can break down the food so that the plant may uptake it and use what it needs.

Click to expand...

You implied that something was missing by saying explicitly that you needed molasses to "finish" your plants.

Put differently, if your soil weren't deficient in some way, (ie your plants already had everything they needed for optimal growth), then why would you need to add supplements of any kind?

What do you think will happen if you don't add molasses?

Since you're relying on Dr. Ingham as your reference, why don't we examine what she's actually saying? Your quote again:

Often soil tests will indicate that some nutrient is in low supply, [ie that's a "deficiency", right?] but merely by adding the appropriate bacterial or fungal species, these organisms will convert plant unavailable nutrients into plant available forms. Diversity is the key, however, as well as feeding that diverse set of species so they will perform their functions. If [bacterial] activity is low, then bacterial foods need to be added to increase growth rates and improve numbers.

Click to expand...

So, in the excerpt you yourself posted, Dr. Ingram is saying that adjuncts like molasses are only necessary if:

a. There is a specific nutrient deficiency **AND**
b. This particular deficiency is caused by reduced bacterial (or other microbiologic) activity.

If both these things are true, then at that point, adding something like molasses might help fix your deficiency by boosting the number of bacteria.

Conversely, if you don't have a nutrient deficiency, or alternatively (and probably more likely) you do have one, but its not amenable to being fixed with increased bacterial activity, then adding molasses shouldn't do anything for you.

Hence my question above about what you think is missing from your soil that requires you to add molasses to it.

Note also, that Dr. Ingram says explicitly that if you did have this sort of problem, ideally you'd want to add a variety of different bacterial supplements, not just molasses. Molasses all by itself could be helpful, but only if it boosts the appropriate bacteria, and with a mix of organisms present, just molasses is probably not optimal.

Carne Seca said:

I use a tablespoon per gallon - it's soil (FoxFarm Ocean Forest) I use Brer Rabbit Blackstrap Unsulphured Molasses and every other watering. I use it throughout my veg and flower stage. My plants are healthier than when I didn't use it and my buds are usually huge and tight. I don't believe anything. I know what it does for my plants. I spent a year not using it and the next four using it. I usually don't have any problems with nutrient lock out or ph issues.

Click to expand...

Thanks for answering.

You're saying that you've been more successful in your last four years growing than in your first year. I don't doubt it, but don't you think that's to be expected with simple experience?

What you're describing (constant addition of molasses) is akin to using it as a regular fertilizer, rather than a late-addition "boost". Its a bit of a different use.

The real question is, have you ever run side by side plants treated otherwise the same with and without molasses? That's the only real way to know what effect the molasses has.