Most breeders are a rip off.

That sounds cool; I've heard a lot about 'em lately I may have to give them a go one of these days but I'm stocked up on geneticxs for now.

Got my first KC Brains mango outside this year, had no problems with germination, but was told that they were fast flowering and early finishing. It's been in flower for about ten days and has no hope of finishing, its the most sativa dominant plant ive ever grown, so no it doesn't do what it says on the tin and i wont be wasting my time with his gear again!

Thanks for taking the time to write this up and share. You're not alone in your frustration with lack of protocol here.

trufflechef said:

Got my first KC Brains mango outside this year, had no problems with germination, but was told that they were fast flowering and early finishing. It's been in flower for about ten days and has no hope of finishing, its the most sativa dominant plant ive ever grown, so no it doesn't do what it says on the tin and i wont be wasting my time with his gear again!

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10 days or 10 weeks? You know, itt's pretty much common knowledge that your plants will go about 1-2 weeks longer than what is described in the breeder's description. At most your Mango should go 12 weeks.


Either you don't buy many seeds or you are completely unaware that breeder flower times are ALWAYS shorter than YOUR flower time. Don't write off a breeder just because your plants went longer than expected. That's ridiculous.

mcrandle said:

10 days or 10 weeks? You know, itt's pretty much common knowledge that your plants will go about 1-2 weeks longer than what is described in the breeder's description. At most your Mango should go 12 weeks.


Either you don't buy many seeds or you are completely unaware that breeder flower times are ALWAYS shorter than YOUR flower time. Don't write off a breeder just because your plants went longer than expected. That's ridiculous.

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Thank you for your arrogant reply, Im aware that most plants go over stated flowering periods and that said flowering periods are based on a commercial guide for finishing. This mango plant has only just started flowering at most it's been in flower for 2 weeks. it's along side 2 other varietie's that are finishing in the next week possibly fortnight, my point is that it was supposed to be an early finishing plant indicating that it would have started flowering in August not the last week of september. its also so sativa dominant that it will probably require at least 14 weeks to finish which is no use to me. Since germinating said seeds ive heard alot of people stating that kc brains genetics are unstable and this proves it for me. So to sum up, his product is not what was stated so i wont be using him again, once bitten twice shy!

Sucks that you didn't get what you were looking for trufflechef...

Hazey I have flavours I can't stand in weed, mainly pine... anything that smells like pine or tastes like pine disgusts me... and I don't think it was one guy with an axe to grind, it would have to have been a serious psycho to keep on with so many different accounts all around the internet... It's just I've never had any problems with germinating his seeds, the two males I got left with by giving away my plants well before flowering looked nearly identical with maybe 2 inches difference in height and started flowering within a few days of each other... The most I can say about his gear so far is that the KC-45 males I had flowered when they were expected to and looked almost like twins... This season I will be able to say a lot more about the 45's and his Leda Uno I hope...

A much more reasonable response thanks shannon, i will agree that the plants from the pack of mango were very similar, i did have a high percentage of males that all showed the same internodal spacings and sativa leaves along with similar height. The main problem i have with the seeds is i chose them after someone else grew out a pack of mango and they were all indica dominant short flowering plants that were harvested at the end of september. Not one of those plants looked like the lanky sativas i got. My point is how can you trust what your getting if the plants vary so much from each pack, it makes seed buying a total lottery.
Not a risk worth taking in my opinion just as well use bag seed.

I have flavours I can't stand in weed, mainly pine... anything that smells like pine or tastes like pine disgusts me...

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we're opposite on that too. i love pine! way back before flavor strains, i used to think the imported cali grown columbian gold (sold as thai for the brand recognition) was cool because it smelled like pine cones. i'll NEVER understand how anyone could eat head cheese though. EVERYTHING about that is nasty! LOL

I took my freeby DNA Lemon Skunk and put out some experimental cuttings; the smoke is surprisingly strong. It tastes and smells very good (not so much like lemons for me) and produces some of the more dense nuggets I've seen... it's dense enough that it hardly has any shrink during the drying process. A+. We absolutely loved it.

That's good to know about the DNA Lemon Skunk, I hope I can be as lucky with it this season as you were...

trufflechef said:

A much more reasonable response thanks shannon, i will agree that the plants from the pack of mango were very similar, i did have a high percentage of males that all showed the same internodal spacings and sativa leaves along with similar height. The main problem i have with the seeds is i chose them after someone else grew out a pack of mango and they were all indica dominant short flowering plants that were harvested at the end of september. Not one of those plants looked like the lanky sativas i got. My point is how can you trust what your getting if the plants vary so much from each pack, it makes seed buying a total lottery.
Not a risk worth taking in my opinion just as well use bag seed.

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If it's not worth the risk it's not worth the risk, nobody is going to argue with you that with such a large degree of variation between what you grew and someone else grew from supposedly the same seeds that is most likely isn't worth it... I'm willing to roll the dice as I have a large outdoor area in which to grow, most people aren't so fortunate...

Even with "stable" varieties you have to play the lottery. A grower can not expect to buy a "pick-n-mix" seed and get a good keeper; it is possible but that's the lowest end of the phenotype lottery. Also, don't buy new seeds expecting old results because even Serious Seeds "refresh" their genetics (which pisses me off to no end) but there's nothing to be done about it other than buy some, pop 'em & send the breeder some feedback.

lottery is right....but u have Sensi and Serious who have some of the most stable genetics and at the other end of the spectrum is Barneys and GH. But even with Sensi's fems there are deviations, so the first thing a person needs to learn is how to clone and to convince a friend to grow some of the same strain...because there is nothing worse than loosing all your gear to some lousy spider mite infestation or as in my case a strain of mold that took for ever to get rid of (hydrogen peroxide). Nothing keeps the mites away better than sevin dust which contains 5% carbaryl...lost my 2nd grow to mites and have not even come accross one after using the 7, which is safe for food crops.

even Serious seeds "refresh" their genetics (which pisses me off to no end)

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i have a similar issue because i always wanted to use kali mist for flavor breeding because it's original crushed red pepper flavor was one of the most delicious buds i've ever smoked. it was so authentic and hotter than hot wings spicy. i wanted to breed it with orange and lemon strains to make a curry. now, it still has the same buzz, but is blander sweet and spicy according to a grower i compared notes with. not every flavor goes well with spicy. citrus definitely does though.

the first thing a person needs to learn is how to clone and to convince a friend to grow some of the same strain...because there is nothing worse than loosing all your gear to some lousy spider mite infestation

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cloning weakens your plants and encourages spider mites. i've NEVER had that problem yet and when i showed my 1st grow off to a connected dealer that's seen many gardens, he couldn't believe just how healthy my plants were and figured out they were grown from SEED on his own. that's one way to fight mites, learn how to breed. he also suggested putting plastic over the tops of the soil in one's flower pots and rinsing the plants off in a shower to get rid of mites if they ever happen. i imagine growing outdoors where there are natural predators is another anti-mite solution.

Yeah, I heard about Kali mist too late to get some of the original, which has one of the most enticing flavour descriptions I've ever read...

And outdoors here there are lots of lady bugs, I've never had any bug problems...

I use Sevin brand products myself; the liquid stuff is even better- safe on food crops but is concentrated and kills over 200 varieties of insects rather than the powder, which kills 65 different insects. I usually put the powder around the perimeter of a room and then cover the floor with plastic... and even 1 insect is a rare occurrence ever since.

...I mix the liquid up and spray it on my pots/allow it to dry, insects be gone forever.

so i take it then spider mites crawl their way up plants. i'll have to make a note of that to add the tech to my own grows. so far though, it's never been an issue. i've seen soil bugs & gnats, but they've minded their own biz as far as the plants are concerned so far. i'm thinking about cloning though to get more out of my favorite fems, stretchy sweet haze in particular. i'll have to try that tech. an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of bud, right?

hazey grapes said:

i have a similar issue because i always wanted to use kali mist for flavor breeding because it's original crushed red pepper flavor was one of the most delicious buds i've ever smoked. it was so authentic and hotter than hot wings spicy. i wanted to breed it with orange and lemon strains to make a curry. now, it still has the same buzz, but is blander sweet and spicy according to a grower i compared notes with. not every flavor goes well with spicy. citrus definitely does though.

cloning weakens your plants and encourages spider mites. i've NEVER had that problem yet and when i showed my 1st grow off to a connected dealer that's seen many gardens, he couldn't believe just how healthy my plants were and figured out they were grown from SEED on his own. that's one way to fight mites, learn how to breed. he also suggested putting plastic over the tops of the soil in one's flower pots and rinsing the plants off in a shower to get rid of mites if they ever happen. i imagine growing outdoors where there are natural predators is another anti-mite solution.

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Hahahahaha! You dont care what kind of lie you tell.
There has never been a grower in the world who would say your plants are healthy.

oh, it's trollthor. i accidentally viewed their BS by reading before signing in. just read ALL of his replies, especially the earliest ones to see who's a liar and who isn't. case in point, mocking the health of my plants because i didn't put my fan on a timer last grow due to instigating neighbor trouble when i was just leaving it on 24/7 and my plants got hot spot burned (why i've ALWAYS argued against silver reflective material) and yeah, their health seriosly declined, but not BEFORE my plants, overdue for transplants, AGAIN because of trollho neigbors creating static when i mixed my soil. fuck this lying ass bitch that STALKED me from another forum with other butt buddy trolls. i love my plants and give them nothing but complex organics, and now, full spectrum halide because sodium is just one of the quality lowering shortcuts cash crappers take for yield when you need full spectrum for full terpene expression and THAT'S why my super cali haze freebie tasted like grapes and yours didn't cash cropping bitch! i was using a halide. look at all them healthy plants your lying ass said barneyhack's LSD wasn't in. look at my pride and joy... fruity booty. looks healthy & happy to me, until the light burn caused by outside bitches and snitches and other sellouts up in my non-business biz. that gal i knocked up with joey weed C99 and smoked MUCH nicer (like a generic haze compared to the C99's more like kali mist lightly racy clear headed buzz and fruitier, but not grape UNDER SODIUM, with one of the last before extinction joey weed C99 x A11 male whose pollen i have frozen for future use. cash crapping bitch will say anything because him sowwy momma's boy ass doesn't like it when someone grows for quality only and despises cash crapping no quality afghani slinging sellout bitches and talking about strains that get you high and everything OPPOSITE of what they're doing. if you grow for money and don't want to hear it from customers that DEMAND you get them high, fuck off bitch! you're the reason i even have to do this shit because you're too fucking lazy and GREEDY yourself. i have no interest in profits, just prophets up in here. the brothers up in here growing fine ass panama red, satori, golden tiger and durban poison know what time it is. it's high times someone fucking takes the streets back from quaalude slinging hacks. i won't try to compare my indoor hybrid jacks high gear to the IBL elite growers (12 week haze skunk.s my most IBL type bud so far, not bitchy highland thai... YET), but folks that like getting high would rather smoke my still learning growing, but growing some TOP QUALITY gear, particularly from TGA, DNA, mandala, CH9, john sinclair, high quality seeds, joey weed, & short stuff so far self's BUD than any done to death, feels like a depressing coma, cash crapper greedy bitch indicrap dominant BEASTERS. the only gear i've blazed, besides one sketchy connection's and a few smoke outs, that's gotten me high has been mine. this has to be the reason for all the trollfag hate. i dare put my 2 years worth of low yields (oh fucking no! don't sayu low yielding! oh fucking don't EVER say that fucking word!) bud up against almost 30 years of BULLSHIT cash cropper stone shit. fuck off if you don't like the sky telling your underground stone fuck off and die bitch, i kill you! well your bud at least. it ain't welcome in my room. i so much as catching one of my bitches trying to poo stank my room up like some schwag appeal ho, i cut her ass down and let some sweet smelling low yielding high reaching filly take her place. gotta love that DNA sweet haze! if there's a BETTER 9-12 week fruity haze with even more psychoactivity, no one's sharing what to try next with me the same way i share my "this is what YOU should be growing if you too have had it with stoner bud" experience with them like few others do. you can't stand descent, fuck you bitch! i ain't asking for your fucking permission to do shit bitch! oh, all that fact bustin' made me forget my put up or shut up pics... there trollfag... now post the pics of the shit YOU AIN'T GROWING that gets someone higher, but you can't, because you're just another dimebag a dozen cash crappin' sellout bitch done run out out your end of the month crack you gotta troll for, or could it be a reeferman, barney, greenhouse pre-emptive strike to silence some truth about THAT schwag before people place their newsletter orders? always happens at the end of the month. here's my HEALTHY, most C99 based gear from TWO grows where my plants were fucking healthy enough to fucking squirt babies bitch!