MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

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T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Hi Repvic
RO accumulators generally have a lower maximum working pressure rating (100psi) and smaller capacity than the more expensive tanks (125-150psi). If they are certified they`ll be fine i`d set the pump cut-out point no higher than 90psi.

Something like this one ($45) with 90psi-60psi cut-in/cut-out would give you around 1.3gal of usable capacity
http://www.waterfilters.net/Reverse-Osmosis-System-Bladder-Tank_p_0-486.html
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make sure you get the info from the manufactures website or live person from the manufactures not a retail salesperson. theyll tell you what you want to here. look for the operating pressure like he said not the max pressure. they can blow up. i read a story recently about a plumber who got blown up in New York cause they didnt have a pressure relief valve on the system. they now have a law there where you have to have a pressure relief valve on all accumulator tank systems. code requiered. plumbers use to scoff at pressure relief valves being installed. i guess thier not anymore.
 
repvip

repvip

Well-Known Member
Thanks and thanks!

That water tank is much more reasonably priced that what I was looking at:-P Do you ever need to adjust the air pressue inside the tank?
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
repvip said:
Thanks and thanks!

That water tank is much more reasonably priced that what I was looking at:-P Do you ever need to adjust the air pressue inside the tank?
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The tanks bladder holds its own air charge so that its air never mixes with the water holding portion of the tank. They are often called captive air tanks for that reason. They usually have a small cap on the top of the tank that covers an air valve. The air contained within the bag can be adjusted for different pressure usages. As an example if your pump activates at 50 psi preinflation levels of just under 50 psi of air (45 psi) would mean more water would be available per pump cycle that if the factory pressure was only 30 psi.

Prior to the rubber bag type tanks the tank was just charged with air and eventually alot of the air was lost to the water as DO therefore air need to be added at times. If the new type tanks lose their air then the tank (or the bag if possible) must be replaced.

The old style tank can still be bought and most high pressure applications and commercial applications do still use the older larger tanks. They however are much larger as they are less efficient due to the water air miixing causing air loss over time. They are however nearly always made of much heavier steel and usually carry higher pressure ratings. They are typically glass lined to insure a longer life.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
It pays to check the precharge from time to time, just set it to 2psi below the pumps cut-in pressure. With it set too low you`ll lose some capacity and the pump will run more often. If the pump cuts-in at 60psi, a precharge of 55psi will leave 1.14L in the tank, a precharge of 58psi will leave 0.45L in the tank.
If you need more capacity you can connect several smaller tanks in parallel.
 
T

travish413

Well-Known Member
repvip said:
I recently switched to RO water and have noticed pH dropping for my plants during the later stages of flowering. Before, with tap water, I never had to make pH adjustments. It seems I have to at least every other day now, but the plants love it.

The storage tank that comes with RO systems... is it possible to use that as an accumulator?

The max. psi is 100, but I'm not sure what the capacity is... I don't think it's much, maybe a gallon?

Thanks. Tree farmer, atomizer--you guys are grrrreat!
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These guys know their stuff:!: If running a hp system you need a little more chemistry knowledge than if you were running a more simple hydro system. Not saying you dont just a little fyi and also if you decide on a large metal tank that says 20 gallons it will probably only hold about 7 gallons. Just keep that in mind when buying one.:bigjoint:
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
Plants in early growth and in budding are considered low light plants as they leaf mass is low in the early veg state and the leaves are thick and shading each other during budding due to the thickening dud formation. In low light conditions the roots take up more of their nitrogen as ammoniun nitrogen if it is available. However when it takes up ammonium nitrogen its roots release H+ as it acculmalates in excess. With most tap water there is a higher concentration of carbonates in your nutrients beacuse both the tap water and the nutrient formula provides carbonates or calcium, phosphorus and or magnesium that forms carbonates. The carbonates neutrailize the acids released by the roots. With RO water you have lower amounts of carbonates to absorb the acids as they are released.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
travish413 said:
if you decide on a large metal tank that says 20 gallons it will probably only hold about 7 gallons. Just keep that in mind when buying one.:bigjoint:
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A larger tank allows you to use higher average pressure and maintain useful capacity. HP doesn`t use that much water so don`t go too mad on the tank ;-)

If you need 2.8gal capacity you could use either, a 20 gal @90-75psi, 10gal @90-60psi or 5gal @90-30psi.

The 5 gal wouldn`t fit the bill.. 30psi is way too low. It can give you 1.4gal @90-60psi which may be enough or alternatively you could use two 5 gal tanks.
 
repvip

repvip

Well-Known Member
;-)
travish413 said:
These guys know their stuff:!: If running a hp system you need a little more chemistry knowledge than if you were running a more simple hydro system. Not saying you dont just a little fyi and also if you decide on a large metal tank that says 20 gallons it will probably only hold about 7 gallons. Just keep that in mind when buying one.:bigjoint:
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Thanks. I have a strong chemistry background.. so not worried about that.:bigjoint: It's more of the mechanical aspects that I have questions with.. like these tank tips! :)

The thread is quite useful. After reading a few times, I feel quite confident I could create something similar. And to be honest--I probably will. But I'm not in any rush... I have most of the parts, but still need enough that it has to wait anyway ;)
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
That brings the total number of chemists on the thread up to two then :)
It looks like the main components for HP aero could be bought for around $200 or less, excluding shipping.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
you know im thinking about just eliminating the return lines back to the sunken res for the runoff. reason being is it takes to long with the little flow that goes thru the system to gauge whats actually happening in the pods using the runoff numbers as a guide. what you put in the res doesnt show up in the runoff for 48 hrs. learned this thru the flush ordeal. when i started adding fresh nutes didnt see the real results in the runoff sump for 48 hrs. there is only 10 ft of hose on the pods to the sump.

i think im going to just disconnect the hoses and collect the runoff with some doggy dishes that fit right under the drain and then just dump them whenever they need it. shouldnt be often cause each one holds more than a gallon. i think this way i could get a quicker idea of whats actually going on in the pods at any given moment. just stick the meters into the dish. and im sure i could find some large trays to stick under there if i felt it had to be emptyed to often.

i havent tryed it yet and maybe it isnt the 10ft of hose thats slowing it down but the roots on the chamber floors.but if you look at the chamber floors thru the hatch (where you can see little patches of the chamber floor) you dont see any setting or pooling water. although once the silk screen bottoms are installed nothing should be held back on the chamber floor by the roots(if thats whats doing it).

ive been runing the input ph lower now and the runoff ph is coming out still higher than going in but now in the acceptable range thus preventing any lockout issues from developing in the pods do to a high ph in there.

anyone ever seen or used the bioballs they use in the fish industry. i was thinking of trying a layer of these on the chamber floor to let the roots spread out on.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/3083/Bio-Spheres/bio%20balls/0

do you think they would work. im sure youd probably have to toss them after each use but they might work to keep those bottom roots from mating in anyway
 
S

sherriberry

New Member
this is off topic, but youll understand why im saying it...

i ordered my seeds from bcseeds.com a while back, and im sexxing my plants now.

a lot of people give them a lot of flack because they exagerate yeilds and thc levels... but if you can look past that, i will tell you their normal strains, like ww, ak47, big bud... theirs seem to produce more than other seed banks, so i think they know their stuff when it comes to breeding id say...

but heres what astounds me...

out of about 40 seeds, well over 30 germinated.

of that 30ish number... i had one male.

I repeat, 1 male.

they dont even claim to femenize their product, as it makes it weaker to hermies. THey just give advice on how to make seeds come up as female.

i followed the advice.

maybe im the luckiest guy in the world, but if you guys order seeds in the future, i would strongly suggest trying their stuff... they give tons of freebees too.

reason i bring this up is we spend all this money on these systems, but good dna is worth the money too.

alright, back to HP aero :)

i just bought this 50 psi 330gph, 1/2 hp pump, and im going to just hook that up to the 1gph sprayers, and do a modular daisy chain system with the biggest rubbermaid tubs, and have 4-8 plants in net pots up on the lid.

what will 50 psi get me with these sprayers? :

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=39_67&products_id=985

what kind of micron size will i be producing, and how many of these sprayers would i need per tub?

Im thinking 2 sprayers, shooting straight down from the lid.

as far as my setup goes... it is going to be very similar to this link im about to provide...

except instead of the hydron rocks and 2nd bucket within a bucket... im going to have the aero up top, and the inch or 2 of high flow dwc in the bottom.

The drains, hoses, gutter, resevoir, everything is going to be similar... except im going to be using longer and taller tubs (the 4x2x2 rubermaids)

and im going to have multiple plants per tub. But im still going to have multiple tubs as well.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
sherriberry said:
this is off topic, but youll understand why im saying it...

i ordered my seeds from bcseeds.com a while back, and im sexxing my plants now.

a lot of people give them a lot of flack because they exagerate yeilds and thc levels... but if you can look past that, i will tell you their normal strains, like ww, ak47, big bud... theirs seem to produce more than other seed banks, so i think they know their stuff when it comes to breeding id say...

but heres what astounds me...

out of about 40 seeds, well over 30 germinated.

of that 30ish number... i had one male.

I repeat, 1 male.

they dont even claim to femenize their product, as it makes it weaker to hermies. THey just give advice on how to make seeds come up as female.

i followed the advice.

maybe im the luckiest guy in the world, but if you guys order seeds in the future, i would strongly suggest trying their stuff... they give tons of freebees too.

reason i bring this up is we spend all this money on these systems, but good dna is worth the money too.

alright, back to HP aero :)

i just bought this 50 psi 330gph, 1/2 hp pump, and im going to just hook that up to the 1gph sprayers, and do a modular daisy chain system with the biggest rubbermaid tubs, and have 4-8 plants in net pots up on the lid.

what will 50 psi get me with these sprayers? :

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_info.php?cPath=39_67&products_id=985

what kind of micron size will i be producing, and how many of these sprayers would i need per tub?

Im thinking 2 sprayers, shooting straight down from the lid.

as far as my setup goes... it is going to be very similar to this link im about to provide...

except instead of the hydron rocks and 2nd bucket within a bucket... im going to have the aero up top, and the inch or 2 of high flow dwc in the bottom.

The drains, hoses, gutter, resevoir, everything is going to be similar... except im going to be using longer and taller tubs (the 4x2x2 rubermaids)

and im going to have multiple plants per tub. But im still going to have multiple tubs as well.

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/doubleds-med-patient-bucket-diy-mpb-buckets-7883/
Click to expand...

youll get probably 70 micron if you can keep the pump at 50 psi always. of coarse if you use a cycle timer youll not be getting 50 psi always cause the pump will take a bit to get to 50psi and then when shut off will take a bit to go to zero psi. And if you run the sprayer constantly youll be running a nft _RDWC system. Nothing wrong with that just different from a traditional HP aero setup.

the system the way you have it described will work well provided you keep the RDWC part moving and have adequate spray up top. that said you wont get the HP aero effect up top simply because the pressure is to low and you dont have anyway to provide instant on-off pulses of micro droplets

ive run similar setups only never had the RDWC in the bottom and they will perform well but dont expect to see white fluffy roots. i could be wrong on this ,but at least i never saw them with the lower pressures and no instant on-off pules.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
sherriberry said:
maybe im the luckiest guy in the world
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Any chance you could pm me this weeks lottery numbers? ;)

what will 50 psi get me with these sprayers?
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Spec says, 60-80 microns thats probably geared to 80psi.
The pump ramps from 0-50psi so expect larger droplets until it gets up to pressure and larger droplets as it ramps down again.

How many of these sprayers would i need per tub?
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Spec says, Coverage of 2' to 3' with 6-7' above the ground (no spray angles given) so expect something around 8" at 2ft above the ground in clear space.

You would need to test them to be sure but my guess is you`ll need more than 2 to get complete coverage.
 
S

sherriberry

New Member
hmmm, i was under the impression that the sprayers kind of flooded the chamber, with mist.

------------------
x-------x-------x
---o--------o---
x-------x-------x
------------------

thats my lid, x is plant site, o is sprayer site.

or it could be

x---x---x---x
--o-------o--
x---x---x---x

or it could be

x-----------x
--o-------o--
x-----------x

i figured with any of these setups, the sprayers willbe in the best spot for all of them

the other thing i could do is get a T and have 2 sprayers at each site shooting away from eachother... so instead of jsut 2 sprayers i would have 4.

i will be using a solenoid valve, and letting the pump run constant.

the solenoid will open to let the water just return tot he res, and when it closes, water has to go the other way through a T, and hit the sprayers instead.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
sherriberry said:
hmmm, i was under the impression that the sprayers kind of flooded the chamber, with mist.

------------------
x-------x-------x
---o--------o---
x-------x-------x
------------------

thats my lid, x is plant site, o is sprayer site.

or it could be

x---x---x---x
--o-------o--
x---x---x---x

or it could be

x-----------x
--o-------o--
x-----------x

i figured with any of these setups, the sprayers willbe in the best spot for all of them

the other thing i could do is get a T and have 2 sprayers at each site shooting away from eachother... so instead of jsut 2 sprayers i would have 4.

i will be using a solenoid valve, and letting the pump run constant.

the solenoid will open to let the water just return tot he res, and when it closes, water has to go the other way through a T, and hit the sprayers instead.
Click to expand...
i dont know if this will help you but ive used those exact sprayers before with 40-60 psi and i used 4 of them in a 20 gallon container surrounding 1 10 inch netpot. it worked great at filming the roots with a spray but doesnt engulf the whole container instantly with mist.

the arrangments you show will work as the plants will just grow roots out the side of the netpots where the misters are. very few will grow out the sides between the netpot and the tote wall as there wont be any spray hitting those sides.

those sprayers are 360 degrees. at least when i used them they were. if i had to choose id say the first illustration would work the best. even firing the flow back to the res some of the time i dont think you will get the fine root hairs but you might get pretty close if you can fire the selonoid with seconds-bursts.
 
S

sherriberry

New Member
this first go around...

i know im not going to get fine hairs...

but the sysetm can be made hp with an accumulator and a different pump added at a later date.

i would like to figure out if i should have a T in under the lid that shoots 2 sprayers, one in each direction, or if i should get that 4 sprayer cross one of you guys linked a while back, and drop it down in the tank in each spot, and have 8 sprayers per tub?
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
sherriberry said:
this first go around...

i know im not going to get fine hairs...

but the sysetm can be made hp with an accumulator and a different pump added at a later date.

i would like to figure out if i should have a T in under the lid that shoots 2 sprayers, one in each direction, or if i should get that 4 sprayer cross one of you guys linked a while back, and drop it down in the tank in each spot, and have 8 sprayers per tub?
Click to expand...
The 4 sprayer cross piece works better with the medium pressure pump as there is on that fits the Iwalki pressure range perfectly. The one that is set for 22 psi. You would just set the timer for a shorter spray time. ie 0.5 to 1 second of spray.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
tree farmer said:
well as i was going into the 7 week i noticed the girls just stopped pretty much feeding. i saw the runoff ppm drastically stop. i thought this was probably normal since they were suppose to finish in 8 weeks. I just left it go for a few days but was somewhat puzzeled. After a few days i thought let me check the PH of the runoff. ive always just been checking the PPM of the runoff never thought to check the PH cause its DTW. well i was surprised to see it was about .6 higher than what was going in. so i decieded to give them just PH adjusted RO water then give them some fresh nutes. Well i started the RO water thinking it would only take 5 gallons (1 day regular cycles)or so to flush to 0ppm runoff. well i found out i was wrong. it took nearly 48hrs of straight RO to get the ppms to 0 on the runoff.

it seems to me now that there is some buildup that occures in the system even at low EC levels cause of the root volume and the small amount of flow through the system to flush it on a daily basis.

After reintroducing fresh nutes they again started feeding. of coarse this whole process burned up nearly 5 days. but ive learned a good lesson. a flush every so often would be wise at least once the root mass filles the chamber.
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Are these photos showing the purple colors you were getting earlier when you tried running a lower EC. This is the resulting coloration caused by a phosphorus deficiency. These colors in the dying leaves are preceded by a dull green coloration in the leaves.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/279550-heres-cool-temps-2-week.html

For some reason some growers consider that as the proper results/response from flushing. Go figure.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
fatman7574 said:
Are these photos showing the purple colors you were getting earlier when you tried running a lower EC. This is the resulting coloration caused by a phosphorus deficiency. These colors in the dying leaves are preceded by a dull green coloration in the leaves.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/279550-heres-cool-temps-2-week.html

For some reason some growers consider that as the proper results/response from flushing. Go figure.
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no they dont look like that. im still at a low EC level compared to any other hydro system im familiar with. im finishing at 650ppm .5 conversion. i actually think the only thing wrong was i was a little to light on the feeding going into the first couple weeks of high demand requiered from flowering.
 
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