MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

OregonMeds said:

I'm all about that make it ya-self cheap attitude, as long as it works and will last, and your valve sounds like it should last if put together right.

Thanks for the info, if I don't find your thread let me know about it.

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Im hoping to cost the whole build at about £500/$760 and try to get some good growers to help with nutrients/strains, because I would like to get more people TAG'in as I aint stupid but the info avaliable aint for a layman and I think it needs to be put in the hands of the people not only the few elite.

It doesn't look like this style of growing is as simple as that Essex, people have to blaze the trail, and even then there are better options for the masses than this.


As far as strains it depends on the grow style you are going to run. Here is a list I compiled for the best yielding RDWC indoor trees people have reported so far.

g-13
lemon skunk
Sensi seeds hash plant
Northern Lights
Black Domina
pre 98 bubba kush
romulan
grape romulan
Madness (subrob)
G13widow
Critical Mass (stable cut no nanners)
Mrs. Walker (jalisco kid)
Shit (mr. nice)
Sensi Star (very large yielding pheno)
Hashplant (86 sensi stock from Ozwilla-NL pheno)
blue Dream haze
Uk Cheese
God Bud
Big Kush
Chem D
Blue Dream

OregonMeds said:

It doesn't look like this style of growing is as simple as that Essex, people have to blaze the trail, and even then there are better options for the masses than this.


As far as strains it depends on the grow style you are going to run. Here is a list I compiled for the best yielding RDWC indoor trees people have reported so far.

g-13
lemon skunk
Sensi seeds hash plant
Northern Lights
Black Domina
pre 98 bubba kush
romulan
grape romulan
Madness (subrob)
G13widow
Critical Mass (stable cut no nanners)
Mrs. Walker (jalisco kid)
Shit (mr. nice)
Sensi Star (very large yielding pheno)
Hashplant (86 sensi stock from Ozwilla-NL pheno)
blue Dream haze
Uk Cheese
God Bud
Big Kush
Chem D
Blue Dream

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This style of grow dont have to be complex or expensive, it just is at the moment.
There is no better grow style invented yet, this is NASA stuff!

I couldnt put a man in space but I am going copy there idea on a 5-50 micron spray for real cheap and share a how-to using parts any handyman can use. Im not rushing to finish as I have a grow just flowing and next lot in veg all in soil, but in a few months it will be workin.

Most of my creations work well,

The internet conection im posting from is a home made Wi-Fi satellite dish link 1 mile away from the open router, so much for the 100m range on Wi-Fi. lol

(0.86 gallons/cubic meter)/ day* 2.71 cubic meters = 2.33 gallons/day with a day being 24 hours. That can be reduced even further by suply less nutrient solution when the lights are not on.

Also consider that you will be using a nutrient solution that is very dilute. Figure an EC of about 0.8. Therefore a gallon of a typical 100 x concentrate nutrient solution will make 300 gallons instead of 100 gallons. If it cost $50 a gallon then, ($50/300) * 2.33 = $0.39 per day for drain to waste nutrients.

OregonMeds said:

It doesn't look like this style of growing is as simple as that Essex, people have to blaze the trail, and even then there are better options for the masses than this.


As far as strains it depends on the grow style you are going to run. Here is a list I compiled for the best yielding RDWC indoor trees people have reported so far.

g-13
lemon skunk
Sensi seeds hash plant
Northern Lights
Black Domina
pre 98 bubba kush
romulan
grape romulan
Madness (subrob)
G13widow
Critical Mass (stable cut no nanners)
Mrs. Walker (jalisco kid)
Shit (mr. nice)
Sensi Star (very large yielding pheno)
Hashplant (86 sensi stock from Ozwilla-NL pheno)
blue Dream haze
Uk Cheese
God Bud
Big Kush
Chem D
Blue Dream

Click to expand...

I assume your choice of the wording better option really just means easier to just settling for a mentally simplier methodology requiring less, mental efforts and requiring less observations and learning IE by settling for "well enough" instead.

Sure glad I am not just a part of "the masses" growing with the simply "well enough" methodologies.

Always new abbreviations popping up. What is the R in RDWC.

The best DWC's I have seen produce Bonzai type short internodal plants like HP or air atomized aeros, not trees. The poorer quality DWC produce slow growing trees much like that produced by TAG grows, but TAG grows are quicker.The best DWC systems use much more energy than the HP, air atomized or TAG aero for near the same results but require longer growing times. The poorer DWC commonly used to grow trees use less pump enegy but grow slower so over all use about the same total kwh as the better dwc sysytems to produce about 33% less yield per year.

Yes HP and air atomized aero require learning more about the plants needs then the other systems but the final production costs per gram are much lower and the yearly yield higher.

Poorer systems allow for good, not great, results with very little growing knowledge being needed so that does make them simplier for the masses that choose the "well enough" methodologies. The thing about "well enough" is that some people think soil grows "well enough", some think small tube low pressure aero "well enough." "Well enough" simply means settling for less than the best, maybe eewven less then mid range or possibly even less than poor. We all make our choices.

I said what I said to discourage annoying noobs from bothering you guys, let someone else blaze the trail with an easy to follow recipe type grow journal.

I could have said it's a piece of cake, anyone can do it, and if you have problems fatman will help you.

I went with option 1.


The r is for recirculating that's all. The list comes from the grow style you've already poo poo'd on. It's the current top yielding system which I'd like to replace with the system you've been helping me on with a degassing column, stacked 55 gallon res's etc. or with hp aero detuned to allow trees.


http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/

He has it all laid out perfectly, everything is absolutely set up ideally. It's aimed at those of us with a need to yield enough medicine and still stay within 6 plant per person type plant count legal medical limits. There is really nothing better you could do with dwc than what dd has done, the only reason I want to replace his system is it has height restrictions as the bins are elevated. I would be amazed if you found anything wrong with his setup other than it's not hp aero. (And not counting how overly complicated you consider a setup like that vs needle wheel or whatever. I mean his setup is ideal as far as performance/yield.)




http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/

OregonMeds said:

I said what I said to discourage annoying noobs from bothering you guys, let someone else blaze the trail with an easy to follow recipe type grow journal.

I could have said it's a piece of cake, anyone can do it, and if you have problems fatman will help you.

I went with option 1.


The r is for recirculating that's all. The list comes from the grow style you've already poo poo'd on. It's the current top yielding system which I'd like to replace with the system you've been helping me on with a degassing column, stacked 55 gallon res's etc. or with hp aero detuned to allow trees.


http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/

He has it all laid out perfectly, everything is absolutely set up ideally. It's aimed at those of us with a need to yield enough medicine and still stay within 6 plant per person type plant count legal medical limits. There is really nothing better you could do with dwc than what dd has done, the only reason I want to replace his system is it has height restrictions as the bins are elevated. I would be amazed if you found anything wrong with his setup other than it's not hp aero. (And not counting how overly complicated you consider a setup like that vs needle wheel or whatever. I mean his setup is ideal as far as performance/yield.)




http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f131/

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I really doubt there are many non recirculating DWC systems.

High cost, very high operation and maintenance costs and smaller, slower yields. How many specific problems in design would you like me to point out? To begin with the largest gets design flaw is that common to most systems. It is a recirculating nutrient system. Problem that alone there a large number of compounding problems. Secondly it is aqua culture and do to that a huge number of obvious problems, inefficiencies/inadequacies and energy wastage become burdensome. There really is not a lot of good about the systems as it is just a system where burdensome band aids with high maintenance and operation costs are used to force a poor methodology into appearing to be a system with adequate yields in a reasonable time period. It is as I said earlier better than the other DWC systems as far as plant health, growing cycle lengths and yield, but it is a poor performer in comparison to a high pressure deep chamber aero or air atomized aero and it has a much higher operation cost and per gram production cost then the high pressure deep chamber aero or air atomized aero. Even the cost of setting up the systems is outrageous. Four "sad" Danner 1800 pumps at $155 each. I would not recommend a Danner pump to anyone. Not even Earl or Roseman. 145 watts for 1800 gph. Buy some Reeflo pumps at 3600 watts for the same or less wattage draw.

Nothing impressive about the design, its performance in relation to its purchase/maintenance and operations costs. I would not even consider the system without at least adding both a pH and an EC controller and the four pumps required (or solenoids/pinch valves) needed for fluid dispensing. An automatic water top off device would be wise also. Do you want more specifics such as why anyone would use a double handful of air stones when they could use simple venturis for much greater efficiency and virtually no maintenance requirements. I would have to make a very large reply to cover all the problems of such a DWC systems. Better option system? I think not.

As far as being the highest yielder. My old medium pressure large tube aeros produce higher yields with lower set up cost/, lower maintenace and lower operation costs then the systems you tout. They are shorter cycles and the yield is g higher per square foot of space used. The over all cost per gram for production is less. And the medium pressure aero will easily produce either fast SOG or trees without physical changes being made to the system except putting empty pots wo ith neoprene rounds in empty holes. The air atomized is easily out performing the medium pressure with fast compact SOG grows producing tighter heavier buds in a shorter cycle time. I don't grow trees (except for clones and seeds) as they are lower yield higher cost indoor grows. Even in an outdoor green house grow I would choose SOG, not trees. The tree grows other than looking impressive are really only advantageous to those trying to stay within legal grow allowances in medical mj states based on total live plants allowed at one time.

I knew you were going to give the whole rundown again, I am not disagreeing with any of it. I already tried to head you off there saying I knew you'd say it was overcomplicated blah blah blah needle wheel pump etc I agree with all of it I only meant that as far as rdwc and how productive you can make it, he has it nailed.

Can other systems do better with trees and limited plant counts like that whole system is specifically aimed at, with a veg room to allow the flower room to flip like a sog?

I believe you there too, just haven't seen it yet. I need to put together a system to prove you right, nobody else has.

I think you need to define trees. To me trees are about 4 foot tall plants or larger. Most of the better quality DWC's grow about 20 to 30 inch tall plants as are common to non quick SOG HP or air atomized deep chamber aero grows. A DWC with many pumps and airstones etc also produce the same short plants as is common to typical HP or air atomized deep chamber aero grows. They do not produce trees usually as they have to many hair roots for tall tree growth. So basically they produce plants almost as bonzai inqualities as the HP or air atomized deep chamber aero grows but at a higher operating/growing cost due to the high wattages used by all the pumps and air pump(s). There lighting systems are usually much less efficient also as they typically use vertical lighting.

There are more than just a few systems that prove me right. Those systems are just owned my people who do not post photos. I have not posted a photo of any part of a growing system or any product from a system since 2001. I have also, not surprisingly, been indicted or arraigned for any growing charges since I quit posting photos. One felony conviction and a subsequent prison term was enough to convince me grow forum photos are a a bad idea. I do not recommend people post photos of grow room equipment or mj. Unless they like stell bars that go clang behind them. There is the free three hots and the cot though. Two inch thick mats over a steel plate is really notthat great ofa cot though. Prison meals are not delightful.

yeah I was doing the calculations on my phone I screwed up big time on them somehow. It gets me closer to a starting point I know roughly what size res. I would want to get And I think I will just use a 50gal drum gives me a lot of cushion I like the numbers a lot more now.

OregonMeds said:

Doesn't sound right at all. Post your math.

You have 2.71 cubic meters according to google and if you are going on his calculations, without even accounting for a single plant in the thing, then you are looking at 27.1ml x .25 = 6.775ml per minute and you can go from there.

But that was all hypothetical, and isn't going to tell you much.

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We should not argue about what is the BEST grow style, NASA done this for us! 5-50 micron mist in a large air space............ (You cant argue with them boys till YOU put a man in space, they spent milions of pounds in research and built a place called the epcot center to show there grows)

You can argue that it is not best for EVERYONE as lots of people use mud because they cant/wont/dont strive for perfection.

DWC is among the better hydroponics but is not even in the same book let alone on the same page!

There are NO high-preassure grow systems avaliable that are suitable unless you are in the trade and these are stupid expensive and custom built,I dont think there WILL BE any because as far as im aware NASA's partners own the patents and aint gunna want you to grow weed wiv em!

Anyway back to trying to regulate water pressure for cheap. (Come on fatman I need ya help!)

I found this, http://www.esska-tech.co.uk/cgi-bin/esska_eng/iboshop.cgi?showd10420!0,966728474475496,irXmsirXes00 but its $656 I was thinking about $100 would be a good price. +million rep for anyone who finds a cheap one!

fatman are you saying that an air pump can be replaced with some sort of venturi valve??!! I'm very interested in that..I only know of venturi in carbs...i know they're a SMALL tapered needle and such, how could you get air in your res with one?

Yes venturi valves can replace air stones. They perform much better than airstones. A venturi valve can be installed on either the pump exit or entrance. If installed on the entrance they airlinerunning to the venturi needs to have a ball ot gate valve on it to prevent too much air from being drawn into the pump. To much air cai uses the pump to cavitate (run inbalnaced) which lowers its life span. Using the venturi on the exit prevents that but it created larger air bubbles. On the entrance side the bubbles are chopped up by the pumps inpellor creating many very, very small bubbles. Commercial green house operators use venturi valves not airstones. To get really huge amounts of bubbles fedd the venturi valve with an air pump. This air also need to be controlled or the pump can get too much air and it will not restart pumping after a power outage as it would not be able to build up enough water pressure.

Here is a link to some venturi valves.

http://www.petstore.com/venturi+valve-si.html

Typically the more common fluid regulators are for inlet pressures of 300 psi or less with outlet pressures of 150 psi or less. Something with pressures as high as your talking for an inlet pressure would typically only be used by the oil industry or petrochemical energy. Usually only gases are stored at such high pressures, not fluids. The regulator you provide a link to is for gases not liquid. Are you building a HP aero or an air atomized aero system? Even with air at pressures that high the pressure wold be done by a tow part regulator. The first part wold step the pressure down to something like 150 psi and the second part (the adjustable part) would run from zero psi to 150 psi (for an example).

Essex said:

We should not argue about what is the BEST grow style, NASA done this for us! 5-50 micron mist in a large air space............ (You cant argue with them boys till YOU put a man in space, they spent milions of pounds in research and built a place called the epcot center to show there grows)

You can argue that it is not best for EVERYONE as lots of people use mud because they cant/wont/dont strive for perfection.

DWC is among the better hydroponics but is not even in the same book let alone on the same page!

There are NO high-preassure grow systems avaliable that are suitable unless you are in the trade and these are stupid expensive and custom built,I dont think there WILL BE any because as far as im aware NASA's partners own the patents and aint gunna want you to grow weed wiv em!

Anyway back to trying to regulate water pressure for cheap. (Come on fatman I need ya help!)

I found this, http://www.esska-tech.co.uk/cgi-bin/esska_eng/iboshop.cgi?showd10420!0,966728474475496,irXmsirXes00 but its $656 I was thinking about $100 would be a good price. +million rep for anyone who finds a cheap one!

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That regulator type is available on eBayfor less than $100. Actually you could probably get it for $50. It is a gas regulator not a fluid regulator. Inlet at up to 3000 psi and outlet from zero to 150 psi. http://cgi.ebay.com/Tescom-44-High-Flow-Purge-Regulator-Pressure-Gas-Valve-/220595315130?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335c8161ba

sorry fatman, why does it say this in description on page?

Application

• High Pressure Regulator Max. 276 bar
• For Gases and Fluids

The site is wrong or will all regulators of this type work with fluids as gas in cylinders could be liqud in tank is inverted????

fatman7574 said:

Typically the more common fluid regulators are for inlet pressures of 300 psi or less with outlet pressures of 150 psi or less. Something with pressures as high as your talking for an inlet pressure would typically only be used by the oil industry or petrochemical energy. Usually only gases are stored at such high pressures, not fluids. The regulator you provide a link to is for gases not liquid. Are you building a HP aero or an air atomized aero system? Even with air at pressures that high the pressure wold be done by a tow part regulator. The first part wold step the pressure down to something like 150 psi and the second part (the adjustable part) would run from zero psi to 150 psi (for an example).

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I only want HP aero, could just get a 120psi pump for window washers van off e-bay for £100 but I want a bit more pressure and allready got a pressure washer sat next to me.

Can't really argue with the add, but it is uncommon for high pressure regulators to be both fluid and gas unless it is for gases in a fluid state. My self for HP fluid I would use a step down regulator followed by an all plastic low pressure regulator. I am not much for brass, steel or even stainless steel in contact with a solution heavy in corrosive salts. The life span is just too short. While a item might say for gas or liquid that does not mean equally as well for both especially when it comes to working life spans. I am really confused with why you are using such a very highpressure pump. The efficiency of the pump goes down extremely fast as the pressure output increases. The only advantage to the higher pressures is the smaller storage space required. Thi is usually offset by the increased costs of power consumed and the higher prices for the storage vessel and the higher pressure gages, controls (pressure switches, regulators and solenoids).

Because bigger is better, lol. na really coz most 5-50 micron spray nozzles I found work with 1000PSI for misting people to keep em cool, seems a fairly everyday item so the spray nozzles are cheap and easly replaceable.

Storage vessel, is just a medical grade NOS bottle that I had the pleasure to empty into my lungs. cost free from m8, am going to see if it has a coating inside else I might teflon coat as I heard this to be good protection?

Ya seem to worry alot about power consumption of hydro systems? this is normaly a tiny cost compared to the HPS sat above and I dont consider a huge prob.

My jetwash is 1600w, 1500psi, 360l/h. so to fill my 21L tank to 1500PSI will take 3.5 min and last over 12 hours? that aint much power?

When they say fluid I doubt they're considering the complex mix of junk our liquid contains which is going to build up a residue quick.
They are probably considering just like you said the liquid states of the gasses it's meant for, they don't leave residue.

I don't know man, sounds like it's worth a try but I bet you are going to need something else or maybe use a regulator and more than one meter so you can see when they start to disagree and replace them at different times so one is always newer than the other.

The cheap nozzles to mist people, can those really be trusted to get accurate spray from down to the micron? Seriously?
That would be great, I'd love to be wrong, but I can't see that being possible. They wouldn't even test them that seriously when they are designed for that purpose. Quality control would not test on that level to be sure they were maintaining the same size mist through manufacturing variations.

I have experience in plastic injection molding process monitoring and die casting and a few other areas, not that in depth, but enough to know how much variation occurs and failure rates in quality control etc.

How is it possible on a micron scale?