Ohio Legalization
- Thread starter Midflappdaman
- Start date
hotrodharley
Well-Known Member
Drugs / Substances listed in DEA Schedule I include:
Listing pot as any schedule is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous.
- Heroin (diacetylmorphine)
- LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide)
- Marijuana (cannabis, THC)
- Mescaline (Peyote)
- MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine or “ecstasy”)
- GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyric acid)
- Ecstasy (MDMA or 3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine)
- Psilocybin
- Methaqualone (Quaalude)
- Khat (Cathinone)
- Bath Salts (3,4-methylenedioxypyrovalerone or MDPV)
http://www.drugs.com/article/csa-schedule-1.html
Listing pot as any schedule is ridiculous. Totally ridiculous.
Wtf is Khat?
hotrodharley
Well-Known Member
Narcotics induce sleep and are not related to the strain of poppy. Pot is not a narcotic by any description. Narcs also suppress brain stem activity which is why many junkies simply stop breathing after a good dose.The listing was totally political and was designed to give the Feds a reason to immediately deport illegal Mexicans. THIS is the political atmosphere around pot. Ignorance and fear buy idiots in charge. Plus there are those who want it illegal to keep profits up.
hotrodharley
Well-Known Member
http://www.livescience.com/37948-what-is-khat-cathinone.html
What is khat?
Khat is a flowering evergreen shrub native to East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. The plant (Catha edulis) contains two alkaloids, cathinone and cathine, which act as stimulants.
Users simply chew the green khat leaves, keeping a ball of partially chewed leaves against the inside of their cheek (not unlike chewing tobacco).
The dried leaves can also be used in this way, though they have less potency. Some khat users also smoke the drug, make it into tea or sprinkle it on food.
An ancient tradition
Use of khat has been a tradition for centuries throughout Somalia, Yemen and Ethiopia, where khat cafes ("mafrishes") are often found. Khat leaves are chewed by students before exams, in the morning before work or at social gatherings, according to the Los Angeles Times.
The effects of khat (also known as qat, qaad, Arabian tea, kat and chat) are similar to those of other amphetamines, according to authorities like the Drug Enforcement Administration. Khat users report feelings of well-being, mental alertness, excitement and euphoria.
Though khat is generally described as a mild stimulant, there is consistent evidence of overuse and addiction. Long-term use or abuse has been linked to "insomnia, anorexia, gastric disorders, depression, liver damage" and heart attack, according to a 2009 study from the Austrian medical journal Wiener klinische Wochenschrift. [The 9 Oddest Medical Case Reports]
"Manic and delusional behavior, violence, suicidal depression, hallucinations, paranoia and khat-induced psychosis have also been reported," the study authors wrote.
RO is not perfect.
But as has been pointed out, RO has the money to wage a serious campaign to win approval of Issue 3 and a rejection of Issue 2 (Issue 2 is a hurried effort by the Ohio Legislature to block Issue 3).
Are there other proposed iniatitives that may be better than RO? Yes!
Do any of those efforts have even a hint of enough money to carry through? NO!
Our Miami Valley Chapter (Cincinnati & Dayton) of OhioNORML is solidly behind Issue 3 because not only should the perfect not be allowed to be the enemy of progress, but we figure we may be in for a long wait of something like 3 to 5 years if we don't get approval of Issue 3.
Bottom line:
Money is an essential ingredient of success and Issue 3 offers a solid improvement over the status quo of prohibition. Of course the money behind RO expects a return on their significant investment...naturally they do.
Most arguments against RO & Issue 3 are pure BS and/or irrelevant.
Especially the arguments offered by RO opponents that are members of the cannabis community in Ohio.
Monopoly or cartel? We already have that with prohibition. Along with the illegality that causes so much harm and miser
Those in the cannabis community against RO should try a serious strategy: Join us in voting in favor of Issue 3, then bone up on cultivation materials, grow 4 great female plants, share with your friends and overgrow RO retails sales and profits.
But as has been pointed out, RO has the money to wage a serious campaign to win approval of Issue 3 and a rejection of Issue 2 (Issue 2 is a hurried effort by the Ohio Legislature to block Issue 3).
Are there other proposed iniatitives that may be better than RO? Yes!
Do any of those efforts have even a hint of enough money to carry through? NO!
Our Miami Valley Chapter (Cincinnati & Dayton) of OhioNORML is solidly behind Issue 3 because not only should the perfect not be allowed to be the enemy of progress, but we figure we may be in for a long wait of something like 3 to 5 years if we don't get approval of Issue 3.
Bottom line:
Money is an essential ingredient of success and Issue 3 offers a solid improvement over the status quo of prohibition. Of course the money behind RO expects a return on their significant investment...naturally they do.
Most arguments against RO & Issue 3 are pure BS and/or irrelevant.
Especially the arguments offered by RO opponents that are members of the cannabis community in Ohio.
Monopoly or cartel? We already have that with prohibition. Along with the illegality that causes so much harm and miser
Those in the cannabis community against RO should try a serious strategy: Join us in voting in favor of Issue 3, then bone up on cultivation materials, grow 4 great female plants, share with your friends and overgrow RO retails sales and profits.
Last edited:
Any new updates on Ohio legalization? I understand Prop 2 and 3 will be on the ballot for November but what of the other proposals? Any progress or hope there?
Also for those already in legal states that allow home grows - is there a risk with attaining permitting? Any stories of harassment since with a permit they know where you are and what you're doing? Just curious. Ohio is my native land. Would like to return there. End of prohibition would be the icing on the cake! Hopeful but not holding breath.
Also for those already in legal states that allow home grows - is there a risk with attaining permitting? Any stories of harassment since with a permit they know where you are and what you're doing? Just curious. Ohio is my native land. Would like to return there. End of prohibition would be the icing on the cake! Hopeful but not holding breath.
It's getting bizarre here in OhighO.
While NORML at the national level has endorsed ResponsibleOhio (RO), it appears that only the Miami Valley NORML chapter has endorsed RO, while all other Ohio chapters rejected RO. It would appear then that Ohio NORML does not endorse RO though there has yet to be any announcement of the results of the poll of all Ohio NORML members, or official position of Ohio NORML.
The fact of the matter is that unless properly $funded$, any and all ballot initiatives will likely face a steep uphill struggle that is just about impossible under Ohio's less than optimum ballot access process.
Those that want *perfection* in the repeal of cannibis prohibition in Ohio would be better served to support RO then work to improve it as that may be a damn sight easier than starting from scratch with little or no funding. We may have to wait five years for relief if RO fails...I hope the anti-RO perfectionists are content that a vote against RO is a vote to sustain the status quo...possibly for many years.
While it is disappointing to see the display of anti-RO attitude among the cannabis community we may be fortunate that their votes are a small part of the electorate.
The issue will be decided largely by people that are not stoners, people that see a miserable failure of a policy-cannabis prohibition-that is just too expensive in human as well as tax dollars.
In these times of tight and shortfall budgets, how idiotic is it for Ohio to continue to:
-waste 120 million dollars per year to enforce the obviously unenforceable
-forego hundreds of millions of tax revenue that instead flows to the *monopoly* nasty drug cartels
-arrest 18-20,000 Ohio residents per year for cannabis possession
-refuse Ohio citizen's access to medicinal-theraputic cannabis (medicine that can be grown at home rather than purchasing expensive pharmaceutical chemicals)
Issue 2 is a thinly disguised and hurridly cobbled together effort by the do-nothing-about-cannabis-prohibition Ohio House and Senate to block RO, using anti 'monopoly' BS as their excuse for attempting to thwart home-rule by Ohioans. Remarkably, these legislators can't be bothered by 'monopoly' control of Ohio casinos and privately-operated prisons-for-profit that are operating in Ohio.
Ohioans should vote NO on issue 2 in order to preserve their right to alter government
Ohioans should vote YES on issue 3 in order to RE-legalize cannabis/marihuana/marijuana
Interestingly, Ohio NORML at the state level is apparently attempting to grab the cash raised by the Miami Valley NORML chapter. MV NORML has been the leader in fundraising due in no small part to the energetic efforts of former Ohio NORML and Miami Valley NORML president Rob Ryan, who was ejected in a very due-process-less procedure due to the dissatisfaction of some members regarding Rob's even-handed support for any and all efforts that seek to end cannabis prohibition...including-and especially-ResponsibleOhio.
Sheesh...no wonder so many are turned off by politics.
While NORML at the national level has endorsed ResponsibleOhio (RO), it appears that only the Miami Valley NORML chapter has endorsed RO, while all other Ohio chapters rejected RO. It would appear then that Ohio NORML does not endorse RO though there has yet to be any announcement of the results of the poll of all Ohio NORML members, or official position of Ohio NORML.
The fact of the matter is that unless properly $funded$, any and all ballot initiatives will likely face a steep uphill struggle that is just about impossible under Ohio's less than optimum ballot access process.
Those that want *perfection* in the repeal of cannibis prohibition in Ohio would be better served to support RO then work to improve it as that may be a damn sight easier than starting from scratch with little or no funding. We may have to wait five years for relief if RO fails...I hope the anti-RO perfectionists are content that a vote against RO is a vote to sustain the status quo...possibly for many years.
While it is disappointing to see the display of anti-RO attitude among the cannabis community we may be fortunate that their votes are a small part of the electorate.
The issue will be decided largely by people that are not stoners, people that see a miserable failure of a policy-cannabis prohibition-that is just too expensive in human as well as tax dollars.
In these times of tight and shortfall budgets, how idiotic is it for Ohio to continue to:
-waste 120 million dollars per year to enforce the obviously unenforceable
-forego hundreds of millions of tax revenue that instead flows to the *monopoly* nasty drug cartels
-arrest 18-20,000 Ohio residents per year for cannabis possession
-refuse Ohio citizen's access to medicinal-theraputic cannabis (medicine that can be grown at home rather than purchasing expensive pharmaceutical chemicals)
Issue 2 is a thinly disguised and hurridly cobbled together effort by the do-nothing-about-cannabis-prohibition Ohio House and Senate to block RO, using anti 'monopoly' BS as their excuse for attempting to thwart home-rule by Ohioans. Remarkably, these legislators can't be bothered by 'monopoly' control of Ohio casinos and privately-operated prisons-for-profit that are operating in Ohio.
Ohioans should vote NO on issue 2 in order to preserve their right to alter government
Ohioans should vote YES on issue 3 in order to RE-legalize cannabis/marihuana/marijuana
Interestingly, Ohio NORML at the state level is apparently attempting to grab the cash raised by the Miami Valley NORML chapter. MV NORML has been the leader in fundraising due in no small part to the energetic efforts of former Ohio NORML and Miami Valley NORML president Rob Ryan, who was ejected in a very due-process-less procedure due to the dissatisfaction of some members regarding Rob's even-handed support for any and all efforts that seek to end cannabis prohibition...including-and especially-ResponsibleOhio.
Sheesh...no wonder so many are turned off by politics.
Last edited:
Anything is potentially possible.
Such a write-in election process would not be practical, as it would (A) take an enormous amount of time, and (B) would yield likely wildly divergent views that would lead to majority approval...of what, since there would be little chance of any consensus? Remember the 'hanging chads' of the Bush-Gore election in 2000? Just think of the hijinks as board of elections personnel attempt to tally all those varied write-in ballots.
Now, what would really be cool is if individuals did *whatever* they wanted, restricted only by the equal rights of others...it's a neat idea known as Liberty.
Such a write-in election process would not be practical, as it would (A) take an enormous amount of time, and (B) would yield likely wildly divergent views that would lead to majority approval...of what, since there would be little chance of any consensus? Remember the 'hanging chads' of the Bush-Gore election in 2000? Just think of the hijinks as board of elections personnel attempt to tally all those varied write-in ballots.
Now, what would really be cool is if individuals did *whatever* they wanted, restricted only by the equal rights of others...it's a neat idea known as Liberty.
In Ohio the choice seems clear-between the ending of cannabis prohibition via the ResponsibleOhio plan that is issue 3 and a continuation of the status quo which means treating the cannabis community as criminals.
We can vote NO on issue 2 and YES on issue 3, and see what ResponsibleOhio creates and work to improve it, or stubbornly hold out for the pie in the sky of *perfection in ending cannabis prohibition*, reject issue 3 and wait for years-maybe as many as 5 years or longer-for something to magically happen...
I say 'magically' because without $money$ the OTEP and other ballot initiative proposals will likely go nowhere, while the Ohio House and Senate wallow in their victory at obstructing the end of cannabis prohibition in Ohio. The legislators appear to be in a hissy-fit because ResponsibleOhio wisely chose to bypass the Columbus money-launderers in the Ohio House & Senate and distribute tax proceeds directly to county and local governments.
Since approval of issue 3 would combine savings (100+ million dollars/year) from not having the justice system attempt to enforce the impossible, and additional tax revenue to local and county governments of as much as 476 million dollars/year that would otherwise flow to the violent nasty drug cartels in Mexico, it would sure appear that ResponsibleOhio is a win for all...
Some seem worried that the 'rich' will get richer.
C'mon, grow up, when the hell was that not the case in whatever society you examined, even those with socialist/communist governments?
*Somebody*is gonna get rich or richer on cannabis sales in Ohio (the somebody right now is the drug cartels)...wouldn't it be better that they be Ohio citizen entrepreneurs rather than the Mexican drug lords?
Still, if the worry persists that individual investors associated with ResponsibleOhio will get rich, or richer, then purchase cannabis grow guides and absorb the content, vote NO on issue 2 & YES on issue 3, get your license to grow 4 green ladies and bypass ResponsibleOhio's commercial cannabis production and supply yourself and your friends with free profit-less cannabis from your homegrow.
We can vote NO on issue 2 and YES on issue 3, and see what ResponsibleOhio creates and work to improve it, or stubbornly hold out for the pie in the sky of *perfection in ending cannabis prohibition*, reject issue 3 and wait for years-maybe as many as 5 years or longer-for something to magically happen...
I say 'magically' because without $money$ the OTEP and other ballot initiative proposals will likely go nowhere, while the Ohio House and Senate wallow in their victory at obstructing the end of cannabis prohibition in Ohio. The legislators appear to be in a hissy-fit because ResponsibleOhio wisely chose to bypass the Columbus money-launderers in the Ohio House & Senate and distribute tax proceeds directly to county and local governments.
Since approval of issue 3 would combine savings (100+ million dollars/year) from not having the justice system attempt to enforce the impossible, and additional tax revenue to local and county governments of as much as 476 million dollars/year that would otherwise flow to the violent nasty drug cartels in Mexico, it would sure appear that ResponsibleOhio is a win for all...
Some seem worried that the 'rich' will get richer.
C'mon, grow up, when the hell was that not the case in whatever society you examined, even those with socialist/communist governments?
*Somebody*is gonna get rich or richer on cannabis sales in Ohio (the somebody right now is the drug cartels)...wouldn't it be better that they be Ohio citizen entrepreneurs rather than the Mexican drug lords?
Still, if the worry persists that individual investors associated with ResponsibleOhio will get rich, or richer, then purchase cannabis grow guides and absorb the content, vote NO on issue 2 & YES on issue 3, get your license to grow 4 green ladies and bypass ResponsibleOhio's commercial cannabis production and supply yourself and your friends with free profit-less cannabis from your homegrow.
Considering the verbiage on home growing I believe informed voters would have a hard time passing this proposal. OTEP and/or LegalizeOhio needs to speak louder our find ways to be a stronger presence. You only hear about RO! Time is running out for Ohioans.....
First, I want to make it clear that my view is that individuals have a natural right to cultivate and make use of the plants they choose. A natural right cannot be licensed as that means it is not a "right". This would seem to be *perfection in cannabis freedom* and while such is a worthy goal, practicality intrudes to tell us that that is unattainable in the short term.
I read the LegalizeOhio page you linked to and there are valid concerns, though it made no mention of this from Section I of the amendment:
Regulatory rules shall not prohibit the operation of marijuana establishments or home growing, either expressly or through regulations that make their operation unreasonably impracticable.
On its face this would appear to alleviate at least some if not all concerns, though the devil is always in the details, especially when dealing with governments.
Even if the dire predictions prove true and ResponsibleOhio’s homegrow turns out to suck big time, I will be content to purchase ResponsibleOhio commercial weed at the local cannabis shop-assuming a better deal than the underground black market offers at that time-until such time that homegrow is provided for.
On the LegalizeOhio page there is a characterization of Ohio Governor Kasich as “not a friend to marijuana”. While Kasich has been making comments in opposition to RE-legalization of cannabis, it should be remembered that he took steps so that Ohio could opt out of the DOT regulations calling for driver’s license suspensions of offenders of marijuana laws, and it’s certainly not his fault that the Ohio House and Senate have refused to do their part in order to complete the task. Governor Kasich supported defanging the harsh paraphernalia penalties as well as ending the firearms disability for low-level marijuana offenders which has been a common sense relief for Ohioans.
Observing these critical cannabis reforms carried out by Kasich makes his anti-marijuana stance inexplicable…how does he square accepting that cannabis folks can be responsible firearms owners, and should not face harsh penalties for possessing a smoking appliance, but still must endure cannabis prohibition? Only with bizarro-world logic...
Politicians twist in the wind and the cannabis wind is blowing ever harder. Latest polls show Ohioans at 56% support of general RE-legalizing and over 90% favoring therapeutic/medicinal cannabis, so watch for some ‘evolution’ on Kasich’s part-it’s where the votes of the future are…
Let us boil this down to the true harsh reality: without proper funding (that means millions of dollars) any and all ballot initiative prospects seeking some form of cannabis RE-legalization are almost assuredly doomed to failure, otherwise NORML or ORG or somebody would have at this point achieved *something*, but we have exactly zilch to show for all efforts at reforming cannabis prohibition so far…except the solitary example that was cash-rich, which of course is ResponsibleOhio (RO).
I remember my own initial negative reaction to RO, which didn’t last long as I came to realize the importance funding plays in the process…money-lot’s of it…is essential.
And let’s face it, the folks that ponied up tens of millions of dollars want a return on their investment, just as any of us would expect from making an investment.
Do I want *perfection in cannabis freedom* for Ohio (and the world)?
You bet I do.
Do I want to wait what might be a Rip-Van-Winkle sort of wait for that perfection to happen, while in the meantime the status quo of cannabis prohibition carries on, disrupting and ruining lives, wasting tax dollars and foregoing tax revenues?
In a word…NO.
Despite the fact that RO is not close to perfection, it is an undeniable step forward. I hope many fellow Ohioans join me in voting NO on Issue 2 in order to preserve our right to alter our form of government, and voting YES on Issue 3 in order to provide the basis of the goal of RE-legalization.
Does anyone really think making adjustments and alterations to RO after its approval by voters will be more difficult than pushing through a different ballot measure without lots of money-which appears unlikely-underlying the effort?
If RO fails November 3 Ohio can expect to wait a good three to five years at minimum for something to happen in Ohio…assuming no effort is heavily funded.
The question for the cannabis community in regard to ResponsibleOhio Issue 3 would seem to be:
Does Issue 3 offer a better alternative to Ohio’s status quo of cannabis prohibition?
As an either/or how can people-especially cannabis people-decide to accept perfect prohibition over imperfect RE-legalization???
I agree the implementation of Issue 3 is an unknown.
I read the LegalizeOhio page you linked to and there are valid concerns, though it made no mention of this from Section I of the amendment:
Regulatory rules shall not prohibit the operation of marijuana establishments or home growing, either expressly or through regulations that make their operation unreasonably impracticable.
On its face this would appear to alleviate at least some if not all concerns, though the devil is always in the details, especially when dealing with governments.
Even if the dire predictions prove true and ResponsibleOhio’s homegrow turns out to suck big time, I will be content to purchase ResponsibleOhio commercial weed at the local cannabis shop-assuming a better deal than the underground black market offers at that time-until such time that homegrow is provided for.
On the LegalizeOhio page there is a characterization of Ohio Governor Kasich as “not a friend to marijuana”. While Kasich has been making comments in opposition to RE-legalization of cannabis, it should be remembered that he took steps so that Ohio could opt out of the DOT regulations calling for driver’s license suspensions of offenders of marijuana laws, and it’s certainly not his fault that the Ohio House and Senate have refused to do their part in order to complete the task. Governor Kasich supported defanging the harsh paraphernalia penalties as well as ending the firearms disability for low-level marijuana offenders which has been a common sense relief for Ohioans.
Observing these critical cannabis reforms carried out by Kasich makes his anti-marijuana stance inexplicable…how does he square accepting that cannabis folks can be responsible firearms owners, and should not face harsh penalties for possessing a smoking appliance, but still must endure cannabis prohibition? Only with bizarro-world logic...
Politicians twist in the wind and the cannabis wind is blowing ever harder. Latest polls show Ohioans at 56% support of general RE-legalizing and over 90% favoring therapeutic/medicinal cannabis, so watch for some ‘evolution’ on Kasich’s part-it’s where the votes of the future are…
Let us boil this down to the true harsh reality: without proper funding (that means millions of dollars) any and all ballot initiative prospects seeking some form of cannabis RE-legalization are almost assuredly doomed to failure, otherwise NORML or ORG or somebody would have at this point achieved *something*, but we have exactly zilch to show for all efforts at reforming cannabis prohibition so far…except the solitary example that was cash-rich, which of course is ResponsibleOhio (RO).
I remember my own initial negative reaction to RO, which didn’t last long as I came to realize the importance funding plays in the process…money-lot’s of it…is essential.
And let’s face it, the folks that ponied up tens of millions of dollars want a return on their investment, just as any of us would expect from making an investment.
Do I want *perfection in cannabis freedom* for Ohio (and the world)?
You bet I do.
Do I want to wait what might be a Rip-Van-Winkle sort of wait for that perfection to happen, while in the meantime the status quo of cannabis prohibition carries on, disrupting and ruining lives, wasting tax dollars and foregoing tax revenues?
In a word…NO.
Despite the fact that RO is not close to perfection, it is an undeniable step forward. I hope many fellow Ohioans join me in voting NO on Issue 2 in order to preserve our right to alter our form of government, and voting YES on Issue 3 in order to provide the basis of the goal of RE-legalization.
Does anyone really think making adjustments and alterations to RO after its approval by voters will be more difficult than pushing through a different ballot measure without lots of money-which appears unlikely-underlying the effort?
If RO fails November 3 Ohio can expect to wait a good three to five years at minimum for something to happen in Ohio…assuming no effort is heavily funded.
The question for the cannabis community in regard to ResponsibleOhio Issue 3 would seem to be:
Does Issue 3 offer a better alternative to Ohio’s status quo of cannabis prohibition?
As an either/or how can people-especially cannabis people-decide to accept perfect prohibition over imperfect RE-legalization???
Last edited:
TheHermit
Well-Known Member
You do make some good points. I am not sure what to make of Kasich. Sometimes he seems friendly towards cannabis, and other times he seems dead set against it. I just don't see RO being changed or altered in any way once it is implemented. I don't see them volunteering giving up a cash cow, and I doubt most voters would be ready to change the law as soon as it is implemented. One thing I do find interesting is what happens if both 2 and 3 passes. I have been researching to find out whether issue 2 would just remove the cartel part, or if it would void the bill all together, but have came up empty in my search. I guess I will find out one way or another in a few weeks.