On Chavez's speech ...

well I'm glad there's at least one other traditionalist on rollitup. The marijuana cultivating community is made of all kinds of people, and I am tired of hearing one-sided debates on social issues amongst marijuana users and growers.

P.S. can we all admit that our president is not involved in multiple conspiracies to take over the world? If you think along those lines you might as well cower in fear of zombies taking over your country.

Welcome, waywardpal.

Logical minds are always welcome here in the forum.

Yes, I've been on several pot sites and have found what you have ... an assumption that all pot smokers are Left-Wing conspiracy nut-jobs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Vi

V, you don't like name calling do you "left wing conspiracy nut jobs"? And you claim the high ground, preposterous! I thought in a "democracy", it takes people from all perpesctives to make it work. If you only had right wing radicals, wouldn't this be like a fascist state. The people on the left ("nut jobs") keep a balance to the great pendulum that swings in both directions, hopefully to find some middle ground we can both live with. Maybe you would be happier with a Monarchy, and your ilk could be a count, or a duke or some kind of royality. A Democracy embraces all extremes as long as they don't try and force their opinions on others. Radicals exert force on the pendulum, and only when "tolerance" is crushed, do we have war. So my friend, a class war would also be exascerbated by your ilk or there would be none!

Well there you go again not knowing of what you speak. A "Democracy" is the most evil form of government known to mankind. A "Democracy" is the tyrany of the majority. Here's a "Democracy" in action: Four people are sitting in a darkened room --- three men and one woman. A vote is cast to determine if the woman should be raped or not. There's your Democracy.

Contrary to popular opinion, especially believed by those on the Left, we do not live in a democracy in the U.S. We live in a Representative Republic. Majority opinions don't mean Jack here in the States. The Founders made it that way on purpose so that the majority do not oppress the minority. They stood for individule liberty, free markets and free minds ... same as me.

Vi

you are a piece of work. It doesn't do any good to try and have a conversation with you because you don't get what I'm saying. You just profess your right wing position and back it up with little diddies from here and there. My God, It must be good to be so self righteous, can you walk on water also. Now I'm beginning to see how wars get started. Bone heads with narrow minded views,(the opposite of liberal) oppose each other and then being consumate cowards, they send their young commoners off to fight and die! I guess that is your "positive" view of the world, If they don't agree with you, lets just kill them, they weren't worth living anyway! Shameful. See you can't take the heat, you run and hide in your Dogma, never sticking your head out to see the real world, Wake up! there is more to this world than your crazy politics, people are dying for others beliefs, Insanity abounds!

I bring that up all the time. If you asked 100 people on the street 95 would tell you we live in a democracy. the greeks tried that...didn't work out so well. haha. but really, who really cares who wins this one Vi? You're not going to change his mind. I've tried many times with some of my more liberal friends. I'm a very open-minded person, and consider myself a traditionalist, not a republican...as I feel that, unfortunately, the republican party is also not in the right. My point is, during most political discussions the majority of people simply point the blame at a very limited target instead of concentrating on the real issue. Let's just let him think that Bush is evil and that he intentionally makes all of the wrong decisions, effectively killing hordes of his people because he wants to steal the world's oil and take over as emperor...then eventually God. Let's just allow ourselves a little chuckle, put the issue to rest, and grow better weed...

Waywardpal ...

You are a breath of fresh air, Bro. Nice to see you posting here.

Yes, you are entirely correct about these people. Medicaluse has continually accused me of being in favor of using our young people as "cannon fodder" in the war on terror. It never occurs to him that our military is entirely voluntary. We do not have a draft. If I pointed out to him that it is the DEMOCRATS who impose military drafts, because of their belief that the citizen is subservient to the State, he would call that a wing-nut proposition. If I asked him to go back in history, from 1900 on, to see which party put us into wars, and which party has opposed those wars, he would probably say ... that's revised history. *lol*

Take care ...

Vi

No matter whom starts them Or whether it is by draft (my case) or volunteer,( I'll bet most of the volunteers didn't know that Bush was going to invade Iraq and hold them in for 3-4 tours of combat) Wars are Immoral and just plain wrong! If you haven't served in combat, Please dont preach about wars. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft,(and a few minions) these were the guys that started the Iraq war. None ever spent time in combat, some not even in the military! This is our war president, a slacker who couldn't even show up for his sissy reserve duty, Yeah war is good for the rich and powerful because they never have to participate. I'd take anyone of those warmongers on one by one, one on one, they could choose the weapons! Cowards!

"Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft,(and a few minions) these were the guys that started the Iraq war."

Well, first of all, we are not at war with Iraq. We are at war with Terrorists. Bush and Co. didn't start the War on Terrorism, the terrorists did. Saddam refused to comply with numerous UN resolutions and sanctions. According to our own intelligence and foreign intelligence, he was harboring WMD. He was paying families of terrorists a $25,000 bonus if a family member blew him/herself up in a terrorist attack ... IN OTHER COUNTRIES. We had every right to take Saddam out, especially in view of 9-11. Yeah, I know the stock answer .... "Saddam had nothing to do with 9-11." Well the facts show that Saddam had terrorist training camps in Iraq and was getting support for them from Iran and Syria.

On the voluntary military. When one joins the military, one must assume that in time of emergency, or war, one would have to do duty in a war zone. The days of the liberals using the military as a huge, expensive welfare program is over.

And by the way ... one needn't serve in the military or fight in combat in order to see what's right and what's wrong. That old bromide of "If you haven't served, you aren't qualified to speak," is nothing more than a ploy to shut down debate. Very similar to the "Nazi" and "Racist" accusations.

Why is it that Liberals continue to hide their heads in the sand? A good example is North Korea's exploding the Nuke ... a result of Clinton's failed "Peace Accord" with the North Koreans.

Vi

It's obvious that you are a stay at home "patriot".( Don't include me in your wars, just let me tell you all about them.) I know what it is like to be shot at, do you? If not then shut the fuck up about wars. There are no good ones and talk about terrorists, the U.S. govt. is the largest terrorist organization on the planet! Makes Al Queda look like like Marry Poppins! Al Queda is just a bunch of scrawny bearded imbiciles that got lucky with 911 because the Bush-Cheney regime was asleep at the wheel. Had they followed their CIAs intelligence, 911 could probably have been quashed! Geeze it must be nice to be so smart and arrogant as you! I'm probably right, to argue with you is like talking to a brick wall, the response is always predictable. Right wing garbage. why doesn't someone else respond to my allegations., someone with intelligent views, not turn card rhetoric!

.

Vii "A majority oppresses the minority" instead of The minority oppressing the majority as it now exists!

[/quote]When The minority opppresses the majority--I guess thats your Idea of freedom!

It's obvious that you are a stay at home "patriot".( Don't include me in your wars, just let me tell you all about them.) I know what it is like to be shot at, do you? If not then shut the fuck up about wars.

Ummm ... you forgot the Nazi & Racist thingie ...

Vi

No comparisson, I think you've lost it Olly!

The "Race card," the "Nazi card" and the "You didn't serve in the military card," are all the same ploy with different names. It's a ploy to stiffle debate. Ploys like that are personal attacks. Personal attacks usually come from a mind that has run out of cogent arguments. Here's your quote again:

I know what it is like to be shot at, do you? If not then shut the fuck up ...

See what I mean ... nothing but an effort to stiffle debate. Ya gotta try harder, Med.

Vi

You mean 'shut the fuck up" isn't plain enough, Well blow me down. For someone to lament the virtues of war, I say, you've no right to champion war unless you've viewed it's ravages first hand. Kinda like saying I know what a broken arm feels like wilst never experiencing one or like a man saying he knows what it's like to be pregnant. Your view is incumbent upon ideas not experiences. I say experience rules. How could you feel what a woman feels when pregnant, you couldn't. Same for war, if you haven't experienced it, dont opine on it, Is that clear enough? The only other people that should opine on wars are those against them as war is against all human virtue!

"For someone to lament the virtues of war ..."

I don't believe that I ever said that war is virtueous ... If I did, please point out the post.

War is hell ... but sometimes war is the final answer.

And yes ... I DO know what its like being shot at and I also know what returning fire is like. I also know what that eerie silence is like after one returns fire and stops to listen for the effect. You are not talking to a virgin here.

Vi

well la-ti-da I think the name calling worked, there is no changing your mind, so I'll just post what I think of your crazy ideas, and you as a person. Having never met you, this will of course be speculative, but nontheless entertaining. I'll try and refrain from obsenities, but sometimes they best describe what I feel! Thinking is not relegated to script you find on the internet, that shows what a small mind must use to postulate his lame Ideas. I am slightly ahead of my times in believing that human decency should trump politics, but nontheless I believe that. I realize that in my lifetime I'll never see that happen, but I'll post it as long as I can! Peace!

"I'll try and refrain from obsenities, but sometimes they best describe what I feel!"

Instead of posting what you "feel," how about posting what you think?

Vi

Although Chavez's speach was humorus, I think that he was a bit out of line as was Amademadjhad.

Chavez can't straiten thing out in his own country, so that puts him in a glass house, and those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

^^^^ Agreed ^^^^ Except I don't think Chavez was funny. He will have the people in his country under his thumb, controlling their every move. Not funny ... very, very sad.

Vi