opinions on chem gro 4-20-39 and other CHEAP DRY NUTES

im4satori said:

if I was you

id get the jacks pro, some calcium nitrate, and some mkp and Epsom salt
per gallon

veg full strength

2.5 grams jacks
2.5 grams calcium nitrate (green house grade yara)
0.5 grasm Epsom

transition full strength (first 2 weeks bloom)
3 grams jacks
2 grams calcium nitrate

bloom
jacks 2 grams
calcium nitrate 2 grams
mkp 0.75 grams
Epsom 0.75 grams

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What's your thought on mixing stocks. I usually make 100:1 stocks with 100oz distilled water and use 1oz/gal. But with all these mix options I feel like I wouldn't be able to use them before they turn (usually 3-4 weeks for me before I notice baddies growing in it)

firsttimeARE said:

I've been doing the 2.5g Jack's 2g calcinit and 1g Epsom per gal in veg per Dr. satori's orders.

Rdwc is exploding. Roots have almost filled up the 12gal totes. Getting some weird leaf twisting on new growth. Not sure if it's due to the 1.0EC it's at. Hard to keep up with them. I might have to bump them up to 1.4EC. been doing my usual 1.2EC.

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try something different

mix your veg like this 4:4:1 ratio

2 grams jack (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
2 grams calcium nitrate (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
0.5 grams Epsom

and set it at EC 1.4

thatll lower the K in your mix a good bit and allow for the magnesium and calcium uptake to increase

the twist might then go stop progression

you really shouldn't need a full gram of Epsom salt per gallon.....

if I see growth in my stock solution I just dump a bottle of h202 in it and skim it with a netted spoon thingy strainer

im4satori said:

try something different

mix your veg like this 4:4:1 ratio

2 grams jack (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
2 grams calcium nitrate (or slightly higher to achieve EC but in equal portion)
0.5 grams Epsom

and set it at EC 1.4

thatll lower the K in your mix a good bit and allow for the magnesium and calcium uptake to increase

the twist might then go stop progression

you really shouldn't need a full gram of Epsom salt per gallon.....

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What you told me to use was the 2.5 mix 2 calcinit and 1 epsom

firsttimeARE said:

What you told me to use was the 2.5 mix 2 calcinit and 1 epsom

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that's fine
that's the mix I use..but you said your getting leaf twist

your not over feeding so that's ruled out.... your getting more than enough magnesium

so my thought is perhaps the K is a little high... its a complete guess based on what I know about your nutrient ratios and I could be wrong

the mix puts you in the ball park and the elements are all with in parameters that are close, each individual will want to make small tweaks to accommodate there specific plant and environmental needs

someone with a room that runs real hot might do better with a wee bit more K

if your source water has calcium it in that might adjust your formula marginally

theres a balance of cations (cat- ions) between potassium, calcium and magnesium...................

who knows maybe the twist is from being to close to the lights idk..but if you feel its nute related try the alternative mix that has slightly lower K and see if it solves it

@im4satori you da man! gonna start reading the book once 2018 starts to settle down.

What book?

Not sure what is causing it. Could lack of food cause it? Only thing I changed recently was the ratios. But the two plants I have in my other room are fine and getting same ratios except they are at 1.4EC

My source water has like 16ppm Ca. And I thought this mix was close to the 4:2:1.

I'll try increasing the feed and see if it sorts it out.

rkymtnman said:

@im4satori you da man! gonna start reading the book once 2018 starts to settle down.

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ya that book is a mind full of over load lol

its nice to have a bit of calcium in the source

could be... if the others are good at 1.4 maybe that's it

sounds logical to me

but id have to look at a log of your reservoir changes to make

typically or as a rule in hydro

if the EC goes down and the ph goes up = feed more
if the EC goes up (or stays flat) and or the ph doesn't climb = feed less

if the EC drops real slow and the Ph climbs real slow = perfection

but reservoir size also has a lot to do with how fast these changes occur so you got to get a feel for your set up over time

Im still waiting till monday to hear back from hydro gardens to see if they have anything similar to the 5-11-26 ...

All that said i like how quick the company responded.
And their shipping prices are good with me

I think im going to try a couple different formulas
Hobby 10-8-22 for veg
Strawberry 8-12-32 (also for my strawberrys )
And the 4-20-39 for bloom

Plus cal nit, mag sul and mkp

I also might grab a 5 lb of the jacks to try it as well . Cause you dont know till you try

One of these will be my last nutrient for a while though after i run them

Again appreciate all the input gents

assuming the twist is nute related and not heat stress

if your EC is dropping and your PH is climbing within your reservoir than id say yes
raise the EC they want more food and thatll fix it

if your EC is not dropping and your PH is not climbing (again assuming its nute related) id have to look at the K as a potential for lock out issues

because your getting more than adequate proportions of calcium and magnesium

pH is rising 0.2 daily. I got a 42 gal rdwc for 6 plants.

Res is about 2 weeks old. Not even.

firsttimeARE said:

pH is rising 0.2 daily. I got a 42 gal rdwc for 6 plants.

Res is about 2 weeks old. Not even.

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ya so maybe EC 1.4 might sound about right

as long as your ph has got a little rise (before topping off) you can safely raise the EC

if the Ph is flat it could be perfect or slightly too much ... so I prefer to see a slight rise

that's a nice reservoir size for only 6 plants so 0.2 gives you room to raise it .... if your reservoir was half that size id say that's not too much of a rise but since your reservoir is ample its going to show the changes more slowly

Orderd the chem gro
4-20-39(for flower)
Strawberry mix 8-12-32 (for veg)

Cal nitrate
Mag sulphate
And mono potassium phosphate
Will be here soon

Cold$moke said:

Orderd the chem gro
4-20-39(for flower)
Strawberry mix 8-12-32 (for veg)

Cal nitrate
Mag sulphate
And mono potassium phosphate
Will be here soon

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just in case your don't know, but im sure you do

magnesium sulfate is the same as Epsom salt that you can by at the grocery store or pharmacy real cheap and without shipping cost


I like those

real easy the way you have it using the strawberry for veg is perfect

id mix it

veg
2 grams strawberry mix
2 grams calcium Nite

bloom
2 grams 420 mix
2 grams calcium nite

and dilute to desired EC/PPM


the mkp booster you don't really need but if you want to boost P do it during the second half of flower

id start at 0.25 grams per gallon and you can play with as much as up to 0.5 grams per gallon (which is basically the lucas formula)

as for the Epsom salt.. I didn't fugure it in to the above listed formulas

you will need it but I don't know how much mag is already in the strawberry mix or the 420 mix so I didn't list it in the recipes

if you want to verify the % amounts listed I can suggest my opinion on the amount

@im4satori thanks man, i am aware of the epsom salt being mag sulphate.

I just didnt know if the stuff at the store was the same as they use so i went with it.

Chem gro gives a decent feed chart but im sure it will need tweaking.

I will try your suggestions for sure

As far as the mpk is concerned i just got it to fill the flat rate box lol.

As the first few runs i will use just the base formulas so i can get a good feel for them

Then ill start adding the mkp in small doses .

Ive always been a feed less but you can give them more kind of guy
Instead of max ppms lol


Look forward to bouncing ideas off of you

Cold$moke said:

@im4satori thanks man, i am aware of the epsom salt being mag sulphate.

I just didnt know if the stuff at the store was the same as they use so i went with it.

Chem gro gives a decent feed chart but im sure it will need tweaking.

I will try your suggestions for sure

As far as the mpk is concerned i just got it to fill the flat rate box lol.

As the first few runs i will use just the base formulas so i can get a good feel for them

Then ill start adding the mkp in small doses .

Ive always been a feed less but you can give them more kind of guy
Instead of max ppms lol


Look forward to bouncing ideas off of you

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yes, im also a fan of not over fertilizing and typically like to stay low on EC

the amounts I gave you are likely around EC 1.3 im guessing just using the base nutes and Epsom

the Epsom salt at the grocery store is the same thing just don't buy the kind with perfumes or fragrances

I can get yara calcium nitrate at my local co-op for about $20 a bag

and that also saves me on shipping so I get the Epsom and cal nite local

Nice thanks.
Yea ive never been much for maxing out feed

Just takes longer to get rid if it at the end.

Yes im a shameful flusher.

But I like my weed to burn to a fine white ash and taste good to the end lol.