Party leaders are not strategic geniuses, they just really like moderates, new research finds

Democratic Party Leaders love moderates;

Perez endorses Cuomo over Nixon
No, they like establishment players. You want to get creeped out? Check out how many establishment Democratic candidates have military and/ or intelligence backgrounds.

What do you think they're going to do with the skills they learned and used against foreign governments? Forget about them? I rather suspect not...
 
No, they like establishment players. You want to get creeped out? Check out how many establishment Democratic candidates have military and/ or intelligence backgrounds.

What do you think they're going to do with the skills they learned and used against foreign governments? Forget about them? I rather suspect not...
:roll:
 
You said you support Steny Hoyer and the Democratic establishments decision above voters to choose which Democratic candidates to support. You said you support the DNC's decision to choose the candidate they support in smoke filled back rooms outside of voter approval, you support the undemocratic idea of super delegates...

Why don't you just admit you don't actually support democracy?
Not what I said. If you want to argue with yourself you are doing a good job.

I would rather the DCCC not have published that pamphlet about Moser and not have stepped in. In both cases, the DCCC gave their reasons for why and what they said made sense. Also fit the facts. The DCCC is openly backing candidates and explaining why. There are no back room deals getting struck. You on the other hand can't say what's so great about the Our Revolution candidates you fulminate over. Lindemann, Moser and Nixon. What's so great about them compared to their opposition? When I read up on them they don't seem so great to me.

What I have said many times is that the DCCC is following campaign contribution laws, that they are a non-governmental political committee and have every legal right to do what they are doing. If you want to change the way campaigns are financed, change the laws. I've also said that if Our Revolution's candidates were so good then they should be able to compete in all aspects of the campaign.

From what I can tell, the Lindemann and Moser were poor candidates. I am glad that they lost. Oh and they lost in open, free and fair elections.

I hope that I cleared your mistaken beliefs about me.
 
Because he hadn't faced his own hypocrisy. It's a common disease along 'Democrats' these days.
Our Revolution is in disarray. Thus far, they have mostly run against other Democrats in primaries in cherry picked liberal districts and still lose in more than half their elections,

If Progressives(tm) want to be a national force they will have to do better. Crying foul when none was committed isn't going to help.

What happened to that 1.8 million dollars Justice Democrats spent outside of campaigns? They only gave $18,000 in political contributions, spent 1.8 million on something else and have pittance left in the bank. Our Revolution is crumbling. The reason Progressives(tm) are losing is because they have poor leadership in the form of Bernie Sanders. Also corruption.
 
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You said you support Steny Hoyer and the Democratic establishments decision above voters to choose which Democratic candidates to support. You said you support the DNC's decision to choose the candidate they support in smoke filled back rooms outside of voter approval, you support the undemocratic idea of super delegates...

Why don't you just admit you don't actually support democracy?
didn't bernie plan to use those super delegates to steal the nominaion away from clinton after she got 4 million more votes?
 
didn't bernie plan to use those super delegates to steal the nominaion away from clinton after she got 4 million more votes?
Yes they did. They campaigned very hard to defeat the will of the Democratic Party's voters.

Just like they are insisting on Democratic Party candidates should forego legal campaign contributions while bitterly complaining how the DCCC isn't giving equal funding and special treatment to Progressive(tm) candidates.

"Rigging an election" to a Progressive(tm) is when they lose in a free and fair election. Fair elections are when the system is rigged for them.
 
Yes they did. They campaigned very hard to defeat the will of the Democratic Party's voters.

Just like they are insisting on Democratic Party candidates should forego legal campaign contributions while bitterly complaining how the DCCC isn't giving equal funding and special treatment to Progressive(tm) candidates.

"Rigging an election" to a Progressive(tm) is when they lose in a free and fair election. Fair elections are when the system is rigged for them.
How is the primary in New York fair when Clinton, Obama, and Perez endorsed Cuomo? (Even though Perez claimed he would remain neutral after the 2016 Democratic primary?)
 
How is the primary in New York fair when Clinton, Obama, and Perez endorsed Cuomo? (Even though Perez claimed he would remain neutral after the 2016 Democratic primary?)
Oh, so people in the private sector can't endorse a candidate?

Who is Nixon and why do you think she's so good? She hadn't even formulated a policy statement until after March. She didn't even say she was going to run. Tell me why you think she would make a better governor than Cuomo. It appears you support anybody who says they are Progressive(tm). Even Republicans.
 
Perez is chair of the DNC
Members of Congress, the President and everybody in the private sector can endorse a candidate. The Hatch act restricts the partisan political activity of employees of the government. That's it. Perez has the right to endorse whoever he wants to.

You only cry because the DNC isn't kowtowing to your insignificant movement. If he had endorsed Nixon you'd be OK with that.

"Join my team or I'll give you Trump". Fuck that.

Whatever happened to that $1.8 million that Justice Democrats spent on non-campaign activities?
 
Members of Congress, the President and everybody in the private sector can endorse a candidate. The Hatch act restricts the partisan political activity of employees of the government. That's it. Perez has the right to endorse whoever he wants to.

You only cry because the DNC isn't kowtowing to your insignificant movement. If he had endorsed Nixon you'd be OK with that.

"Join my team or I'll give you Trump". Fuck that.

Whatever happened to that $1.8 million that Justice Democrats spent on non-campaign activities?
Perez said when he took over the DNC he would remain neutral and refrain from endorsing candidates thereby appearing to choose a side. The DNC bylaws say they will remain neutral..

You're acting as if I want the DNC or the Democratic establishment to endorse or support the progressive opponent when the reality is that I just want the rules that are already established to be followed by the same people who represent the organization that created them. I want fair elections where the best ideas gain support, don't you?
 
Perez said when he took over the DNC he would remain neutral and refrain from endorsing candidates thereby appearing to choose a side. The DNC bylaws say they will remain neutral..

You're acting as if I want the DNC or the Democratic establishment to endorse or support the progressive opponent when the reality is that I just want the rules that are already established to be followed by the same people who represent the organization that created them. I want fair elections where the best ideas gain support, don't you?
OK, I smell propaganda bullshit. Or maybe another Padawanbaterism.

I'm going to check into this story about Perez and check against your words..

My prediction is what Perez said and what @Padawanbater2 says are two different things.
 
Perez didn't break DNC rules about endorsements by DNC leaders.

That said, he is doing a poor job of convincing anybody that the Democratic National Committee is a neutral office towards Democratic Party candidates. Pretty much the opposite. LOL

My question is what's so great about Nixon?

From what I've read, she would be a total novice at running any elected office much less Gov. of New York. I haven't heard anything to say she's done anything great. I have no idea why anybody would think she could be a good Governor. Is it just a handshake and not a kiss? Is Bernie's Our Revolution supporting her with an endorsement and financial help?

Getting back to Perez, what drove him to taking a side? Sounds dumb and counter to the objectives he laid out at the beginning. Maybe one can infer he's had it with crybaby Progressives(tm) when he said: Cuomo represented "the accomplishment side of the party."

LOL, we have the Progressive(tm) wing and we have the Accomplishment wing of the party.

So maybe the gloves are off. Could be that the Accomplishment wing saw how meager were the gains made by Progressive(tm) wing candidates and were no longer afraid to piss them off.

Meanwhile, Republicans laugh. Thanks Bernie.

I have no candidates in this story. I'm just going to watch and kibbitz on the sideline. This is for New York Democrats to decide and I don't think Perez's endorsement is going to affect the results one way or the other. Perez should have stayed neutral. Still, I like his jab that Progressives(tm) represent the Unaccomplished wing of the party.
 
Perez didn't break DNC rules about endorsements by DNC leaders.
We’ve got to make sure the process is fair in fact and fair in perception, so everyone feels like they got a fair shake.The vital thing is that people have confidence in the Democratic Party” and its nominating processes as “open to everyone.

Restoring and maintaining confidence in the party is a delicate task, especially with lingering mistrust among different factions. As chairman, Perez has used precise language to describe what is necessary to build that confidence. “Scrupulously neutral” was the term Perez employed just last week, when he was asked whether the national party might intervene in the Georgia primary between former legislator Stacey Abrams, a high-profile contender who had attracted significant support from progressive groups that were excited by her base-building campaign to become the country’s first African-American female governor, and former legislator Stacey Evans, who had secured endorsements from former governor Roy Barnes, former senator Max Cleland, and a number of other old-school Georgia Democrats.

On May 18, Perez said the DNC needed to maintain strict neutrality “because we think the voters should decide that.

That was then. This is now. On May 24, Perez appeared at the New York State Democratic Party convention to deliver an all-in endorsement of Governor Andrew Cuomo and his running mate, Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul. “You’ve been delivering results and you’ve been delivering results that have made people’s lives better,” declared the DNC chair. “That’s why Andrew Cuomo and Kathy Hochul are charter members of the accomplishments wing of the Democratic Party, and that’s why I’m proud to endorse them.


Article 5, Section 4: DNC Charter:

Section 4. The National Chairperson shall serve full time and shall receive such compensation as
may be determined by agreement between the Chairperson and the Democratic National Committee. In
the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee,
particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the
Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and
campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the
Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party

Presidential nominating process.

The DCCC is the organization responsible for election Congressional candidates, but the evidence has shown the leadership there has been just as selective towards establishment Democrats and against progressive challengers

That said, he is doing a poor job of convincing anybody that the Democratic National Committee is a neutral office towards Democratic Party candidates. Pretty much the opposite. LOL
Do you believe the DNC is a neutral office towards Democratic Party challengers?
My question is what's so great about Nixon?
Nixon is an actual progressive. You can tell by the way she doesn't accept legal bribes for campaign donations and how she vocally supports issues that are important to most Americans; like universal healthcare and raising the minimum wage to a living wage
Getting back to Perez, what drove him to taking a side? Sounds dumb and counter to the objectives he laid out at the beginning.
Oh you noticed that, too?
Maybe one can infer he's had it with crybaby Progressives(tm) when he said: Cuomo represented "the accomplishment side of the party."
Establishment Democrats have lost more than 1,000 elections, 69 of 99 state legislatures, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court since 2009 using the political tactic you support of running to the center and being Republican light

You have failed. Your experiment has been run its course. Populist left progressives bring out voters and Justice Democrats and Our Revolution have won more than 40% of their elections so far. Both organizations are less than 2 years old, this is unprecedented.

Swearengin in WV earned 10% more of the vote than the previous Democratic challenger who ran to the right of Manchin while spending significantly less on her campaign. How do you explain that?

Many candidates have out raised through small dollar donations from grass roots organizing more than their incumbent establishment counterparts. There was a time not too long ago when your ilk claimed funding was the key to winning elections. Now, when we out fund you, the goalposts are moved.


You're not progressive, you're moderate. You support moderate (conservative) corrupt Democratic politicians

I have no candidates in this story.
You have establishment Democratic candidates, like Crowley in NY and Feinstein in CA. Were they to lose, your entire political analysis for the past 2 years would be proven wrong. That's why you support conservative Democrats; your ego.
 
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I'm progressive.

You're not progressive.

I'm progressive!

Nuh Uh, I'm the progressive.

No, you're not progressive, I'm the progressive.

No, you're less progressive than I.

Nuh uh, I'm more progressive than you.


SMH and :roll:


:mrgreen:
 
We’ve got to make sure the process is fair in fact and fair in perception, so everyone feels like they got a fair shake.The vital thing is that people have confidence in the Democratic Party” and its nominating processes as “open to everyone.

Restoring and maintaining confidence in the party is a delicate task, especially with lingering mistrust among different factions. As chairman, Perez has used precise language to describe what is necessary to build that confidence. “Scrupulously neutral” was the term Perez employed just last week, when he was asked whether the national party might intervene in the Georgia primary between former legislator Stacey Abrams, a high-profile contender who had attracted significant support from progressive groups that were excited by her base-building campaign to become the country’s first African-American female governor, and former legislator Stacey Evans, who had secured endorsements from former governor Roy Barnes, former senator Max Cleland, and a number of other old-school Georgia Democrats.

On May 18, Perez said the DNC needed to maintain strict neutrality “because we think the voters should decide that.

That was then. This is now. On May 24, Perez appeared at the New York State Democratic Party convention to deliver an all-in endorsement of Governor Andrew Cuomo and his running mate, Lieutenant Governor Kathy Hochul. “You’ve been delivering results and you’ve been delivering results that have made people’s lives better,” declared the DNC chair. “That’s why Andrew Cuomo and Kathy Hochul are charter members of the accomplishments wing of the Democratic Party, and that’s why I’m proud to endorse them.


Article 5, Section 4: DNC Charter:

Section 4. The National Chairperson shall serve full time and shall receive such compensation as
may be determined by agreement between the Chairperson and the Democratic National Committee. In
the conduct and management of the affairs and procedures of the Democratic National Committee,
particularly as they apply to the preparation and conduct of the Presidential nomination process, the
Chairperson shall exercise impartiality and evenhandedness as between the Presidential candidates and
campaigns. The Chairperson shall be responsible for ensuring that the national officers and staff of the
Democratic National Committee maintain impartiality and evenhandedness during the Democratic Party

Presidential nominating process.

The DCCC is the organization responsible for election Congressional candidates, but the evidence has shown the leadership there has been just as selective towards establishment Democrats and against progressive challengers


Do you believe the DNC is a neutral office towards Democratic Party challengers?

Nixon is an actual progressive. You can tell by the way she doesn't accept legal bribes for campaign donations and how she vocally supports issues that are important to most Americans; like universal healthcare and raising the minimum wage to a living wage

Oh you noticed that, too?

Establishment Democrats have lost more than 1,000 elections, 69 of 99 state legislatures, the House, the Senate, and the Supreme Court since 2009 using the political tactic you support of running to the center and being Republican light

You have failed. Your experiment has been run its course. Populist left progressives bring out voters and Justice Democrats and Our Revolution have won more than 40% of their elections so far. Both organizations are less than 2 years old, this is unprecedented.

Swearengin in WV earned 10% more of the vote than the previous Democratic challenger who ran to the right of Manchin while spending significantly less on her campaign. How do you explain that?

Many candidates have out raised through small dollar donations from grass roots organizing more than their incumbent establishment counterparts. There was a time not too long ago when your ilk claimed funding was the key to winning elections. Now, when we out fund you, the goalposts are moved.


You're not progressive, you're moderate. You support moderate (conservative) corrupt Democratic politicians


You have establishment Democratic candidates, like Crowley in NY and Feinstein in CA. Were they to lose, your entire political analysis for the past 2 years would be proven wrong. That's why you support conservative Democrats; your ego.
Soooo, what about that 1.8 million Justice Democrats spent on non-campaign activities?

In their charter it says DNC officers can openly support incumbents*. I'll say again, I wish he hadn't. He didn't break the rules but I absolutely agree that he is obviously NOT staying neutral over Nixon.

What office has Nixon ever held? What would make the people of New York willing to trust that she could do a good job? Is she just running on a national Progressive(tm) platform or is she specific about local issues for the people of New York? I haven't read anything that says she has any idea other than what Bernie says.

Supporting Bernie's unfinished, unfunded, poorly planned out healthcare bill is a liability in most places in the US. Maybe some parts of New York it will go over. If not there then you can be sure it won't play well in Nevada, probably not there anyway. So, if Nixon loses will you stfu about how the only health care plan to campaign on is Bernie's? Shoring up the ACA is a policy that is doing well in ALL parts of the country and is one Democrats can ride into the House in the fall, not Bernie's unfunded poor plan.

Stabenow lost by a whopping large margin.

Getting back to Perez. I don't like that he crossed himself over being neutral. He's definitely taking a stance against your Progressive(tm) movement. A quick skim through your diatribe shows why. While I wish he had stayed neutral, I can see why the Accomplishment Wing of the Democratic party is distancing itself from you whiners. Your movement's voice is insignificant, idiotic and turns people off.

Give it time. The issues you so fervently support are winners over the long haul. The problem with your "all or nothing" and acrimonious, accusatory Progressive(tm) movement is that most of the country is conservative and not yet ready for all of it now.

*https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ils-liberal-activists/?utm_term=.7c5b30991da2
 
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Soooo, what about that 1.8 million Justice Democrats spent on non-campaign activities?
Evidence
In their charter it says DNC officers can openly support incumbents*. I'll say again, I wish he hadn't. He didn't break the rules but I absolutely agree that he is obviously NOT staying neutral over Nixon.
You oppose Perez' impartiality, but the DNC charter explicitly supports it. So how does that, if at all, change your opinion of the DNC? Of Perez as head of the DNC?

If I opposed Perez' impartiality, like you're claiming you do, assuming you oppose it because it exposes the impartiality within Democratic leadership, as Perez is head of the DNC; a pretty powerful position, I wouldn't support Perez as head of the DNC..

Yet you still do. So I have to ask you, if you disagree with the way Perez is handling the DNC, and oppose his actions in NY when he endorsed Cuomo and violated the DNCs own bylaws that say he's supposed to remain neutral (even though it's technically legal and encouraged by the Democratic establishment to endorse the Democratic incumbent, put there by the Democratic establishment)?

I'm at a loss for your reasons to support him in light of your claim to actually be progressive and support actual progressive political policy? So could you fill me in on that? What progressive legislation or laws is Cuomo actually responsible for that you support during his tenure as Gov. of NY? What policies is he proposing that you believe to be better than Nixon's?

What office has Nixon ever held? What would make the people of New York willing to trust that she could do a good job? Is she just running on a national Progressive(tm) platform or is she specific about local issues for the people of New York? I haven't read anything that says she has any idea other than what Bernie says.
She's never held a political office. Nixon got involved in politics because of the inadequacies she felt of Gov. Cuomo and she believes she can do better. What would make the people of New York willing to trust that she could do a good job? Probably her enthusiasm about her actual progressive political platform. The people of New York, according to every opinion poll you oppose, shows they support universal healthcare, criminal justice reform, stability and safety within the subway system, income inequality, campaign finance reform, the takeover of the NY legislature by the SIDC, etc.
Supporting Bernie's unfinished, unfunded, poorly planned out healthcare bill is a liability in most places in the US.
Are you disagreeing with the language of Sanders bill, the idea of universal healthcare coverage for all Americans, or both?
So, if Nixon loses will you stfu about how the only health care plan to campaign on is Bernie's?
Of course not, because if Nixon loses, which she well might do, she probably will given how much power and establishment support Cuomo has, it won't be because she supported a system of universal healthcare. It will be because of the amount of money Andrew Cuomo and friends spent on his campaign. Most progressive support a system of universal healthcare, there are a lot of progressives who live in NY..
Shoring up the ACA is a policy that is doing well in ALL parts of the country=
The TEA party responded in 2010 to the ACA by winning majorities in Congress. Republicans currently control every branch of government and have already eliminated the individual mandate. You say the only votes that count are during elections, so if the ACA is a policy that's doing well in ALL parts of the country, why did voters vote in Republicans who oppose it?[/QUOTE]
 
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