Please help! S-O-S

Aussieaceae said:

Great direction to head for now. Sounds like a great base to start with.

After your next grow using happy frog would probably be the ideal time to start your own soil. If you don't go overboard on fertilizer, the spent happy frog would make a great filler.
Might be as simple as adding some good quality compost, rich organic matter like composted manure, blood and bone, castings, fluffy material like coir and some extra aeration like perlite, plus some horticultural sand and dolomite lime.
Should be everything you need there to sufficiently amend it with after the first run. Widely available and affordable too.

Cost and sustainability are the most important thing to consider using soil imo. If it's costing a lot to get it, having to be transported for miles, or is worse for the environment than what's locally available, there really isn't a lot of point in supersoil. Besides the plant's own benefit.

Simpler, easier and likely cheaper to just buy more happy frog and perlite.

Good luck and have a good 1.

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Thank you!

Mrs. Weedstein said:

Cover crops are great for outdoor crops where they have time to break down from year to year, making the nitrogen available. However, those cover crops aren’t going to have time to break down before this plant would be ready to harvest. In other words, the cover crop isn’t making any nitrogen available to your plant while consuming phosphorous and potassium.

I don’t want to sound like I am trashing cover crops because they are excellent if you’re growing in the ground outdoors — I use them myself. However, planting clover beneath your cannabis in an indoor system can only be detrimental.

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Thanks yeah that makes sense.

Aussieaceae said:

Definitely agree with you there. I never use either to be honest. Or perlite for that matter. But it does need some added browns and coir is easily sourced. I assume that's the only reason it's in all these supersoil recipes.
Container gardening I can definitely see perlite and coirs importance. I just don't often use it.

Best aeration for soil is composted brown materials. Simply the best. Gives soil it's fluffiness.
Recommended carbon to nitrogen for composting is about 30 - 1. Worm farms too.
Domestically at least, i think growers don't add nearly enough brown materials and end up with heavy, unhealthy composts.

I really like sugarcane mulch. Isn't the cheapest product for me to purchase, but the sugarcane industry is huge here. Breaks down nice and fast, stays fairly loose even after wet, doesn't leach crap or rob nitrogen and microbes love it.
Pretty sure there's a lot of sugar in it still too. There's always ants on it after a rain lol.

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I'm confused. What are you calling browns. Are you meaning anything that's brown?

Coir is not in all super soils. Maybe some, but most recommend peat moss instead. I don't have any coco coir in my no-till soil. Peat has a higher CEC and won't lock up certain nutrients.

I also use pumice and lava rock instead of perlite because perlite will break down. Oh, and there's some rice hulls in my mix too for aeration.

PadawanWarrior said:

I'm confused. What are you calling browns. Are you meaning anything that's brown?

Coir is not in all super soils. Maybe some, but most recommend peat moss instead. I don't have any coco coir in my no-till soil. Peat has a higher CEC and won't lock up certain nutrients.

Peat vs Coco Coir

This can be a hotly debated topic among growers as to what's the best media for growing plants. In this article, I'll weigh in with my opinion on the subject as there are Pros and Cons to both.

www.kisorganics.com

I also use pumice and lava rock instead of perlite because perlite will break down. Oh, and there's some rice hulls in my mix too for aeration.

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How long does it take perlite to breakdown?

Mrs. Weedstein said:

In the long run I think a good source of carbon but it would take too long to break down in the short term.

I like to think of decomposition as a “chew test.” Imagine chewing up a corn husk — that’s going to require quite a bit of jaw muscle and time (energy).

Compare to something like dried up maple leaves — not very hard to break down at all.

Indoor, though, I’d be nervous about getting too creative with this kind of stuff.

Outdoors you’re buffered with mineral-rich clay, established soil-borne microbes and long-decaying organic material.

Indoor, it’s like a science experiment with creating new soil, rather than just amending it.

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Thanks... this makes sense. I used to roll my stalks into bales for the cattle. If done rite they will keep a couple years under rite conditions. Hay on the other hand, a year at best.

Mrs. Weedstein said:

Great advice, but I’d like to add the caveat that folks should be careful with composted materials from outside their own yard. There have been cases of yard clippings and leaves treated with chemicals that proved toxic in the finished compost. The only way to avoid this for sure is to rely on your own yard debris.

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Totally agree with you. Very well said.

Gorillabilly said:

What about corn husk mulch??

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Haven't seen it here. Same as stuff like peanut husk i guess?

If i absolutely need something i can't already find at home, then i'll buy it from my local hardware or ag. If it isn't produced here as an industry biproduct I won't buy it.
Hate the fact i have to resort to it sometimes. The industries they come from are far from perfect. But it is what it is.

Same with manure and compost. Between myself, a few chickens and a worm bin, there just isn't enough manure, or the scrap to create it.
Local landscape supplies has mushroom compost and manure all good to go, cheap as chips.
It's just too convenient.

Still have my gripes. Modern agriculture being one of them. There's also always a part of me that dies opening a plastic packet for the garden. Lol even just a bag of lime or something. Just never feels right.

Yadam said:

How long does it take perlite to breakdown?

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Well it depends how big it is. Finer pieces will turn to dust sooner than large pieces. But I don't use it anymore since I'm doing no-till. There's nothing wrong with perlite, but it will break down, pumice and lava rock will not.

If you are remixing your soil after each round and adding more perlite each time fine. I just am trying the lazy way. I don't want to have to remix my soil every time. I like to just pop a new plant in the old pot and be done. I'm not a fan of doing much transplanting.

PadawanWarrior said:

I'm confused. What are you calling browns. Are you meaning anything that's brown?

Coir is not in all super soils. Maybe some, but most recommend peat moss instead. I don't have any coco coir in my no-till soil. Peat has a higher CEC and won't lock up certain nutrients.

Peat vs Coco Coir

This can be a hotly debated topic among growers as to what's the best media for growing plants. In this article, I'll weigh in with my opinion on the subject as there are Pros and Cons to both.

www.kisorganics.com

I also use pumice and lava rock instead of perlite because perlite will break down. Oh, and there's some rice hulls in my mix too for aeration.

Click to expand...

I like the idea of pumice and lava rock, since they don’t break down like perlite. I may need to try that out in my outdoor grow. Any recommendations as to the size of the particles? When I envision lava rock, I envision big ass chunks. When I envision pumice, I envision a big rectangular thing my wife scrubs her feet with. LOL. Where do you get that stuff in bulk and the appropriate size?

Mrs. Weedstein said:

I like the idea of pumice and lava rock, since they don’t break down like perlite. I may need to try that out in my outdoor grow. Any recommendations as to the size of the particles? When I envision lava rock, I envision big ass chunks. When I envision pumice, I envision a big rectangular thing my wife scrubs her feet with. LOL. Where do you get that stuff in bulk and the appropriate size?

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I ordered my stuff from Build a Soil, but it wasn't cheap since the stuff is heavy. I ordered both sizes of pumice and the small black lava rock. Then I ordered some rice hulls from my hydro shop and when I went to pick them up I saw that they were from BAS. Well I was happy. It turns out they can order stuff from them and give me a discount. I still usually order straight from BAS though.

The best I can do is give you a link for $5 off, lol.

PadawanWarrior said:

I'm confused. What are you calling browns. Are you meaning anything that's brown?

Coir is not in all super soils. Maybe some, but most recommend peat moss instead. I don't have any coco coir in my no-till soil. Peat has a higher CEC and won't lock up certain nutrients.

Peat vs Coco Coir

This can be a hotly debated topic among growers as to what's the best media for growing plants. In this article, I'll weigh in with my opinion on the subject as there are Pros and Cons to both.

www.kisorganics.com

I also use pumice and lava rock instead of perlite because perlite will break down. Oh, and there's some rice hulls in my mix too for aeration.

Click to expand...

Brown organic matter. As opposed to green. Green grass / dead dry brown grass kind of thing.
Typically contains a lot of carbon and is low in nitrogen. It provides structure to the soil, aeration and fertility.
I'd probably generalize it as dead, dry plant material. (at least in the gardener's world)

Most of the time green organic material is any fresh materials. High in nitrogen and rich in organic life.
Generally green material needs to be composted. But again there are exceptions. Comfrey mulch is one i can think of.
Also anything with high fertility like composted manure, you'd still consider to be green.

Composts that don't get enough browns take a lot longer to break down, encourage anaerobic activity and end up being heavy and silty.
Brown mulch is my go to for mj and my worm bin. Sugarcane mulch works really well for myself, so that's why i use it.

Don't get me wrong either. Parent material of mulch is still important. Large wood chips are probably the worst. Especially if it's still a bit green. (again it still has it's own useful purpose)

Bit off topic. But i was listening to a radio interview, about this new way of dealing with a human body. As opposed to conventional means like cremation / burial.
They stick your corpse in a giant compost tumbler full of mulch and compost you, bones and all in a matter of weeks. Then offer family the soil. Without all that carbon from the mulch, that process just wouldn't happen the same way. Let alone composting the bones too.

Composting is an amazing process, so fascinating really...
Little morbid way of explaining it, though it's the honest truth.

Edit: also i hear you about coir and agree. I think in general it's shit. Coir is often full of sea salt, besides it's cec. And peat moss is full of sulphur. Also shit if you don't need it and has a much higher WHC than coir. But far out is bad when too dry.

PadawanWarrior said:

I ordered my stuff from Build a Soil, but it wasn't cheap since the stuff is heavy. I ordered both sizes of pumice and the small black lava rock. Then I ordered some rice hulls from my hydro shop and when I went to pick them up I saw that they were from BAS. Well I was happy. It turns out they can order stuff from them and give me a discount. I still usually order straight from BAS though.

The best I can do is give you a link for $5 off, lol.

BuildASoil: Organic Living Soil, Fertilizers, and Soil Amendments

Everything you need to grow no-till with organic living soil. Our mission is to support organic gardeners and to provide the best products and information on how to use them. We carry pre mixed super soil, living soil, organic soil fertilizers, organic water soluble nutrients, soil minerals...

i.refs.cc

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Thanks bro

Aussieaceae said:

Brown organic matter. As opposed to green. Green grass / dead dry brown grass kind of thing.
Typically contains a lot of carbon and is low in nitrogen. It provides structure to the soil, aeration and fertility.
I'd probably generalize it as dead, dry plant material. (at least in the gardener's world)

Most of the time green organic material is any fresh materials. High in nitrogen and rich in organic life.
Generally green material needs to be composted. But again there are exceptions. Comfrey mulch is one i can think of.
Also anything with high fertility like composted manure, you'd still consider to be green.

Composts that don't get enough browns take a lot longer to break down, encourage anaerobic activity and end up being heavy and silty.
Brown mulch is my go to for mj and my worm bin. Sugarcane mulch works really well for myself, so that's why i use it.

Don't get me wrong either. Parent material of mulch is still important. Large wood chips are probably the worst. Especially if it's still a bit green. (again it still has it's own useful purpose)

Bit off topic. But i was listening to a radio interview, about this new way of dealing with a human body. As opposed to conventional means like cremation / burial.
They stick your corpse in a giant compost tumbler full of mulch and compost you, bones and all in a matter of weeks. Then offer family the soil. Without all that carbon from the mulch, that process just wouldn't happen the same way. Let alone composting the bones too.

Composting is an amazing process, so fascinating really...
Little morbid way of explaining it, though it's the honest truth.

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They will have to grind my bones into bone meal first to start with. They also don't just stick you whole in some tumbler with some mulch and compost and turn you into soil in a matter of weeks, lol.

Are all you Aussie's this hilarious?

PadawanWarrior said:

They will have to grind my bones into bone meal first to start with. They also don't just stick you whole in some tumbler with some mulch and compost and turn you into soil in a matter of weeks, lol.

Are all you Aussie's this hilarious?

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LOL better believe it!

Alright, alright maybe they make you a bit smaller first!

But fark, same shit.

Telling you man, it's only a matter of weeks and you're soil. I want it done with mine...eventually lol.

It's actually being marketed as a greener way of dealing with the dead. Less impact on the environment.

Here's a little I could find about it.
Won't derail any further OP. Was a little out of context.

Cheers to everyone and have a good day.

Aussieaceae said:

Alright, alright maybe they make you a bit smaller first!

But fark, same shit.

Telling you man, it's only a matter of weeks and you're soil. I want it done with mine...eventually lol.

It's actually being marketed as a greener way of dealing with the dead. Less impact on the environment.

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Actually it's a matter of hours until you turn to ash. Then you are added to a some soil pod which will take even longer to decompose you the rest of the way by the microbes and shit. So basically you still become worm food, lol.

PadawanWarrior said:

Actually it's a matter of hours until you turn to ash. Then you are added to a some soil pod which will take even longer to decompose you the rest of the way by the microbes and shit. So basically you still become worm food, lol.

The biodegradable burial pod that turns your body into a tree | CNN

A greener alternative to coffins, Capsula Mundi is an egg-shaped pod that feeds a tree planted above it as it breaks down.

www.cnn.com

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Different. No cremation required.

Did you write any notes when you mix your soil I been there lost my plants because I was TO LAZY I started writing everything down if you don’t this happens and you have no clue what’s the problem

Aussieaceae said:

Here's a little I could find about it.

Would you be prepared to be turned into compost when you die?

An increasing numbers of deaths have created a boom in demand for burial plots and cemeteries are fast running out of space. But there could be a new solution, writes Emma Sheppard-Simms.

www.google.com

Won't derail any further OP. Was a little out of context.

Cheers to everyone and have a good day.

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There's no way in hell a whole human bone is gonna decompose in a few weeks no matter how active the biology is in the soil. It's a cool idea though.

PadawanWarrior said:

There's no way in hell a whole human bone is gonna decompose in a few weeks no matter how active the biology is in the soil. It's a cool idea though.

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It's actually true, believe it or not. Composting is amazing, honestly.
Laughed my arse off a while back here on RIU in the organic section. A grower fully composted a dead woodchuck in his heap.

Bone is nothing if there's enough carbon and rich organic matter for the microbes. About 30 - 1 carbon / nitrogen and you're away.

Anyway peace, have a good day. I'll check in again tomorrow.