Senators ask Obama for legal basis for targeted killings of Americans

Should the president/king be allowed to kill/detain american citizens without trial

  • Yes, Presidents should be judge, jury, and execut as decided behind closed doors.

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Kind of, As long as it is Obama I trust his decision, not sure about future presidents/kings.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, I do not trust Obama but maybe if we get a republican president/king.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, because the bill of rights and consitution.

    Votes: 19 95.0%
  • No, except in "special" circumstances and I trust them to decide what those are on the fly

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    20

deprave

New Member
king-obama.jpg


Should Obama or any president in the future be allowed to kill American citizens without trial and/or detain them indefinitely?

politico said:
A bipartisan group of 11 senators is appealing directly to President Barack Obama to give lawmakers his administration's legal justification for using armed drones or other counterterrorism operations to kill American citizens.
politico said:
The eight Democrats and three Republicans are also making a not-so-veiled threat that the nominations of officials like CIA director-designate John Brennan and perhaps even Defense Secretary-designate Chuck Hagel could be held up if Obama doesn't fork over the classified memos.

"We ask that you direct the Justice Department to provide Congress, specifically the Judiciary and Intelligence Committees, with any and all legal opinions that lay out the executive branch's official understanding of the President's authority to deliberately kill American citizens," the 11 senators wrote in a letter sent to Obama Monday (and posted here). "The executive branch's cooperation on this matter will help avoid an unnecessary confrontation that could affect the Senate's consideration of nominees for national security positions."

The senators' missive notes that in a May 2009 speech, Obama seemed to endorse the idea that Congress should be permitted to get such information even if the public is denied it.​
"Whenever we cannot release certain information to the public for valid national security reasons, I will insist that there is oversight of my actions—by Congress or the courts," Obama said in remarks at the National Archives.

The Justice Department and other government agencies have rebuffed lawmakers' prior requests for such opinions. Last month, a federal judge in New York rejected Freedom of Information Act lawsuits the New York Times and the American Civil Liberties Union brought trying to force disclosure of the same legal memoranda.​
The Obama Administration has also argued strenuously against any role for the courts in overseeing the use of lethal force against Americans, even though wiretapping U.S. nationals anywhere in the world requires some authorization from the judiciary branch.​
White House spokesmen had no immediate reply to a request for comment on the letter, which was signed by Sens. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), Mike Lee (R-Utah), Mark Udall (D-Colo.), Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Mark Begich (D-Alaska) and Al Franken (D- Minn.)​
Wyden signaled a few weeks ago, in another letter, that he intends to make the legal issues surrounding the use of lethal force against Americans a central issue at Brennan's confirmation hearing. That hearing is now set for Thursday afternoon.

In September 2011, a drone strike in Yemen killed Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula leader Anwar Al-Awlaki, who was a U.S. citizen. The strike was reportedly carried out by the U.S. Other Americans, including Al-Awlaki's teenage son, have reportedly been killed in drone attacks executed by the U.S. However, the Americans killed in those strikes are believed to have been collateral casualties and not the intended targets.


RT said:
predator-mq-1.n.jpg

MQ-1 Predator (AFP Photo / US Airforce / Julianne Showalter)​
US senators have requested the legal justification for the killings of US citizens suspected of terrorism by the Obama administration. Meanwhile a ‘chilling’ leaked memo showed that the government sees little need for constraint on the issue.

A group of 11 senators on Monday wrote a letter to President Barack Obama, asking him to release all Justice Department memos on the practice of targeting US citizens suspected of being terrorist leaders with lethal force, particularly drone airstrikes. The request comes as the administration seeks Senate approval for John Brennan, Obama's nomination for CIA chief.
"As the Senate considers a number of nominees for senior national security positions, we ask that you ensure that Congress is provided with the secret legal opinions outlining your authority to authorize the killing of Americans in the course of counterterrorism operations," the letter's opening paragraph reads.

Brennan, who is deputy national security advisor to the president, is to face questioning from the Senate Intelligence Committee on February 7. As the Obama administration carries on many of the Bush-era policies that exist in something of a legal gray area, lawmakers want to be sure they have all the information possible in order to "avoid an unnecessary confrontation that could affect the Senate's consideration of nominees for national security positions."


And in case the White House attempts to block the release of the documents by appealing to some legal "privilege," the legislators continue, "We would encourage you to simply waive whatever privilege might apply, if you would like to make it clear that you are not setting a precedent that applies to other categories of documents."

The legislators are not alone in their desire to see the secret justification for targeted killing of Americans by the US administration. The New York Times and the ACLU have filed a lawsuit seeking access to the Justice Department memos on the issue under the Freedom of Information Act.

Previously a number of US officials, including Brannon, Attorney General Eric Holder and others, have argued in public speeches in favor of drone killings of Americans who pose an imminent threat to the country. But apparently in practice the administration has a broader view on what constitutes the imminence of a threat.

NBC News published on Tuesday a copy of a 16-page memo detailing legal reasoning of the killings, which was provided to members of the Senate Intelligence and Judiciary committees in June on condition that it would not be discussed publicly.

The white paper argues that the US is operating lawfully in kill “senior operational leaders of Al-Qaeda or an associated force” even if a person happens to be a US citizen and is not known to be planning an attack on America.

“The condition that an operational leader present an ‘imminent’ threat of violent attack against the United States does not require the United States to have clear evidence that a specific attack on US persons and interests will take place in the immediate future,” the memo states.

It is sufficient that an “informed, high-level” official of the US government determines that the target of the killing has been “recently” involved in “activities” posing a threat of a violent attack and “there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities” the document says. It gives no definitions of “recently” or “activities”.


Jameel Jaffer, deputy legal director of the ACLU, called the white paper “a chilling document” that “redefines the word imminence in a way that deprives the word of its ordinary meaning.”

“Basically, it argues that the government has the right to carry out the extrajudicial killing of an American citizen.

It recognizes some limits on the authority it sets out, but the limits are elastic and vaguely defined, and it’s easy to see how they could be manipulated,”
he told NBC News.

Obama had attempted to nominate Brennan for the post in 2009, at the start of his first term, but Brennan withdrew his name from consideration after facing claims that he supported former President George W. Bush’s torture program. Brennan was described as a “supporter of the ‘dark side’ policies,” with critics claiming his appointment “would dishearten and alienate those who opposed torture under the Bush administration,” read a letter sent to Obama in 2008.​
 
Power corrupts, cut his nuts off. Fucking Obama hasn't learned yet. This war on terror is only making things worse. Fucking feds suck ass. Power hungry bastards. We need a multiple party system, this way we can get rid of the smell in WA, DC. Both parties stink and they both suck each others cocks. Sorry but I tried to clean it up now I gotta smoke weed in the morning as I'm pissed again.
 
another damned poll with only responses being "im an ignorant retarded fearful asshole" or "I agree entirely with the OP"

wheres my other option:

"if they are avowed members of an organization that declared war on the US, and are hiding in a lawless region of the world where even "Extraordinary Rendition" is unlikely to succeed, fuck it, blow em up. "

as much as i distrust obama and despise nearly every one of his policies, he has NOT gone on a rampage of killing american dissidents.
so far there have been 2 us citizen drone casualties, and both were admitted and unashamed members of "al quaeda in the arabian peninsula", and both were admitted plotters and treasonous twats. even the "poor young lad of only 17"

These two twats earned their missiles by their own actions, so i got no "give a shit" for them.
 
Power corrupts, cut his nuts off. Fucking Obama hasn't learned yet. This war on terror is only making things worse. Fucking feds suck ass. Power hungry bastards. We need a multiple party system, this way we can get rid of the smell in WA, DC. Both parties stink and they both suck each others cocks. Sorry but I tried to clean it up now I gotta smoke weed in the morning as I'm pissed again.

you shouldnt hold in your feelings like that bro.
 
he will do what he wants anyways because he has the unwashed and uneducated on his side and unfortunately the idiots that follow him are gullible and susceptible to his powers of persuasion.
 
another damned poll with only responses being "im an ignorant retarded fearful asshole" or "I agree entirely with the OP"

wheres my other option:

"if they are avowed members of an organization that declared war on the US, and are hiding in a lawless region of the world where even "Extraordinary Rendition" is unlikely to succeed, fuck it, blow em up. "

as much as i distrust obama and despise nearly every one of his policies, he has NOT gone on a rampage of killing american dissidents.
so far there have been 2 us citizen drone casualties, and both were admitted and unashamed members of "al quaeda in the arabian peninsula", and both were admitted plotters and treasonous twats. even the "poor young lad of only 17"

These two twats earned their missiles by their own actions, so i got no "give a shit" for them.

American citizens are awarded due process under the US Constitution, terrorist or not and the executive branch doesn't... shouldn't, have the power to breach that under any circumstances imo
 
American citizens are awarded due process under the US Constitution, terrorist or not and the executive branch doesn't... shouldn't, have the power to breach that under any circumstances imo

if you run off to join the opposition force in a SHOOTING WAR you should expect to get SHOT. the constitution doesnt even protect armed felons robbing banks from the bullets of the cops, why should the constitution they rejected offer them a magic sheild in YEMEN?

they picked their sides, went to the war zone to fight against a third nation's govt, and agitated over the interweb for more american moslems to join the herd and blow shit up here at home.

they made their choices, and threw away the thing that most of the rest of the world would LOVE to have, american citizenship.

they chose to live the life of a yemeni bandito, and yemeni banditos get blowed up when they get spotted by a drone.

still no fucks given here.
 
Imagine if Nixon had granted himself those powers. Weather underground, black panthers and anyone else who was against Vietman in a very loud destructive way. In other words, the same people who have or are advising Obama would have been droned by Nixon. I'm not a fan.
 
Tough call.

On the one hand I don't like the idea of a potus having unilateral authority to be whacking American citizens, but on the other hand if you decide to take up arms against American soldiers/civilians then all bets are off and I would have no qualms with that person getting dusted.
 
he will do what he wants anyways because he has the unwashed and uneducated on his side and unfortunately the idiots that follow him are gullible and susceptible to his powers of persuasion.

I suppose Skeeter in Kentucky that voted for Bush twice has several diplomas hanging on his wall .... right?
 
Imagine if Nixon had granted himself those powers. Weather underground, black panthers and anyone else who was against Vietman in a very loud destructive way. In other words, the same people who have or are advising Obama would have been droned by Nixon. I'm not a fan.

funny you should mention the black panthers... http://libcom.org/library/move-bombing-1985

and of course waco, ruby ridge, bear island etc etc etc.

the gubmint has no dearth of willingness to kill anyone they feel is a "danger" with no regard to the niceties of the constitution, but if they paint the victims a "dangerous child molesting meth cooking doomsday cultists" it's a lot easier to get away with the shit.

as long as they dont go to the lawless and brutal excfesses of the clinton administration BHO is actually doing better than expected.

he still sucks, but he is not as dangerous as clinton.

nixon. nixon. nixon.
nixon was only "a little shady" when compared to obama, and the clinton regime was america's own Papa Doc Duvalier experience.
 
I agree with Mr. Kynes. If you want to oppose the united states then you deserve a missile up your ass. Why should we have to go and capture an american citizen hanging out in some desert with a bunch of terrorist just so he could have a fair trial. Just because he isn't showing imminent danger on the USA, doesn't mean they aren't discussing how to blow up something. I know they aren't talking about puppy dogs and hummingbirds. What if this guy is hanging out in a house with some top terrorist, should we not blow up the house cause some american citizen who decided to turn on america is in there. In my opinion he gave up his right to a fair trial once he went to the other side.

Peace
Salt
 
I agree with Mr. Kynes. If you want to oppose the united states then you deserve a missile up your ass. Why should we have to go and capture an american citizen hanging out in some desert with a bunch of terrorist just so he could have a fair trial. Just because he isn't showing imminent danger on the USA, doesn't mean they aren't discussing how to blow up something. I know they aren't talking about puppy dogs and hummingbirds. What if this guy is hanging out in a house with some top terrorist, should we not blow up the house cause some american citizen who decided to turn on america is in there. In my opinion he gave up his right to a fair trial once he went to the other side.

Peace
Salt

see im not even gonna go that far bro, if catching the fucker becomes an option, by all means his ass should be nabbed, and he should be tried as a TRAITOR with the penalty prescribed in the constitution for TREASON.

but if catching the fucker proves difficult cuz he's hanging out in downtown tehran, rocking his smooth headsquare in some yemeni shithole, or chilling in the mountains of pakistan's "tribal region". boom goes the dynamite!
 
We are not at war with Yemen but dropping bombs on their soil is good way to start one. I just don't think we would put up with other countries pulling the same shit here that we do there. Lucky for us though, we don't have to put up with it here and they have no choice. We have the coolest toys.
 
Why are people so scared of dirt poor people, "talking shit" on the other side of the earth? How does that cancel out their right to a trial? Why don't we bomb drug dealers friends and mafia associates?
 
another damned poll with only responses being "im an ignorant retarded fearful asshole" or "I agree entirely with the OP"

wheres my other option:

"if they are avowed members of an organization that declared war on the US, and are hiding in a lawless region of the world where even "Extraordinary Rendition" is unlikely to succeed, fuck it, blow em up. "

as much as i distrust obama and despise nearly every one of his policies, he has NOT gone on a rampage of killing american dissidents.
so far there have been 2 us citizen drone casualties, and both were admitted and unashamed members of "al quaeda in the arabian peninsula", and both were admitted plotters and treasonous twats. even the "poor young lad of only 17"

These two twats earned their missiles by their own actions, so i got no "give a shit" for them.

It's not an XBOX game fucknuts... And for every bloke you kill, you just create 10 more to take his place.

No Moral superiority, no defence of democratic or free principles... I'm glad you're content to shit on all that was built after WW2...

This is how it reads... Fuck the constitution - you can kill americans just don't take my right to bear arms..
 
We are not at war with Yemen but dropping bombs on their soil is good way to start one. I just don't think we would put up with other countries pulling the same shit here that we do there. Lucky for us though, we don't have to put up with it here and they have no choice. We have the coolest toys.

Yemen is asking us to do it
 
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