So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

Cory and trevor said:

So, is sub's supersoil a living soil? I dont see mycos in the ingredients. so how does the fox farms bottled stuff kill the fungi if its so resiliant? WTF is in fox farms that's killing my fungi

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IIRC one of the soils he uses as a base has mycos in the ingredients.

Looking at his mix it doesn't seem to be "super" diverse. My clones are all transplanted and loving.the "rrog" soil.oh and I don't miss mixing nutrients! Maybe I will try and get a pic soon.

Cool, fattie. Keep in mind that the best microbes are YOUR microbes. The LOCAL microbes. All the microbes that soil needs is in every breath you take. Quite literally. Local microbes are stronger microbes. The plant will feed the microbes it wants and all the rest of the crap that we add (myself included) is really unnecessary and will likely be killed off, anyways. The local stuff is much better.

I know, I know Rrog..lol but really the reason I didn't add the local soil this time is because I just conquered root aphids after dealing with them on and off for probably a year, and I couldn't bear the thought of bringing in another pest. I got you on this next batch though, along with the compost, and bio-char. My plants are looking damn good though. Blue cheesies heading to flower room next friday. Will be running this 600 24/0 and swapping plants in and out every 12 hours. Should be interesting.

When you let the mix sit and "cook" or compost or whatever you want to call it the bad stuff should be taken care of by the nematodes and mosquito dunks, correct? Or is there something else keeping the buggers in check.

How do you know FoxFarm is killing your fungi? Are you're mushrooms wilting or what? lol.. Do you know what you're looking for and what power microscope are you using?

I'd like to check out some mosquito dunks under a scope too.. Oh and nematodes also..

really hoping this mosquito dunk juice undermines damn fungus gnats. will the BT in dunks have a negative impact on nematodes? for local soil... you just mix in a random sample from the yard or what? mostly sand here, also have humics around lowland areas too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis

http://www.npic.orst.edu/factsheets/BTgen.pdf

http://www.experts123.com/q/what-are-mosquito-dunks.html

stumpjumper said:

How do you know FoxFarm is killing your fungi? Are you're mushrooms wilting or what? lol.. Do you know what you're looking for and what power microscope are you using?

I'd like to check out some mosquito dunks under a scope too.. Oh and nematodes also..

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I dont KNOW FF is, all these organic geniuses say it is though. I thought the bushmasters series was designed to feed and bolster the bacteria nad fungi while the plant used some of the fertilizers at times in the life cycle it was useful to them and wasn't supporting them so that they stayed alive and fed and working harmoniously with the other elements in fox farms but I'm obviously not up on this living soil shit as I have bottles and am now out of the club of hitting the bottle (sad face)

#1- You don't feed the microbes, the plant does. The plant secretes food for the microbes from the plant roots.

#2- You just build the soil and the marriage between the plant and the microbes is on.

#3- Local microbes are called BIM (Beneficial Indigenous Microbes) and you can gather a strong bacterial component by making the lacto B serum previously described, as Fattie did.

#4- The BTI dunks (bacteria) work fine with the nematodes. (Someone in MI should be growing these nematodes and selling them to us). Add to the soil while "cooking" and they will seek out larvae to eat / infect.

#5- A scoop of local soil, especially from a wild grassy area will have your local heavy hitter microbes. We're looking for the microbe contribution, not humus contribution.

#6- Don't forget some neem meal, or better yet, Neem and Karanja together, as well as crab shell meal. This stuff is cheap and potent.

I'm very glad to see all the questions and activity. I'm working to distill this all down to a simple recipe. I am experimenting with a 30 gal fabric pot as a worm bin. Very simple, add your own Bokashi (your composted food scraps) to the worms. You can add all the powdered amendments to create a super vermicompost. Best available, much better than you can buy, and they will make all of it that you can use FOR FREE. So... best stuff available on this planet... for free.

That's all good and everything. I actually do make a supersoil light version and "cook" it for 30 days. now, I get the part about the plant feeding the microbes and the microbes feeding the plant and how if the pant bypasses this using ferts that are synthetic it could starve the microbes and bacteria. I think fox farms thought of this relationship though and thats what the bushmasters series is for-to make up for the slight but not total loss of micro nutrients from plant to microbes when the ferts are present. I submit that maybe FF has included enough food for the microbes (microbe brew and root drench) to maintain synergy between the ferts and natural relationship. can anyone prove or disprove this? I will be taking a sample from a chopped-plant pot this spring and sending it to MSU for anaylsis. I am betting it will still be alive and very VERY rich in useful alive organisms as well as food for both plant and microbes but I could be wrong.

The best soil has no nutes of any kind. MJ is the only commercially grown plant that uses this sort of bottled ferts. Look at any other organically grown crop and not one uses it. These available ferts are just a gimic and take your cash and are completely... completely unnecessary.

Rrog said:

The best soil has no nutes of any kind. MJ is the only commercially grown plant that uses this sort of bottled ferts. Look at any other organically grown crop and not one uses it. These available ferts are just a gimic and take your cash and are completely... completely unnecessary.

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Are you really saying that comercially grown corn isn't fertilized? I'm all about organics and learning about them and using it eventually but that statement is going to blow your credability totally up with me. Orchards use ferts, and bug repelant that is fucking noxious-there is one across the road from me and I have known the owners since birth. cornfield next door same thing. Do you really think comercially grown plants dont use ferts? C'mon now, let's come back to planet earth. there is an organic section at meijer and a greenhouse section in the produce and they are both dwarfed by the rest of the produce. news flash the other 80% of the produce section used fertilizers and pest controll that isn't organic. I get your side and I won't want to come off as combative but that statement is way off. organic food costs more and is more labor intensive for the same yeild and quality. Farmers amend the shit out of the soil and use ferts, its just a fact. I'm not trying to fight with you on this and it's off subject and I want to learn organics but I am having trouble with that statement you jsut made.

Organic farms, I'm referring to. Plants can't grow out of thin air, I agree. You amend the soil with natural products. Fox Farm, bloom burst, bud swell, myco madness, etc. are not natural and simply cost you cash.

If someone really wants to understand the relationship between the plant, soil and microbes, the book Teaming With Microbes is the book to read. If there were confusing parts, I'd be happy to address them. As a general observation, growers tend to make this much more difficult on themselves than they need to.

OK, cool I have some run ins with some weird dudes on the organic forums and at the farm markets that say some stuff that's just crazy. You know whats up I like your style I learn a lot from you. Respect. I'll be getting that book.

I really think it would be so cool if we have a few of us with that book, we read a few pages then discuss online or such. Break it down into digestible bites. It really is the best consolidated book on the topic. And it's only the first 1/2 of the book that has the info. The second half is taking care of a lawn, etc.

I am very interested in getting the MIGrow guys tuned into this very simple, very effective and very inexpensive grow system.

Again, imaging building your soil, then re-using again and again and again. Minimal amendments along the way, and what amendments there are can be free or at least cheap. Way way too much money being spent on growing. I would love to change all that.

I really like the questions

amazon says my copy of teaming with moicrobes should be here inside 7 days.

Cory and trevor said:

I dont KNOW FF is, all these organic geniuses say it is though. I thought the bushmasters series was designed to feed and bolster the bacteria nad fungi while the plant used some of the fertilizers at times in the life cycle it was useful to them and wasn't supporting them so that they stayed alive and fed and working harmoniously with the other elements in fox farms but I'm obviously not up on this living soil shit as I have bottles and am now out of the club of hitting the bottle (sad face)

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I am pretty sure I am the only one that said some of the Fox Farm nutrients work against the beneficial bacteria.
I read it right in the True Living Organics book. He says the Big Bloom is organic and good.
He also says the Tiger Bloom and Grow Big are not. They are salts. Salts are synthetic.
It's not my claim it's his. I didn't like reading it myself. I own all the bottles of Fox Farm.

Now I am mixing my own soil. It takes 4 weeks to cook. Well I have soil plants now, and up till the
mixed soil is ready. I need to feed them something until my soil is mixed and ready.
I never said FF won't work. You can't do it. None of that. The Rev said it works against my Great White
that I use for Mycos. I ordered Roots Organic bottled nutes to use up until I am fully into
my mixed soil. Roots organic may be just as bad. If that's the case, oh well I guess.
I hope that clears up a little bit. The info I read could be wrong, and maybe FF is the best shit on the market. I'm not using it anymore
cuz I clearly read it isn't organic.

it aint just you glad I've heard it before. I still look at the food I eat and the chemicals they put into them and think, what's the problem with the dirty non-orgaincs? I want to go healthy and organic I jsut need to sort out what's "healthy" and organic for me and my purposes. Most claim the death of microbes not to be from salt use but breaking up the symbiotic relationship between the soil the tiny bugs (bacteria and fungi) and the plant by skipping a step in the organic process and starving out the good buggies. but at any rate I can't get over my move from purely hydro because the lack of flavor and weid taste I couldn't get rid of even with a flush. I moved from hydroton and general hydroponics nutes growing to fox farms in soil and the flavor and all that (with a big flush at the end mind you and following their shcedule at a light dose) was much improved. it was as good a taste with a good cure and flush out as any organic I have tasted with a yeild I can't touch YET with living soil alone (supersoil). So how did they improve that flavor and maintain that yeild? I don't know but organic and FF tastes the same to me but I can't get yeild on organic up yet so I'm going in deep to read on teas and soils and all that shit to try and up it. Maybe it's apples and oranges and I should not be comparing them? meh, books on its way, number 5 needs input! IIIIINNNNPPPUUUUUTTTTT STEPHANIE!