Mike Young
Well-Known Member
80% seriously? I had no idea the savings were so significant. Is there a good thread that could get me familiar with the basics? I am certainly capable of searching for myself, but sometimes it's good to cross promote.
Taking the plunge: HP Aero Drain to Waste
- Thread starter GreenThumbSucker
- Start date
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
Back in the day over at Cannabis Culture there was a medical MJ research scientist on the Hydro forums named Fatman7574 who talked a lot about how fertilizer companies were ripping us off and that we could easily mix our own. We talked him into posting a two part formula for making Lucas formula from raw salts. We started pushing him and picking his brain for commercial recipes, but he was hesitant because he didn't know how the Fertilizer companies would react. Finally he cut loose and started posting all kinds of recipes. It became a mission for him, teaching us how to make our own fertilizers for 1/6 the cost.80% seriously? I had no idea the savings were so significant. Is there a good thread that could get me familiar with the basics? I am certainly capable of searching for myself, but sometimes it's good to cross promote.
He got banned from a lot of forums. Partly because he didn't get along well with certain people, but also because he was posting commercial fertilizer recipes. I believe Big Mike was paying forums to ban him. He started getting banned for really stupid things, like posting growing methods that 'might confuse beginners', stuff like that. In the end, he accomplished what he set out to do. He posted a lot of threads here on roll it up too.
I don't think I would be doing drain to waste with my aero setup if I had to pay $30 per gallon for my fertilizer. At $5 - $7 per gallon it's still hella cheap.
I will post some of his threads.
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/268790-lucas-formula-recipe-scratch-really.html
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/fatmans-diy-nutrient-mixing-guide.20899/
https://www.rollitup.org/nutrients/528660-mixing-your-own-nutrient-solutions.html
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/fatmans-diy-nutrient-mixing-guide.20899/
Anyhow, you can google fatman and nutrients and find his recipes. He posted a lot of recipes for Advanced Nutrients, General Hydroponics and Botanicare products.
He also gave recipes for things like calmag and excellent guides for things like killing root rot and building aeroponic systems. Most of his recipes are posted in ounces, so they have to be converted to grams. The only tricky part is mixing the salts in the right order. If you need help with that part just ask.
Most of the salts can be bought cheaply here:
http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicSupplies/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=264_268&zenid=7253d71451c34f67da70b9c7fceb4867
and here:
http://www.cropking.com/HydroponicSupplies/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=264_269
Any salts that you can't find there can be found on ebay.
GTS
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
I just thought his last name was "Banned" since it was written after his name everywhere...it is a beautiful thing
the first time i tryed i added potassium silicate after other ingrediants what a mess.
now my a+bs are perfectly clear . with just a few little particles in a little microscopic pile spinning around in my 5 liter Erlenmeyer flask
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
First batch of Lucas I made I added the Magnesium first (it's supposed to go last) and ended up with a layer on the bottom that looked like ice. When I hit the point where the plants stopped stretching and needed more mag, instant mag deficiency. The magnesium fell out of the solution.
Live and learn.
I get the iddy biddy spinning micro-pile too when doing the micro nutrients. I have read that if you dissolve them each separately then add them slowly one by one, you dont see much of that. Either way it is pretty dang simple and it works. Amazing how little of some elements you use. Like the molybdenum. For a 6 gallon batch you just use the tiniest possible speck of molybdenum.
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
How much tap root should I see before I put them back onto the Aero pods? They are just starting to drop roots in my Dwc tote.
Is taking a few days more than I anticipated. My basement is about 55 degrees cuz of a cold spell. I put a tote upside down over the clones to trap heat from the flora lamp I have them under. Makes a nice little greenhouse.
Is taking a few days more than I anticipated. My basement is about 55 degrees cuz of a cold spell. I put a tote upside down over the clones to trap heat from the flora lamp I have them under. Makes a nice little greenhouse.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
lol, no idea why, but if not added first, silica causes some major precipitation... I am sure someone could give the scientific reason why, but it's beyond me...
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be nice to have one of those lab mixers with the magnetic spinner that goes inside your pyrex?
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Best bet is to try to grow them in aero from the start so they don't have to suffer the transition. The method Atomizer told me of using shredded rockwool in the netcup and hand watering lightly until the roots emerge works great...
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
They are at the point now where the netpots are infested with roots and they are starting to poke out here and there. Maybe I will put them back in the system tomorrow and be on with it.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
good, the sooner the better imo... next time try the handwatering option in the aero, it's the best method I've used so far...
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
Yep will do. Here is what the four or five days in the DWC did.
I just popped them back into the aero system. It's on!
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
I hear that. I keep using smaller and smaller netpots so I have to deal with it less and less. The shit gets everywhere. I will cover the RW cubes today.
GTS
AeroPonicsWizaRd
Member
chemistry ma friend lol i would imagine adding the ingredients very slowly with a little heat and a mixer bar would do wonders, have any of you ever heard of plant tissue culture and how to make the nutrient solution for it, i imagine it shares a lot of the same aspects
i hope to soon be able to buy the components needed for plant tissue culture it is really cool you can keep strains of your favorite plants for extremely long periods of time in little jars and clone from them and make lots of healthy clones from species banks ultra cheaper than seeds i long run you define female plants with your desired characteristics and clone them at will to make crops of your species bank, only drawbacks are a big learning curve and costs of equipment and learning how to apply sterile aseptic technique lots of good videos on youtube , in the long run you save on buying seeds by only buying them once and keeping your best to add to species bank. i was amazed to learn this beautiful method for preserving great strains that need to be kept for the greater good for all of us, just beautiful. i love science!
i hope to soon be able to buy the components needed for plant tissue culture it is really cool you can keep strains of your favorite plants for extremely long periods of time in little jars and clone from them and make lots of healthy clones from species banks ultra cheaper than seeds i long run you define female plants with your desired characteristics and clone them at will to make crops of your species bank, only drawbacks are a big learning curve and costs of equipment and learning how to apply sterile aseptic technique lots of good videos on youtube , in the long run you save on buying seeds by only buying them once and keeping your best to add to species bank. i was amazed to learn this beautiful method for preserving great strains that need to be kept for the greater good for all of us, just beautiful. i love science!
AeroPonicsWizaRd
Member
i always prefer smaller net pots and silica grow rocks "the rock that doesn't roll" it has awesome amount of surface area for beneficial bacteria and endo and ecto Mycorrhizae i think ths is crucial to any system involving a reservoir why leave the water full of food and then kill all microbial life? never made sense to me, i feel it is just fighting the natural order of things too much trying to grow sterile leaves you open for random bugs and bacteria to vector in pathogens, how is it not better to inoculate your res with the good guys first let them establish and they should be in a sense like a shield for pathogens, when it's sterile it's just that no room for error, that means following clean and sterile aseptic technique. or be victim to whatever works its way in there, lol i use synthetic botanicaire two part nutes with cal mag and great white my rez smells good barely an odor and clear as could be after two weeks with two 10 inch airstones and my plants sure as hell aren't complaining, lol
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
I can appreciate your logic, however bio-film can be a pain especially in aero with clogging issues, etc. A sterile environment is easily kept with a few drops of bleach per gallon, and the microbes are not needed to do any nutrient conversions since we are already using chemical base nutrients. I am all for inoculating my gut however- but that's a whole different matter alltogether... 
AeroPonicsWizaRd
Member
i have yet to have biofilm being a problem or even any of it really 2 weeks res is crystal clear since first change and little to no odor, and my plants are rocking out hard they look as happy as a plant could be lol i had one mister clog up and it was from a small piece of plastic i neglected to remove from the tubing when i cut it i sure found it in the mister head it fell out when i took it apart i put it back together and still have no clogging, riddle me that one batman im sure it might be more of an issue down the road going on week 5, i am willing to bet good money most issues are from light getting in your reservoir leading to excess growth of something maybe, i would love to do some experimentation with that theory when i can afford it.I can appreciate your logic, however bio-film can be a pain especially in aero with clogging issues, etc. A sterile environment is easily kept with a few drops of bleach per gallon, and the microbes are not needed to do any nutrient conversions since we are already using chemical base nutrients. I am all for inoculating my gut however- but that's a whole different matter alltogether...
i wonder why i don't have biofilm or slime issues and i been letting my res go for longer than others have and it seems great, and i have no algae growth whatsoever, i took great care to ensure everything below the stalk is dark as could be, i would love to hear some feedback from anyone that has some experience with the biofilm and clogging and what type of filtration you use
AeroPonicsWizaRd
Member
and remember that's nothing but nutes and bennies, no bleach or peroxide which is known to have toxic substances for stabilizing it for shelf life. hopefully i will go full term and not have issues but nothing is perfect. and from what i understand about microbiology is that a healthy population of good bacteria and fungi are essential to overpopulating the bad ones i fail to see how what i am doing isn't going to work because it sure is and and has been lol have you seen transplanting good fecal bacteria into the colon of an unhealthy population has been the most effective treatment to date to stop bad pathogens from taking over your colon and c diff kills 14,500 people a year. i don't think my proposal sounds too far fetched.
GreenThumbSucker
Well-Known Member
I normally use H2O2, but will be using bleach for my aero. Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxydizer and a little too much can burn roots. My drip and ebb and flow setups were in strait up hydroton so they could handle quite a bit of H202. DWC has the water for a buffer. Aero has no buffer, just air and mist. Not taking a chance on burning them.
Bleach is a weak oxidizer, so it is a lot more forgiving, but very good for absolute sterilization. Just added a bit today. 1/2 tsp for about 35 gallons. 1 tsp per 50 gallons of 7% chlorine bleach = 1 ppm chlorine, which is what most municipal systems use. You can give them that much every other day. I will add it once a week midweek. I also cover my reservoir so floaties from the air don't get in the solution and im using a 150 micron filter pre pump. I think I will get another 150 micron filter just for good measure.
So far everything is going good. They are dropping roots quickly now. Turned up the PPM tonight to right around 500. They had been sitting at about 300 ppm for the last three days. I will wait til they take off full blast then perhaps bump it up a little more, but maybe not.
Added a second halide to the room. They are now 2000 watts. Have them 3 feet over the plants for now, will drop them a bit in a few days.
Once the roots drop down a ways, I will switch from angled to strait misters. Right now I'm drenching a bit. Giving them 6 seconds every two minutes. I am going to wait and see how warm it gets in the totes before I adjust. They are pretty cool thus far. I have them very well insulated and my solution is sitting at 52 degrees.
Im stoked....