The klx Way!

I am looking for that Holy Grail

Perhaps it does not exist.
I read something about a new strain called King Kong from this spanish breed called Dr. Underground.
But all those breeders are exaggerating both their flowerperiod (7 weeks!) and yield.

Keesje said:

I am looking for that Holy Grail

Perhaps it does not exist.
I read something about a new strain called King Kong from this spanish breed called Dr. Underground.
But all those breeders are exaggerating both their flowerperiod (7 weeks!) and yield.

Click to expand...

haha yep we all looking for the Holy Grail but honestly, even if you find it, then you want to find a better one.

I think with Dutch and Spanish breeders you get more worked lines and more similar plants from a pack of seeds but these days the US has the hype.

Edit: I looked up that strain - (Northern Light x {Skunk x Northern Light} x AK47) X Big Bud from what I can make out. Classic Dutch genetics, will please 99% of people other than the snobs...RIP Nevil!

Awesome thread man, glad I stumbled upon it and can't believe it took me this long to find it. I've been thinking about trying the NFT/flood hybrid for a few weeks now. The 3x3 trays you use are the low tides? Short 3inch walls or the 7inch high walls?

Axion42 said:

Awesome thread man, glad I stumbled upon it and can't believe it took me this long to find it. I've been thinking about trying the NFT/flood hybrid for a few weeks now. The 3x3 trays you use are the low tides? Short 3inch walls or the 7inch high walls?

Click to expand...

Hey mate, thanks. They are pretty deep trays but I only flood as high as 1 riser on the flood fittings when I do F&D.

Hey there Klx, its been a while since your last post in this thread so not sure if you are still around,....

This is my first post ever (after a lot of lurking and one or two trial grows on F&D tables we are attempting to set up and fine tune). I have to say your set up and results look fricken awesome, and this thread (which I wish I had found earlier!) has been a massive information mine for me. So Many thanks for taking the time to put this up, and also your patience in answering everyone's questions!!

We are currently trialing a very similar F&D set up to yours but have been cloning in the foam inserts and then putting the rooted clones into 70mm net pots with clay balls before putting int he flowering tables and flipping to 12/12.

Your system of cloning and finishing all in the same net pot/collars looks even better still. So I was wondering if you could help me identify the actual net pot u are using, as we don't seem to have them available here in my country and so may need to import some.

Many thanks for your help,....and also to everybody else who contributes to this forum. Its been a real massive help.....not only as we have attempted to set up, but also in overcoming some of the problems we have experienced along the way.

cheers!

flytrap007 said:

Hey there Klx, its been a while since your last post in this thread so not sure if you are still around,....

This is my first post ever (after a lot of lurking and one or two trial grows on F&D tables we are attempting to set up and fine tune). I have to say your set up and results look fricken awesome, and this thread (which I wish I had found earlier!) has been a massive information mine for me. So Many thanks for taking the time to put this up, and also your patience in answering everyone's questions!!

We are currently trialing a very similar F&D set up to yours but have been cloning in the foam inserts and then putting the rooted clones into 70mm net pots with clay balls before putting int he flowering tables and flipping to 12/12.

Your system of cloning and finishing all in the same net pot/collars looks even better still. So I was wondering if you could help me identify the actual net pot u are using, as we don't seem to have them available here in my country and so may need to import some.

Many thanks for your help,....and also to everybody else who contributes to this forum. Its been a real massive help.....not only as we have attempted to set up, but also in overcoming some of the problems we have experienced along the way.

cheers!

Click to expand...

G'day mate, no worries glad you found it helpful. I got the net pots from China from memory as they were the cheapest but any 2 inch net pot would work, you just need to buy the pots first, then make your inserts and cut your holes to match them. Give me a sec I will see if I can find the actual ones I bought...

Here you go mate this is them, I dunno where you are located but check ebay. The ones I got are size #03 on this listing. Cheap as chips too:

Another tip about netpots:
Some pots have a narrow rim. Then the chance that they fall through the inserts is bigger. I bought 50 mm netpots myself on Aliexpress.
The rim of these is wider.

@flytrap007
Why the clayballs? The big advantage of the KLX-system is no clayballs.
No rinsing, no cleaning, no buying bags of pebbles.

klx said:

G'day mate, no worries glad you found it helpful. I got the net pots from China from memory as they were the cheapest but any 2 inch net pot would work, you just need to buy the pots first, then make your inserts and cut your holes to match them. Give me a sec I will see if I can find the actual ones I bought...

Here you go mate this is them, I dunno where you are located but check ebay. The ones I got are size #03 on this listing. Cheap as chips too:

10pcs Hydroponics Plant Grow Net Cup Mesh Pot Basket Aeroponic Aquaponic Mesh | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 10pcs Hydroponics Plant Grow Net Cup Mesh Pot Basket Aeroponic Aquaponic Mesh at the best online prices at eBay!

www.ebay.com.au

Click to expand...

Hi Klx,

Glad you are still around! and thanks for taking the time to reply.

Awesome and many thanks again!



Cheers mate!

Keesje said:

Another tip about netpots:
Some pots have a narrow rim. Then the chance that they fall through the inserts is bigger. I bought 50 mm netpots myself on Aliexpress.
The rim of these is wider.

@flytrap007
Why the clayballs? The big advantage of the KLX-system is no clayballs.
No rinsing, no cleaning, no buying bags of pebbles.

Click to expand...

Hi there Keesje,

Yes, totally agreed. This is precisely why I'm wanting to run the KLX system - to do away with the clay balls! And there is also some appeal in being able to take clones straight from the cloner and put them in the F&D tables without having to change their growing container - Minimal disturbance.

We originally set up to clone using the aqua cloner, and then transfer the rooted clones to 70mm net pots/clay balls when putting them onto the F&D tables for flowering. The F&D tables are covered over with white panda film to exclude light from the root zone, and basically has slits cut in it so that the net pots can be put in. This was all done because another thread had been done on this method, and it seemed to work well.

However, after one or two experimental runs while trying to get things tweaked (and pheno hunt the best suited plant from among my scabby patch of mongrals) I began to think about how much better it would be to be able to do it pretty much as Klx has laid it out.

So it was a real bonus to find his thread this morning while searching for "how much roots do clones need before switching to 12/12?"

Thanks for your input! Hope things are well in your part of the world!

I also setup my F&D system this way and it's been a great success. My clones only need very few roots before I plop them into the F&D and they take off from there. I only veg in this system until flower tent is done and then they go indo my rdwc system, veg for 2-3 weeks then flip.

Axion42 said:

I also setup my F&D system this way and it's been a great success. My clones only need very few roots before I plop them into the F&D and they take off from there. I only veg in this system until flower tent is done and then they go indo my rdwc system, veg for 2-3 weeks then flip.

Click to expand...

Heya Axion,

Good to know thanks. That adds to my confidence this is the right way to proceed.

Yes, the amount of root on clones is something we are currently trying to determine for ourselves. My own observations so far is that some strains need a decent set of roots before being flipped to 12/12, or otherwise they will sulk and not grow any size. While other strains seem to need almost none at all and can power away into remarkably tall plants ( almost too tall if you are not careful).

cheers

I think you should (not only at least) look at the amount of roots a clone has before flipping it to 12/12.
The number of plants per square meter is the most important factor.
If you have 36 or 49 plants per square meter, you can flip them much sooner than if you only have 16 on the same surface.

Second important factor is: Each strain will continue to grow in a different way after flipping.
Some just keep on growing and growing. Others will slow down or stop growing after a few days.
Some can be flipped if 25% or 33% of the surface is filled with leaves.
For others it is better to wait until half of your surface is filled with leaves.
This is strain dependent and something you have to find out for your particular strain.

The more roots, the better. You are right there.
You can help the cuttings a bit and get better, thicker and longer roots > Not much used in hydro, but in soil or rockwool: rooting gel or powder.
The only difficulty is to use these products in hydro. It immediately flushes away or it blocks the internal channels of your stem.

What I have done myself is the following: Cuttings cut (1 cm longer than I finally want them) and dipped the bottom 3 or 4 cm in rooting powder. (every brand is good. No need to get Clonex or something)
Leave them like this for 15 minutes.
Then the powder was washed off and the last centimeter of the stem was cut again.
Then I put the cuttings in the cloner.
These cuttings clearly had more, thicker and longer roots than cuttings that I had put in the cloner without using the powder.

Keesje said:

I think you should (not only at least) look at the amount of roots a clone has before flipping it to 12/12.
The number of plants per square meter is the most important factor.
If you have 36 or 49 plants per square meter, you can flip them much sooner than if you only have 16 on the same surface.

Second important factor is: Each strain will continue to grow in a different way after flipping.
Some just keep on growing and growing. Others will slow down or stop growing after a few days.
Some can be flipped if 25% or 33% of the surface is filled with leaves.
For others it is better to wait until half of your surface is filled with leaves.
This is strain dependent and something you have to find out for your particular strain.

The more roots, the better. You are right there.
You can help the cuttings a bit and get better, thicker and longer roots > Not much used in hydro, but in soil or rockwool: rooting gel or powder.
The only difficulty is to use these products in hydro. It immediately flushes away or it blocks the internal channels of your stem.

What I have done myself is the following: Cuttings cut (1 cm longer than I finally want them) and dipped the bottom 3 or 4 cm in rooting powder. (every brand is good. No need to get Clonex or something)
Leave them like this for 15 minutes.
Then the powder was washed off and the last centimeter of the stem was cut again.
Then I put the cuttings in the cloner.
These cuttings clearly had more, thicker and longer roots than cuttings that I had put in the cloner without using the powder.

Click to expand...

Yes plants per m2 is another factor we are currently trying to work out. The goal is to grow single stems of solid bud with a finished height of around 400-550mm. We are growing under adjustawings 315cmh lights and while they seem to be good lights I don' t think these have a lot of penetration so hence not wanting to let the plants get too tall. At this stage 25-30 plants per m2 is looking like around where we might end up. We still have a lot of work to do in selecting strains though, which will ultimately determine the spacing/plants per m2

My cloner is home made and I was surprised to see it is almost exactly the same as Klx's one. And I'm finding through trial and error that I need to maintain ph and temp (and of course cleanness) to get optimim results. This first came to light when a second run was waaaaaaayy slower to root than our initial run. Everything else was the same except for having used bore water for the second run after our rain water ran out. Unlike a lot of bore water our bore water is exceptionally good. But something in the bore water made the PH keep rising at a rate way above normal. Trying to adjust or combat this with PH down ( nitric or phosphoric acid) led to too high an ECs. We eventually got onto using sulfuric acid and also a product ( that possibly more growers should know about) that is sold in aquarium shops called PH down buffer. This powder used in tiny amounts adjusts the ph down without adding anything to the EC and prevents it going back up as easily as it otherwise would. The short version is higher temps ( 28degC seems close to ideal WITH proper sanitation), very low EC, and a PH around 5.7 seems to give us the best and fastest results. I'm currently using a capfull of clonex gel in the cloner water also. But it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't making any difference.

It makes no difference at all.
The gel just contains a really small amount of IBA (Indole-3-butyric acid)
So if you even dilute it even more, it does not work at all.
You need it in the first minutes, hours or days (depending on the plant and how much ppm you use)

About the penetration:
Think about using led strips.
Plant penetration has more to do with whether the light can 'sneak' through and under the upper leaves. With a strip the light comes from hundreds of sources. It lights the surface from different angles.
The light will reach the leaves that hang lower much better.
Penetration has only to a certain extent to do with the power of light. More with how the light is distributed.
Some growers think that a strong lamp will go through the leaves themselves. Not true.

Good discussion guys, I would agree with most of what you are saying. The most critical factor with fast rooting in the aero cloners is water temp and I would agree that about 28C is pretty much spot on (assuming of course it is pathogen free - H202)

Regards plant numbers, the conventional wisdom for SoGs is single stem colas and pack them in and lollipop them, and it works great, but also dont be afraid to run very branchy GG#4 type plants and let them branch naturally and DONT lollipop them but DO defoliate them hard. You can also get good results and nice yields from them too!

Keesje said:

What I have done myself is the following: Cuttings cut (1 cm longer than I finally want them) and dipped the bottom 3 or 4 cm in rooting powder. (every brand is good. No need to get Clonex or something)
Leave them like this for 15 minutes.
Then the powder was washed off and the last centimeter of the stem was cut again.
Then I put the cuttings in the cloner.
These cuttings clearly had more, thicker and longer roots than cuttings that I had put in the cloner without using the powder.

Click to expand...

Thats interesting!

There are many scientific reports about the use of IBA.
There is no doubt that it works.
What the best percentages are and how long the 'dip' time ... that depends on the type of plant.
I ordered some 99% IBA and will do some tests with that.

Dilute the IBA to, for example, 0.25% and then put the fresh cut clones in it for one hour. Or once for 6 hours.
There is a kind of rule that the higher the percentage of IBA in the liquid, the shorter the time the cuttings need to be in it.

Thanks for the tips. this is all good info. Once I have all the other aspects of cloning sorted I had intended to do some trials on some of the various rooting products/methods. So I'll definitely try your powder method.

I too want to thank you all for this thread. Some great info here.
Question - has anyone run this without mother plants and used the cuttings from when you first lollipop the clones for your new batch of clones? Is there any reason you can't?

Testhert said:

Question - has anyone run this without mother plants and used the cuttings from when you first lollipop the clones for your new batch of clones? Is there any reason you can't?

Click to expand...

I had a multiple stage perpetual grow going for a long time, I used to take whatever cuttings were due, from whatever area, of whichever plant, that looked like the right shape.
Cuttings can come from anywhere, whenever, in my experience. Some strains/ phenos, can be stubborn of course!

Testhert said:

I too want to thank you all for this thread. Some great info here.
Question - has anyone run this without mother plants and used the cuttings from when you first lollipop the clones for your new batch of clones? Is there any reason you can't?

Click to expand...

Wouldn't work for mediumless as your clones would be rooted many weeks before you need them plus they would be too small so you would then have to veg them.