The Trade war between the US and Communist China

Abiqua said:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html

How much has the US lost from China's IP theft?

The United States has long said that intellectual property theft has cost the US economy billions of dollars in revenue and thousands of jobs.

So just how much damage has it done?

The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

Those numbers are in line with a 2017 report from the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property.

Chinese officials have said that protecting foreign companies' intellectual property rights is important to China.

But many of its companies appear to have missed that memo.

China has sought to acquire US technology by any means, licit or illicit," James Andrew Lewis, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, wrote in a blog post Thursday.

"Espionage and theft were part of this, but so were forced technology transfers or mandatory joint ventures as a condition for doing business in China," he wrote.

One of the most recent high profile examples of theft of US intellectual property happened earlier this year. In January, a Beijing-based wind turbine company was found guilty in the US of stealing trade secrets, using secretly downloadedsource code stolen from a Massachusetts company.

Forced technology transfer is also a growing concern for US companies, especially tech firms.

To get an idea of how much forced technology transfer costs the US, some experts say to look at the costs associated with the theft of trade secrets. Total theft of US trade secretsaccounts for anywhere from $180 billion to $540 billion per year, according to the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property -- as "the world's principal IP infringer," China accounts for the most of that theft.

Those numbers are likely to go up, as China doubles down on policies that could lead to acquisition of foreign technology and information -- like the controversial new cybersecurity lawthat went into effect last year.

One of the most contentious parts of the law involves measures that allow China to conduct security reviews of technology products and services that could affect national security.

Critics slammed the plans as intrusive and trade-inhibiting, and industry organizations, including the US Chamber of Commerce, say they are concerned over unfair advantages for Chinese companies and trade barriers.

Beijing says the new law is meant to strengthen the protection of personal information and combat online fraud.



CNNMoney (Hong Kong)First published March 23, 2018: 1:59 AM ET

Click to expand...

Abiqua said:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html

How much has the US lost from China's IP theft?

The United States has long said that intellectual property theft has cost the US economy billions of dollars in revenue and thousands of jobs.

So just how much damage has it done?

The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

Those numbers are in line with a 2017 report from the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property.

Chinese officials have said that protecting foreign companies' intellectual property rights is important to China.

But many of its companies appear to have missed that memo.

China has sought to acquire US technology by any means, licit or illicit," James Andrew Lewis, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, wrote in a blog post Thursday.

"Espionage and theft were part of this, but so were forced technology transfers or mandatory joint ventures as a condition for doing business in China," he wrote.

One of the most recent high profile examples of theft of US intellectual property happened earlier this year. In January, a Beijing-based wind turbine company was found guilty in the US of stealing trade secrets, using secretly downloadedsource code stolen from a Massachusetts company.

Forced technology transfer is also a growing concern for US companies, especially tech firms.

To get an idea of how much forced technology transfer costs the US, some experts say to look at the costs associated with the theft of trade secrets. Total theft of US trade secretsaccounts for anywhere from $180 billion to $540 billion per year, according to the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property -- as "the world's principal IP infringer," China accounts for the most of that theft.

Those numbers are likely to go up, as China doubles down on policies that could lead to acquisition of foreign technology and information -- like the controversial new cybersecurity lawthat went into effect last year.

One of the most contentious parts of the law involves measures that allow China to conduct security reviews of technology products and services that could affect national security.

Critics slammed the plans as intrusive and trade-inhibiting, and industry organizations, including the US Chamber of Commerce, say they are concerned over unfair advantages for Chinese companies and trade barriers.

Beijing says the new law is meant to strengthen the protection of personal information and combat online fraud.



CNNMoney (Hong Kong)First published March 23, 2018: 1:59 AM ET

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

Give that fuckhead a second term and kiss YOUR financial security goodbye for a while. Think 2008 on steroids and well before 2024.

Click to expand...

Abiqua said:

Barry McCaffrey

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

I could live with that way before Uncle Joe.

Click to expand...

Abiqua said:

Bring back Celebrity Deathmatch 1969 Timothy Leary vs Uncle Joe.

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

Give that fuckhead a second term and kiss YOUR financial security goodbye for a while. Think 2008 on steroids and well before 2024.

Click to expand...

Abiqua said:

That has been happening since 1970, no real wage increase and all... not about subsidies but how they are used?.....im in a blue state with Wyden and Merkeley. Both recently had fits about losing their timber sUbsidies to Canada because of the TPP after arguing for them. Thats one example. Corporations and government are equal ine thing, garbage. All I see is the lamenting of the anthropocentrists dilemma....the fuckening continues.
Oh, second example which is four? FANG companies Facebook Apple Google and Amazon all have huge warehouses, data centers or buildings in eastern part of the state which is highly conservative, located in a republican congressmans district, all for easier graft no doubt, what do you think is the corporate opinion on Trump, love him on the inside [subsidies] hate him on the outside [media] They gave us up a long time ago, all sides.

Barry McCaffrey

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

I used to live in Moses Lake WA. There were huge server farms all along the routes there because of cheap electricity from Bonneville. Microsoft and many more. Here the proposed Pebble Mine is a pending ecological disaster. Right above Bristol Bay and the largest freshwater salmon fishery in the world. Trump stops here to fuel going to Japan. Our Koch Brothers Governor boards the plane and asks Trump to greenlight this mine around the EPA. Done! 10 minutes and years of environmental study is absolutely irrelevant. Go for it. This mine threatens not only Bristol Bay drainage but two other separate river drainages including the Yukon. In short everything from Nome AK to just about Kodiak. Doesn’t matter. There’s millions of ounces of gold in reserves there and they’re going to get it.

Oh yeah. Foreign mining corporations doing this. Buy American! Or at least Americans.

Click to expand...

abandonconflict said:

This is a bipartisan issue. Don't you just love how the Communist Party of China has brought a little unity to the US political sphere? In the title, I stipulated "Communist China" because we really ought not to be racist against the Chinese people. Let's recognize that they have one of the world's largest diasporas with ethnic enclaves in almost every major city in the world and many of the smaller cities as well. It seems that people just can't wait to get away from the authoritarian iron fist of Xi Jinping the Pooh. Not even a festival to eat so many thousands of dogs is sufficient to make people want to stay there. Anyway I'm just ranting against the world's most terrifying political regime. I'll leave the details of the trade war to the thread. It is long past the time we let them benefit from corporate greed.

I think it is forgivable to buy Chinese products if your budget doesn't allow you to buy products from innovative companies. By that I mean companies that do their own r&d instead of stealing tech and undercutting the companies who invented tech. This goes far beyond computing. For example, Kawasaki can't win a contract to build High Speed Rail because their pricing must reflect massive R&D investments, so Chinese firms are the only ones selling this Japanese technology. Does that mean that every city that wants high speed rail should choose to pay more, even if the Chinese knock-offs are of much lower quality? It doesn't make sense - in my opinion - to blame consumers for going for the lower cost option. So I guess that makes me a proponent of tariffs but let's not mistake that for support of Trump. Almost any functional human could probably do a better job convincing the public of the need to abandon a Laissez Faire approach to global trade. Furthermore, he has indiscriminately and recklessly waged his tariff war on many other countries, including strategic allies.

Where do you stand? Did you support the TransPacific Partnership? Are you aware that the US military has engaged the PLA twice militarily in the 20th century? Korea and Vietnam were both proxy wars in which the PLA kicked our asses. Let's not fool ourselves, we played right into their hands invading those two countries and lost tens of thousands of lives and countless treasure. This rise coincided with their rise to becoming the second wealthiest nation and the most populous in the world despite their revolution having cost tens of millions of Chinese lives. In fact, they exported their revolutionary ideology (along with armaments) to Cambodia where it killed a third of the Khmer people. Now, it is essentially illegal for Tibetans to speak their own language. Uighur organs are for sale to medical tourists.

Do you think we should let this regime build the world's next telecommunications infrastructure so that they can plug their massive Orwellian apparatus of AI and facial recognition into it and observe everyone who criticizes them? Should we continue to do nothing about the fentanyl killing more than 60k Americans per year just because the UK waged an opium war over a hundred years ago?

Militarily dominating another country for the purpose of neocolonial economic exploitation has at times been Uncle Sam's forte. This has stoked anti-war sentiments and protests. We were sending kids to war in poor countries in order to bring profit to our corporate overlords (the same who love Chinese labor) but a military campaign against China is starting to seem like a moral obligation akin to the great war that our fathers and grandfathers fought three quarters of a century ago. I'm not suggesting we go to war, but as someone who has actively protested against war in the last couple of decades, I wouldn't protest if we destroyed the PLA's military assets outside of China or even destroyed the PLA altogether.

I bet millions of ethnic Han would like to see China free of them too.

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

I used to live in Moses Lake WA. There were huge server farms all along the routes there because of cheap electricity from Bonneville. Microsoft and many more. Here the proposed Pebble Mine is a pending ecological disaster. Right above Bristol Bay and the largest freshwater salmon fishery in the world. Trump stops here to fuel going to Japan. Our Koch Brothers Governor boards the plane and asks Trump to greenlight this mine around the EPA. Done! 10 minutes and years of environmental study is absolutely irrelevant. Go for it. This mine threatens not only Bristol Bay drainage but two other separate river drainages including the Yukon. In short everything from Nome AK to just about Kodiak. Doesn’t matter. There’s millions of ounces of gold in reserves there and they’re going to get it.

Oh yeah. Foreign mining corporations doing this. Buy American! Or at least Americans.

Click to expand...

Abiqua said:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html

How much has the US lost from China's IP theft?

The United States has long said that intellectual property theft has cost the US economy billions of dollars in revenue and thousands of jobs.

So just how much damage has it done?

The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

Those numbers are in line with a 2017 report from the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property.

Chinese officials have said that protecting foreign companies' intellectual property rights is important to China.

But many of its companies appear to have missed that memo.

China has sought to acquire US technology by any means, licit or illicit," James Andrew Lewis, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, wrote in a blog post Thursday.

"Espionage and theft were part of this, but so were forced technology transfers or mandatory joint ventures as a condition for doing business in China," he wrote.

One of the most recent high profile examples of theft of US intellectual property happened earlier this year. In January, a Beijing-based wind turbine company was found guilty in the US of stealing trade secrets, using secretly downloadedsource code stolen from a Massachusetts company.

Forced technology transfer is also a growing concern for US companies, especially tech firms.

To get an idea of how much forced technology transfer costs the US, some experts say to look at the costs associated with the theft of trade secrets. Total theft of US trade secretsaccounts for anywhere from $180 billion to $540 billion per year, according to the Commission on the Theft of American Intellectual Property -- as "the world's principal IP infringer," China accounts for the most of that theft.

Those numbers are likely to go up, as China doubles down on policies that could lead to acquisition of foreign technology and information -- like the controversial new cybersecurity lawthat went into effect last year.

One of the most contentious parts of the law involves measures that allow China to conduct security reviews of technology products and services that could affect national security.

Critics slammed the plans as intrusive and trade-inhibiting, and industry organizations, including the US Chamber of Commerce, say they are concerned over unfair advantages for Chinese companies and trade barriers.

Beijing says the new law is meant to strengthen the protection of personal information and combat online fraud.



CNNMoney (Hong Kong)First published March 23, 2018: 1:59 AM ET

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

Imbi Plaza, a 1970s-era shopping mall on the fringe of the Bukit Bintang area of Kuala Lumpur, is a good place in which to start understanding how the United States and China came to be in a trade war in 2018. In its heyday, in the 1990s and early 2000s, Imbi was the Malaysian capital’s thriving bazaar of high-technology – a collection of shops selling computer hardware and accessories, and the software needed to run them.

In the mid-90s, US president Bill Clinton’s administration made a lot of noise about stamping out Chinese piracy. A 1992 agreement between the US and China, negotiated by the previous administration, of George H.W. Bush, had been hailed as a major step forward, with Beijing agreeing to put new intellectual property (IP) protection laws on the books.

Testifying in March 1992 before the US Senate, the head of the Business Software Alliance (BSA), an industry group that includes most of the major software companies, said, “The commitments that China made [to IP protection] greatly exceeded any assurances that had been offered in our prior bilateral negotiations.” He estimated that US$225 million in software sales had been lost the previous year in China through piracy. Music and videos totalled hundreds of millions more.


https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2170132/how-chinas-rampant-intellectual-property-theft

Most of us have been well aware of all this for a very long time. Nobody argues it’s not a huge problem. What is a problem is Trump’s frontal assault and the pincer movement involving American trade partners. The destabilizating effect has even greedy capitalist bankers who could squeeze blood out of a turnip and who don’t mind risking it all see it all at risk. The fuckhead doesn’t know how or when to lighten up and wait for the effects and reaction. Please tell me that something that has gone on for decades is all of a sudden urgently required to the point of destruction.

Click to expand...

abandonconflict said:

I'm in KL. Still a great place to shop. It's really a great city. It's unfortunate that the Malaysian head of state seems so antisemitic but I love the Malay Peninsula. I especially enjoy Melaka and Jonker Walk. Penang is OK too. The ethnic mix up in KL makes it one of the best places in the world for a foodie. Excellent hotels are cheap and the very nice light rail system is one of the best in the world.

Click to expand...

abandonconflict said:

Trump shouldn't have killed the TPP then. This trade war wouldn't have ever happened had he not been such an idiot. All off the IP theft would have been remedied. He only killed it because black man bad.

Click to expand...

hotrodharley said:

By the way he was the best Republican ever to run as a Democrat. He couldn’t run as a Republican.

Click to expand...