The Truth About Ron Paul - Part 2

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Well seeing how i answer all the questions with facts and data and legit information, rather than spin it off in a 360 degree direction with added opinions.
Yeah, that would be the part where the applause would be deserving, as with the 360 degree opinions off topic would deserve the boo's.
There were no facts in your argument. Speculating on the behavior of an imaginary audience isn't a fact that supports anything.

The fact is that Ron Paul supports free market economics. Free market economics enables corporations to exploit people for the purpose of making profits just like they did in the gilded age.
 

deprave

New Member
Ron paul doesnt want to eliminate obama care but he says the first thing he would do is make it so you can opt out regardless.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Ron paul doesnt want to eliminate obama care but he says the first thing he would do is make it so you can opt out regardless.
That is a complete contradiction. It's like saying I don't support war but I support dropping bombs and invading countries.

Opting out does eliminate the health care plan. It only functions if everyone is covered. You can't force health insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions unless health insurance is mandatory. Otherwise people would never get health insurance until they got sick which would bankrupt the insurance companies immediately.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
And what was it like just before the gilded age dan?
A pre-industrial agrarian society. Robber barons were not the ones who invented the technology that industrialized America, they simply exploited it.

How does allowing the majority of the nations wealth to be concentrated into the hands of 20-40 families help the majority of Americans?
 

deprave

New Member
Gilded age in a nutshell my take on Dr Pauls view is that the problem wasn't too much freedom much of the economic problems specifically associated with the era were the logical byproducts of INCREASING government intervention so too little "unbridled laiseze-faire capitalism."

Contrary to "popular" wisdom... it was a time period of INCREASING, rather than decreasing, intervention by government (federal and state) in the economy... beginning in earnest during the Civil War years with the new banking acts pushed through by the Lincoln Administration that began the process of reestablishing a "national bank" which subsequently set us back on the path to boom and bust cycles (called "Panics" in those days).

Furthermore, as far as monopolies (the "boogeymen" of the era upon whom so much blame is cast by modern historians) go - again contrary to "popular" wisdom and "mainstream" history - rather than taking on the monopolies (called "trusts" in those days) to reign in their abuses... government (at all levels including the federal) actually encouraged their creation and development through anti-free-market policies that enabled large firms to avoid having to engage in real competition with small-medium sized firms through all kinds of subsidies, regulations, exclusionary contracts, and other benefits. In fact, if you look at most of the giant firms in the major industries of the era (railroads, steel, oil, telephones/telegraphs, etc.) that were considered to be the worst of the "predatory" monopolies you'll find that many actually partnered with government to undermine their competition... what many of us refer to as "crony capitalism" or perhaps "corporatism."

As it turns out, even in the late 19th century, the business elites in America, rather than standing against the trending statism in the name of freedom and capitalism, instead preferred to use the coercive power of government to undermine their competition, redistribute to themselves other people's money, and protect themselves from the consequences of their own bad decisions.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Contrary to "popular" wisdom... it was a time period of INCREASING, rather than decreasing, intervention by government (federal and state) in the economy...
No one thinks that. Of course government intervention was increasing. There were no rules for an industrialized society in place. It was basically free market economics, what Ron Paul supports. They started coming up with rules because they realized the wealthy elite were exploiting the American people.

It's the closet time in history we've ever been to a free market and it was a disaster for all those not named JP Morgan, Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc. That's what you're supporting when you support free market economics, robber barons.

No matter how hard you try you can't simply explain away the effects of the gilded age by using revisionist economic theories when we have the hard evidence from that time period that contradicts it.
 

deprave

New Member
That is a complete contradiction. It's like saying I don't support war but I support dropping bombs and invading countries.

Opting out does eliminate the health care plan. It only functions if everyone is covered. You can't force health insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions unless health insurance is mandatory. Otherwise people would never get health insurance until they got sick which would bankrupt the insurance companies immediately.
ah yea looks like I worded it wrong ..dr paul discussed this in the townhall today..http://www.wmur.com/new-hampshire-primary-extended-coverage/28200870/video.html

question is at 11:57

Lady ask whats the best way to overthrow obamacare?

Ron Paul says he won't be able to do much about this as president - he suggest he would give the ability for people to opt out of the whole system (not just obamacare).
 

deprave

New Member
No one thinks that. Of course government intervention was increasing. There were no rules for an industrialized society in place. It was basically free market economics, what Ron Paul supports. They started coming up with rules because they realized the wealthy elite were exploiting the American people.

It's the closet time in history we've ever been to a free market and it was a disaster for all those not named JP Morgan, Carnegie, Rockefeller, etc. That's what you're supporting when you support free market economics, robber barons.

No matter how hard you try you can't simply explain away the effects of the gilded age by using revisionist economic theories when we have the hard evidence from that time period that contradicts it.
What is exactly your hard evidence, government statistics and a few history books? Didn't we just learn a valuable lesson about statistics a few pages back.... Yea freedom is the devil, keep on preachin that.
 

Carthoris

Well-Known Member
The problem with nazi germany is that they tried to take over Europe and committed genocide. That is not happening here, so you really can't make a legitimate comparison.
Germany also implemented gun control. They had social welfare/insurance/ect. They pretty much had the entire democrat playbook. In the early 30's they reduced it because the world was collapsing during the Great Depression. They started deciding to give money only to those worth saving. Then they moved it on to those who weren't worth saving were a drain on society and were removed. Nazi Germany did not start and end with Hitler. It began with the individual being unimportant vs "the people". It deteriorated into the people who were dragging society down being disposed of. Even before the Nazi's were in power they were sterilizing retards and undesirables. They went on to turn into forced abortions of people who were genetically ill. This is a major concern with giving the government the ability to control our medical system. Once they decided abortion was ok to deal with those who were potentially genetically defective, the government moved on to get rid of those who were born predating the laws of the 30s.
This all came about under the guise of "progressive health reform".

It isn't like looking in a mirror, but the German people didn't know they were going to be what most consider the most horrible country ever to exist in a few short years. They took baby steps towards it, they didn't wake up one morning and say "Lets go kill millions of people in horrible ways".

Once again, Government is one of the leading causes of death in the world in the last 100 years. How do governments get more and more control of the people they are there to serve, thereby allowing them to murder them easily? They take control little by little, introducing laws that take away rights and power from the people and giving it to the Government. Why? Because it makes sense and the government can do things better since people aren't capable of taking care of themselves. 'The People' know whats best for the country, and the individual is selfish. Ignoring this fact and giving the Government more and more power over the people and their lives is somewhere we very closely mirror Germany and every other oppressive country in the history of the world. Do you really think Hitler thought what he was doing was wrong? I think he honestly believed in what he was doing and that it was right for "the People". A lot of other people obviously believed in it too. People haven't changed a whole lot in the last 60 years(Or less if you count other brutal regimes). Why would anyone think that road is impossible for America or even improbable? Following our constitution would keep this from happening.
 

deprave

New Member
"oh lawdy goberment please protect me from the free man from the innovators from the entrepreneurs you always knows wuts best goberment, I need to be safes from all these evil peoples please protect me and mah babies momma so that we must be safe i really thought u will done whats rite an stuff i dont wanna be mad fun of no moar dey always pikin on me"

HEART
DAN KONE
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
"oh lawdy goberment please protect me from the free man from the inovators from the enrepeuners you always knows wuts best goberment, I need to be safes from all these evil peoples please protect me and mah babies momma so that we must be safe i really thought u will done whats rite an stuff i dont wanna be mad fun of no moar dey always pikin on me"

HEART
DAN KONE
You're incomprehensibly ignorant. Using a fake black southern accident to characterize me as the ignorant one is not helping your cause at all. I really can't decide if that is more offensive or stupid.
 

deprave

New Member
sorry thought you could take joke...so please go on...tell us about the evil people you encounter on a daily basis and how freedom would be harmful to our way of life because of these evil people, paint the full picture for us please, how is economic freedom going to destroy America?
 

tryingtogrow89

Well-Known Member
Germany also implemented gun control. They had social welfare/insurance/ect. They pretty much had the entire democrat playbook. In the early 30's they reduced it because the world was collapsing during the Great Depression. They started deciding to give money only to those worth saving. Then they moved it on to those who weren't worth saving were a drain on society and were removed. Nazi Germany did not start and end with Hitler. It began with the individual being unimportant vs "the people". It deteriorated into the people who were dragging society down being disposed of. Even before the Nazi's were in power they were sterilizing retards and undesirables. They went on to turn into forced abortions of people who were genetically ill. This is a major concern with giving the government the ability to control our medical system. Once they decided abortion was ok to deal with those who were potentially genetically defective, the government moved on to get rid of those who were born predating the laws of the 30s.
This all came about under the guise of "progressive health reform".

It isn't like looking in a mirror, but the German people didn't know they were going to be what most consider the most horrible country ever to exist in a few short years. They took baby steps towards it, they didn't wake up one morning and say "Lets go kill millions of people in horrible ways".

Once again, Government is one of the leading causes of death in the world in the last 100 years. How do governments get more and more control of the people they are there to serve, thereby allowing them to murder them easily? They take control little by little, introducing laws that take away rights and power from the people and giving it to the Government. Why? Because it makes sense and the government can do things better since people aren't capable of taking care of themselves. 'The People' know whats best for the country, and the individual is selfish. Ignoring this fact and giving the Government more and more power over the people and their lives is somewhere we very closely mirror Germany and every other oppressive country in the history of the world. Do you really think Hitler thought what he was doing was wrong? I think he honestly believed in what he was doing and that it was right for "the People". A lot of other people obviously believed in it too. People haven't changed a whole lot in the last 60 years(Or less if you count other brutal regimes). Why would anyone think that road is impossible for America or even improbable? Following our constitution would keep this from happening.
Exactly, incrementally you turn into Nazi Germany. Fluoride was used by them for the same reasons they use it now on us here in America.
Don't give me that crap its for teeth. I need to topically apply it for that to work, not ingest it. It makes you passive, its literally a chemical lobotomy of the brain.
Why do you think america is one of the last places using it in municipal water supply. Luckily people and states are using the good ol' constitution to take that away more and more.
Even if it were legitimately used for dental health who is the government to forcibly medicate me?
If you where educated on the subject, you would already know that it shows no proof that there is better teeth statistically between places that do fluoridate their water vs places that do not.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Germany also implemented gun control. They had social welfare/insurance/ect. They pretty much had the entire democrat playbook. In the early 30's they reduced it because the world was collapsing during the Great Depression. They started deciding to give money only to those worth saving. Then they moved it on to those who weren't worth saving were a drain on society and were removed. Nazi Germany did not start and end with Hitler. It began with the individual being unimportant vs "the people". It deteriorated into the people who were dragging society down being disposed of. Even before the Nazi's were in power they were sterilizing retards and undesirables. They went on to turn into forced abortions of people who were genetically ill. This is a major concern with giving the government the ability to control our medical system. Once they decided abortion was ok to deal with those who were potentially genetically defective, the government moved on to get rid of those who were born predating the laws of the 30s.
This all came about under the guise of "progressive health reform".

It isn't like looking in a mirror, but the German people didn't know they were going to be what most consider the most horrible country ever to exist in a few short years. They took baby steps towards it, they didn't wake up one morning and say "Lets go kill millions of people in horrible ways".

Once again, Government is one of the leading causes of death in the world in the last 100 years. How do governments get more and more control of the people they are there to serve, thereby allowing them to murder them easily? They take control little by little, introducing laws that take away rights and power from the people and giving it to the Government. Why? Because it makes sense and the government can do things better since people aren't capable of taking care of themselves. 'The People' know whats best for the country, and the individual is selfish. Ignoring this fact and giving the Government more and more power over the people and their lives is somewhere we very closely mirror Germany and every other oppressive country in the history of the world. Do you really think Hitler thought what he was doing was wrong? I think he honestly believed in what he was doing and that it was right for "the People". A lot of other people obviously believed in it too. People haven't changed a whole lot in the last 60 years(Or less if you count other brutal regimes). Why would anyone think that road is impossible for America or even improbable? Following our constitution would keep this from happening.
lol. wow. I've seen a lot of conservative revisionist history but that takes the cake.

Are you really trying to sell the national socialist workers party in Germany as some Ayn Rand inspired libertarian paradise? Come on now. You can do better than that.

They went even further to the left than we did, and guess what, it worked.
 

deprave

New Member
Fluoride its highly exaggerated both ways, just like radiation, aspetus or anything......one group exagerates how bad it is for you while the other group exaggerates how bad it isn't for you. Id like to think the truth lies somewhere in between as my furthest extreme - if not siding with the 'not really that bad for you crowd' - not really jumping on the fluoride or Germany=USA bandwagon here sorry folks.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
the fluoride conspiracy!

you are too awesome, dude.
Every time I hear someone talk about fluoride in the water as some sort of evil conspiracy I lose my shit.

I grew up on well water with no fluoride in it and the result has been huge dental bills my whole life as did everyone else who lived near me. It's really one of the dumbest things of all time to complain about.
 

deprave

New Member
and with that we have a new ron paul weekly update:

[video=youtube;kFg8gmzXB2A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFg8gmzXB2A[/video]
 
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