Three types of hydro in a small tent on one airpump?

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
These rooted about 3 weeks ago, and I moved them in the tent just two weeks ago! The girls on the right are White Widow. It's hard to beat DWC! All that water keeps things very stable!

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These rooted about 3 weeks ago, and I moved them in the tent just two weeks ago! The girls on the right are White Widow. It's hard to beat DWC! All that water keeps things very stable!

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what brand totes are those?. And I’m definitely convinced that there is no argument if your goal is large yields,...dwc seems to win from what I’ve read. I currently use coco and bubble cloners so the switch should be pretty simple. Thanks for sharing this
 

JSB99

Well-Known Member
what brand totes are those?. And I’m definitely convinced that there is no argument if your goal is large yields,...dwc seems to win from what I’ve read. I currently use coco and bubble cloners so the switch should be pretty simple. Thanks for sharing this
Those are the 27-gallon HDX totes. I painted the yellow lids with grey Plasti-Dip, to black them out. Those yellow lids let in a ton of light, and it's a sure way to speed up unwanted slime, and other organisms. The roots won't like it much either.

If you check out my 2017 Grow thread (link below), you can see more pics of the system. Skip to page 30 or so.
 

Hydrowannabe

Well-Known Member
Those are the 27-gallon HDX totes. I painted the yellow lids with grey Plasti-Dip, to black them out. Those yellow lids let in a ton of light, and it's a sure way to speed up unwanted slime, and other organisms. The roots won't like it much either.

If you check out my 2017 Grow thread (link below), you can see more pics of the system. Skip to page 30 or so.
Great advice bc I use those hdx totes for everything. I will have to check out some plastic dip. Again, thanks for the tips
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Seven years! I like that :)

Ok, I made some good progress today. I may even get it all plumbed tomorrow so I can start cycle testing with the finished totes.

Ok, this is the Meniscus Membrane tote. That pipe in the right side in the bottom is the drain. There will be an elbow on the outside I can rotate from pointing up or down to adjust the water level. This tote wants the water level to just be at the bottom side of the "membrane". For this technique, you do not want standing water inside with the roots. The water will wick up through the membrane to feed the plants. Water will enter on the opposite side via some drip lines feeding from the main air-lift water pump.

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I made a PVC frame to support the membrane (rip-stop nylon) so it will be held nice and flat and tight. The excess fabric laps up the sides of the tote so no roots can get down into the lower area where the nute water will be flowing. The fabric is tacked to the frame with hot glue and folded into the corners to form a fabric box to line the tote.

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Next I put a layer of perlite up to the top of the drain pipe. Thats to allow the water to flow through and wick up at the same time. I then added a layer of poly batting on top of the perlite. That should help with the wicking by increasing the contact area with the membrane.

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This is the membrane 'box' sitting on top of the perlite/batting layer.

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This is all three totes in place and almost finished.

On the left is the ebb/flow tote. In the front is the auto siphon with a protective shield I hope will keep roots out. I can remove the lid and clean it out if needed. The shield is just a plastic container I cut the bottom out of and wrapped with silk screen fabric. I first put down a thin layer of lava rock, then started filling with a mix of lava rock and pipe cutoff's. The pipe cutoffs are hopefully going to allow more room for roots to grow between the rocks. I put a final layer of just lava rock on top. I have to say that washing lava rock is a pain!!!

The center tote is the modified NFT tote. It has a 1/4" slope. There are two layers of the same batting in the bottom. This tote will get a steady, slow supply of water much like the Membrane tote. The water will flow through the batting and the roots will grow into the batting. Refer back to the video I posted earlier. Im doing the same basic thing he did - with changes


The right tote is the Membrane tote.

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Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Ha ha you got real close to my crazy idea ;) too close lol

Iv been a busy bitch havent snapped any pics but the mini mock up will go into bloom in about a week :)

I promise ill try to get some more pics heres a crappy one
They dont look the best cause ive been slacking
But i should have them good enough in a week lol sorry about the blurple
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Obviously when i build the big one it will have a pump and timer for feeds so it doesnt perfectly get bigger towards the drain ;) cool though
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
GMTA? LOL. Very nice!

Are those all the same strain?

How much slope do you have on the tray? I wonder of a shallower slope would help?

Oh wait - are the nutes not flowing constantly? You're feeding by hand at intervals? If so, thats probably why. The water will drain out of the top section first - more so if the tilt is very steep.

Are they all in rock wool cubes too?
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
No mix strains and the tallest strain is evident

Didnt measure but i wanted a slope and i got one;) at least a 1/4 to a half inch i didnt wana make it bow the tray later on

As to the uneven growth
Yea i figured gravity is the culprit

im hand feeding and they are in clone cubes wrappers on. cause i forgot to unwrap them before i labeled it and was stoned

But the concept is technically working the roots definitely are growing in the matting well but they definitely grow in the mat :)
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
See if you can take pics of the roots on a regular basis. It will be very interesting to see how fast and how far they spread, and how thick they get.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
I actually got to get started on the big systems

But im have difficulty deciding between the 2 ideas in my head.

The matting is one idea my other idea involves the root proof membrane going to the fabic section today to look

You said the guy reccomends material shower curtains?
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the fabric type shower curtains should work fine as long as its a poly and not cotton. Trying to find ripstop nylon is going to be tough.
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
More progress.

I got the water distribution manifold installed and adjusted pretty close to the flow rates I want. All three totes are pretty much complete as far as the basic setup and have been cycling for the last hour or so.

The cycle time on the E/F tote is around 10 minutes at the moment. I have had it up to 16 minutes, but the siphon wasnt always tripping reliably. Im going to keep playing with that. I would prefer more like 15 minutes, but Im ok with 10 minutes if it means reliability.

The other two totes both have a steady trickle of water flowing in and out. Its roughly 3.5 gals/hour each.

I did a test of the membrane ability to wick water by placing a small handful of some damp but not wet lava rock on the membrane. Before putting it in, it weighed 50.3 gms. After about 5 minutes they weighed 53.6 gms, so about 3.3 gms of extra water were absorbed. Thats not much, but over a 24 hr period that would add up to about .25 gals. That bit of rock was only covering maybe 5% of the area at most, so that means about 5 gals a day of potential water transfer at least. I think that will be fast enough to keep up with one plants drinking rate.

The mat in the NFT tote stays saturated really well.

So the three totes will have a large spread as far as how much water the roots get. The E/F tote will have the max - approaching DWC levels. The Membrane tote will have the least amount with the roots mostly in air. The NFT will be in the middle somewhere, but closer to the low end.

At the moment, my gut feeling is the NFT tent is going to win, but we will see.

Here are some more pics.

The pipe coming up from below in the bottom left of this pic is the air-lift pump. The water runs to the 'T' in the back. Most of it goes into the E/F tote on the left, but some flows to the right and into the other two totes through small holes - two in each tote. There is also a lot of air flowing with the water, which goes into all three totes. In addition, there is a cutout between each tote that goes down to under the work bench. That means the air pump is constantly supplying fresh air and the totes can get fresh air from below every time the E/F cycles.

Im going to be wrapping all the totes in 1" insulation on the sides and top to seal them off from the grow tent.

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This is a pic under the work bench showing all the lines draining into the rez from the totes above. The rez is raised up off the floor about 14 inches. Just enough to get a 5 gal square bucket under the drain spout. The second pic shows the 3" PVC pipe that forms the pumping chamber. It holds the air-lift pump. You can see the hose connecting it to the rez.

If I had done a better job of pre-planning and visualization, things would have ended up much neater. I dont really care as long as it works.
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Its hard to see, but this shot shows the meniscus forming at the bottom of that small piece of PVC pipe.

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
I almost forgot - I changed my setup for roiling the rez and simplified it. I have 4 of these running in the rez. I'll put one in each corner to keep things stirred up and aerated.

I know, they look really lame, but they work really well, so I dont care
They roil the water very well without using too much air - and the best part is they cost about 5 cents to make. All they are is airline couplers with one end smashed down and mostly blocked off so there is only a small hole for the air to get through. I then zip-tied them to a piece of lava rock to keep them on the bottom of the rez.
 

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Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Id say which ever stays wetter is going to win just by my system observations

Plus if you dump mostly in the e/f you would think it would "filter" out some nites before it hit the nft set ups .

Who knows
 

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Tent tarps might be too water proof. Water only gets through tent fabric if you touch it. I think they are treated with extra silicone water repellents or something like that. Might be hard to get that stuff out of the fabric. Id stick with shower fabric.

Id say which ever stays wetter is going to win just by my system observations

Plus if you dump mostly in the e/f you would think it would "filter" out some nites before it hit the nft set ups .

Who knows

As far as filtering out nutes, I dont think that will be a problem. The water comes out of the rez, then to the air-lift pump, then goes into the manifold and gets divided between the three totes. So each tote gets its own separate feed from the rez water. It doesnt run through one and then into the others. After it comes out of each tote, it drains back to the rez and will get mixed all together again by the airstones. Each tote will get the exact same nutes at the exact same PH, temp, etc.

If the wetter one is going to win, that would be the E/F tote for sure. Im still betting on the NFT/mat to win.

I actually hope it does. That setup is the easiest, cheapest one to put together by far. The only even remotely tricky part is going to be keeping the roots out of the drain. When your done with the grow, just toss the used mat/batting and start over.

With the E/F tote, you have to wash that dam lava rock or what ever other medium you use, mess with a siphon, etc. Then when the grow is done, you're going to have to buy more medium or go through the trouble of cleaning it.

The Membrane tote is even worse with the membrane, perlite, batting, etc. Lots more work to set up and adjust things just so. Lots of fiddling with small details. Not that any of it is really hard, but it takes time.

If all three are even vaguely close as far as performance, Im going to be doing the NFT/mat thing from now on. Its just too easy and cheap.
 

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
Oh i see now
yes if they each have a feed line no need to worry about the e/f stealing all the nutes like a biofilter lol

Hopefully the nft pulls through


I hear ya on the tent tarps being water proofed but im pretty sure you can buy the ripstop material untreated but i have not looked hard yet as i still have a few weeks before i can build the big guy

I will let out a small spoiler

and say the pvc frame design in your membrane tote is real close to the idea i have .. just used in a completely different way....

I commend you as i would not have even tried all that perlite he he but without teying we will never know

But for my test i literally only need a yard of material so im going to hit joannes fabrics tomorrow.

Im actually glad we've had this discussion
Because it got my wheels turning.

I have been looking online trying to see if anyone had done what i intend to do and i have not found any yet

Which there is little info on meniscus membrane techniques period so this is uncharted waters

I hope the new setup will be like uncharted space ;)

although my new system design may use an air pump as well as a water pump they will be tiny compared to my rdwc set up and hopefully optional
 
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