Doer
Well-Known Member
Stick with HID and learn how to transport heat.
Total Noob...Appreciate your thoughts
- Thread starter SSS2015
- Start date
If i use led's, then I can reduce the heat. in the grow box?
can you post some pics of your setup? or a link to something similar? i'm sorry but I'm not good at picturing this stuff yet, so a lot of what you said went straight over my head.
You're using 10 gallon pots? I don't have the space to use 10 gallon pots, I've only got 1.65m tall space. worked out it's 13 sq feet.
what's a stack? and a feed emitter? rings to feed buckets?
So you're using a medium to grow in (coco coir and hydroton 50/50), the pots are hanging above the reservoir, so are the roots, you've got a pump driving nutrient water into your pots, and the water drains through the pot, down the roots, into the reservoir?
don't the roots get dry hanging out of water?
I'd prefer to do this, however the heat is killing me.
If i build two boxes, flowering and veging, then I need two lights, and 2 exhausts.
Is it possible to build an exhaust that will service both boxes? is that even advisable?
Bear in mind I'm planning on growing in a box, in a shed. The heat needs to be transported out of the shed, which is a challenge.
i'm grateful for all your thoughts guys thank you very much.
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
If you have a good fan (us$150 ) and a good scrubber (us$80) you can pull the heat out no problem, especially if you get a sealed hood/reflector (price depending). If you go HID go with 600.
what are day and night temps? Spend your money wisely now for 2 reasons.
1) so you don't have to update as much and you can spend time dialing in your system
2) You dont want to go through MONTHS of work and time and money just to get sub par results.
It's one thing if your goal is to do a super cheap ghetto grow and see what's the least amount of money you can spend while scrapping together parts and diying everything. It's another if you want to set up a quality grow room that will continue to pay off. I guess it depends on what your motivations are.
what are day and night temps? Spend your money wisely now for 2 reasons.
1) so you don't have to update as much and you can spend time dialing in your system
2) You dont want to go through MONTHS of work and time and money just to get sub par results.
It's one thing if your goal is to do a super cheap ghetto grow and see what's the least amount of money you can spend while scrapping together parts and diying everything. It's another if you want to set up a quality grow room that will continue to pay off. I guess it depends on what your motivations are.
Doer
Well-Known Member
It is physics. It's all calculation. But, there are some simple rules.
Short runs, few bends, insulated exhaust and intake tubes.
The more air you move in Cubic Feet per Minute, the faster the better.
Don't try to push in air, pull it out with big exhaust fans
Keep your box ventilation and light cooling separate
And sure a light in each box, given you have the room, can be linked with air runs in a chain. The more air you move the faster the better.
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tightpockt
Well-Known Member
You can get a 315cmh and grow vertical like a boss!
Guys I'm grateful. can you please link me up? help me build my shopping list.
what is a 315cmh? where can I get cheap insulated ducting?
I do want this to be a 1 time set up. I'm hoping that I won't need to upgrade for 5 years, hence my $1000 au budget.
Sounds like i'm going 600w hid's x 2, one for veg running HPS bulbs and the other for flowering MH bulbs.
Guys is THIS a good unit to buy?
Also there are links to scrubbers, fans, humidity checkers etc. Help me out guys, are any of these worth buying?
I'm going to read the LED thread to see if self assembly is something i can explore, I have a friend who is an electrician. But I'm heavily leaning towards HID.
Can you lads please help me out with my shopping list? once i have a complete list I can rearrange to suit budget. I'll need some of the $1000 for building the box, buying seeds and buying pots.
Some people have suggested growing several plants at once in that space, up to 4 or 5. Others have suggested fewer plants and more plant training. I have a space issue, especially when using HID's, with only 1.65m tall, so I am leaning towards autoflowering or short breeds, and growing two plants.
I am very interested in building my own DWC system. I'm sorta leaning towards this with 2 plants per space, and trying to train the plants to grow bushy.
I'm so grateful to you all. thanks heaps
marquezmurder
Well-Known Member
Hey buddy, noticed you have been doing your research. Here is my thoughts
1. Shed is bad security and pest management. Im not sure as to why you would use a shed vs a closet. on top of the fact that if its not already powered with a 20amp service, you will have to install one, no ghetto extension cables to short out new equip.
2. If you have 1.65m height, use it all for flower room. Why? Because you only need a 2x2x2 space with a t5 to grow your seedlings. Why not keep it seperate?
3. Read uncle bens topping technique for4 main colas and read up on scrogging, this way your veg plant is no more than 30cm from the top of the container to the scrog. Keeping it nice and low.
4. I personally use soil so i dont have to worry about resivors gunking up, water temperature fluxuation, or and mechanical failure, pumps ect. Less is more for someone who cant dedicate a lot of time. Growing good buds is no press play walk away sort of thing.
@tightpockt , nice suggestion of soiless media, my buddy uses coco and loves it
5. Roll of dual sides poly $50(for sealing off inside of shed.
Staple gun and duct tape $30
soil for 2 10 gal smartpots w/pots $70
ph test kit w/ up and down $20
1 mh/hps 600w air cooled hoodkit $180 w/both bulbs
1 t5 w/fixture $70
2 6" 440cfm fans w/ srubber $260
25ft 6" insulated ducting $35
I use age old organics grow,bloom,humicacid, and fish kelp. The bottles are 32oz and about $20EA. As well as humboldts myco madness tea, also 20ish.
Expensive doesnt always mean good in the nute line, especially if it requires you use all parts to make it work correctly.
im not dissing hydro, but you can get the same sort of fast delivery systems naturally in soil, its all about learning how it works. A local veganic grower taught me a few things about sprout teas. Another brother of mine taught me how to activate my roots growth and uptake with mycs,trichodermas,bactillius. A kelp spray to help with uptake.
Also soil is more forgiving in case there is user error like over nutes.
I dont want to say your idea isnt possible, but if your looking for something will give you a little less problems, its soil or soiless media like coco. Actually now that i think of it i believe coco has a nutrient value of 1-0-0, if i read right somewhere here on rollitup.
I also kept in consideration that its about .35cents per kw/h in most Australia. Part of the reason i wouldnt run 2 light/hydro setups if your trying to make your money back in green buds.
If you had a little more to spend i would look into the bml spyder 600. You'd have to save up your cookiejar, but heat wouldnt be a problem, and over all decreasing the amount of needed energy to your shed. My calculations for my grow area, it would pay itself back in a year, seeing as i would need 2 of the 1200 series.
please get back to me, id love to help youget started. Take a few deep breaths,... then light one up.
dude. Thank you.
Just popped inside from the shed...i currently use it as my office. found this.
1. Shed is all i've got. It's in the back of a backyard, houses all around it, fairly good fences, with a big gate out the side of it blocking entry from the front. The idea was to build a closet inside the shed to prevent bugs, but then i have to modify the shed to vent the hot air. possibly also the fresh air, I plan on making both the boxes and the shed lockable.
2. I have 1.65m of Height, won't some of that be taken up by the hoodkit? limiting how tall my plants will grow (which you've addressed in point 3).
3. Will do
4. I hear you. I'm officially flip flopping. I'll let go of the whole hydroponics thing for a while. I think i'll go with the soil less medium. Thank tightpockt, MM and Chester.
In point 5 you mention the roll of dual sided poly. That's just plastic right? no reflective quality? are you suggesting I build the room out of poly? in the shed? it's damn galvanised shed so staples would be useless unless I built a frame to pin the poly to. What about that mylar stuff? found some on amazon. Lastly the reason I wanted to build a box was to avoid pests, I don't trust the shed's integrity.
http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Reflective-Mylar-Roll/dp/B00725XBGG/ref=pd_sim_lg_50?ie=UTF8&refRID=05V4WRMWCCXMHTEZED9K
If I'm using a medium like coco coir and perlite or something else, I'll need a bunch to fill those 10 gallon smart pots. Will i still need pots that size for my space? won't they limit the height of my plant? again that comes back to training the plant right? can I use a 10 gallon pot to transplant my clones into? and can the medium be reused?
ok so I found some pots. can I have your opinion please?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6L-9L-12L-21L-37L-47L-74L-100L-Soft-Durable-Fabric-Reusable-Plant-Smart-Pot-/331454865597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item4d2c3fe0bd
the ph test, is that the paper one?
If I'm using the 600w HID, why both bulbs? aren't MH better for flowering? HPS for Veging?
or are the T5 lights only for clones? i.e. then I switch them out to the flowering room, and vege them for a few weeks before turning them over to flowering? will the height of my room dictate how long I vege the plants for?
Will the cloning box need a 440cfm fan with a scrubber? why are we buying 2 fans? will it be possible to build an exhaust system that takes care of both boxes with one scrubber and fan? i found an insulation Y connector below:
http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-air-Branch-Ducting-Connector-Fitting/dp/B002JLGF2A/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1425354107&sr=1-1&keywords=Ideal-air+Wye+Branch+Ducting+Y+Connector+Fitting
Heaps grateful.
Just popped inside from the shed...i currently use it as my office. found this.
MM I'm just gonna address your points individually.
1. Shed is all i've got. It's in the back of a backyard, houses all around it, fairly good fences, with a big gate out the side of it blocking entry from the front. The idea was to build a closet inside the shed to prevent bugs, but then i have to modify the shed to vent the hot air. possibly also the fresh air, I plan on making both the boxes and the shed lockable.
2. I have 1.65m of Height, won't some of that be taken up by the hoodkit? limiting how tall my plants will grow (which you've addressed in point 3).
3. Will do
4. I hear you. I'm officially flip flopping. I'll let go of the whole hydroponics thing for a while. I think i'll go with the soil less medium. Thank tightpockt, MM and Chester.
So you think rather than 2 boxes the same size, I should build one larger flowering box (maybe 1.2m by 1.5m by 1.65m) under 600w HID, and one small cloning/veging box under the T5...is that about right? save a bunch on electricity, and halve my heat problem.
In point 5 you mention the roll of dual sided poly. That's just plastic right? no reflective quality? are you suggesting I build the room out of poly? in the shed? it's damn galvanised shed so staples would be useless unless I built a frame to pin the poly to. What about that mylar stuff? found some on amazon. Lastly the reason I wanted to build a box was to avoid pests, I don't trust the shed's integrity.
http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Duty-Reflective-Mylar-Roll/dp/B00725XBGG/ref=pd_sim_lg_50?ie=UTF8&refRID=05V4WRMWCCXMHTEZED9K
If I'm using a medium like coco coir and perlite or something else, I'll need a bunch to fill those 10 gallon smart pots. Will i still need pots that size for my space? won't they limit the height of my plant? again that comes back to training the plant right? can I use a 10 gallon pot to transplant my clones into? and can the medium be reused?
ok so I found some pots. can I have your opinion please?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6L-9L-12L-21L-37L-47L-74L-100L-Soft-Durable-Fabric-Reusable-Plant-Smart-Pot-/331454865597?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item4d2c3fe0bd
the ph test, is that the paper one?
If I'm using the 600w HID, why both bulbs? aren't MH better for flowering? HPS for Veging?
or are the T5 lights only for clones? i.e. then I switch them out to the flowering room, and vege them for a few weeks before turning them over to flowering? will the height of my room dictate how long I vege the plants for?
Will the cloning box need a 440cfm fan with a scrubber? why are we buying 2 fans? will it be possible to build an exhaust system that takes care of both boxes with one scrubber and fan? i found an insulation Y connector below:
http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-air-Branch-Ducting-Connector-Fitting/dp/B002JLGF2A/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1425354107&sr=1-1&keywords=Ideal-air+Wye+Branch+Ducting+Y+Connector+Fitting
Heaps grateful.
marquezmurder
Well-Known Member
Galvenizes shed, I see why you would build boxes in it. So yes 1 big flower box and 1 small t5 cloner box.
Im now saying 5 or 7 gal smartpots cause your space.
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Pots-7-Gallon-Soft-Sided-Container/dp/B0055E8RUG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425394017&sr=8-2&keywords=smartpots
Dont worry your fan filter and hood are no more than a foot off the roof. I leave a bare min of 3 inches between hood and roof. My hoods are on 9" deep, i suggest you get the cool tube fixture.
http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK600CT24E-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B00521B894/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1425394127&sr=8-4&keywords=cool tube
I would veg with mh, and flower with hps.
the reason i said the dual fans and filters is because your going to want even exchange of air. You can also make a passive vent that leeks no light down bottom and just have your evac fan. I would buy a 240cfm inline for 20$ on amazon for your lights exhaust fan.
Im now saying 5 or 7 gal smartpots cause your space.
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Pots-7-Gallon-Soft-Sided-Container/dp/B0055E8RUG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425394017&sr=8-2&keywords=smartpots
Dont worry your fan filter and hood are no more than a foot off the roof. I leave a bare min of 3 inches between hood and roof. My hoods are on 9" deep, i suggest you get the cool tube fixture.
http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK600CT24E-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B00521B894/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1425394127&sr=8-4&keywords=cool tube
I would veg with mh, and flower with hps.
the reason i said the dual fans and filters is because your going to want even exchange of air. You can also make a passive vent that leeks no light down bottom and just have your evac fan. I would buy a 240cfm inline for 20$ on amazon for your lights exhaust fan.
Doer
Well-Known Member
Do you have to be stealthy inside the shed?
I would take, 2 inch foam board and coat the inside of the shed to stabilize the environment. Tape that together, for air tight. White, insulated walls and ceiling are the result.
Then the shed is your Bloom area, since it has the tall roof. In there you put a Veg tent, you have to insulate that.
Now you pull in vent air with a shed exhaust fan, and the tent has an exhust fan, also. Those join up so both create a big exhaust of the Veg and Bloom areas. You want your Veg warmer and more humid than Bloom, so a tent will let you control that.
Then you can use a shelf with a light and a blanket for covering the light from the Bloom area at night, to do cloning on.
I would take, 2 inch foam board and coat the inside of the shed to stabilize the environment. Tape that together, for air tight. White, insulated walls and ceiling are the result.
Then the shed is your Bloom area, since it has the tall roof. In there you put a Veg tent, you have to insulate that.
Now you pull in vent air with a shed exhaust fan, and the tent has an exhust fan, also. Those join up so both create a big exhaust of the Veg and Bloom areas. You want your Veg warmer and more humid than Bloom, so a tent will let you control that.
Then you can use a shelf with a light and a blanket for covering the light from the Bloom area at night, to do cloning on.
marquezmurder
Well-Known Member
You can use a small computer fan for the clone box, i forgot to elaborate. One fan to blow fresh air into the room through crbn filter, one to evac w/filter for obvious reasons. Intake filter is for pests and spores. Like i said though you can just buy one, then a small booster fan for the light since they need different exhaust systems to cut down on heat.
yes the box for clones, if you can make one big enough to fit 1 gallon pots in there with the seedling clone, do it. This way you can get a rooted 1 gallon before transplanting to your 5 or 7. I would veg them under the scrog, weaving n.s.e.w, untill they about touch all walls, then make the flip. Your gonna have 2 weeks of veg growth before they start to for bus sites after the switch, assuming your doing photperiod plants not autos.
the ph test kit for your water
http://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-GH1514-Control-Kit/dp/B000BNKWZY/ref=pd_sim_lg_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RCSDE577ZJK4ZYTD119
oh and the poly, right your building a frame inside the shed, cover it with this, its 90% reflective with wrinkles. Mylar is trash once it wrinkles up, unless your dying of hypothermia.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-White-Poly-Film-5-5/dp/B000I2ZXQG/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1425395712&sr=1-1&keywords=plastic+white+black
yes the box for clones, if you can make one big enough to fit 1 gallon pots in there with the seedling clone, do it. This way you can get a rooted 1 gallon before transplanting to your 5 or 7. I would veg them under the scrog, weaving n.s.e.w, untill they about touch all walls, then make the flip. Your gonna have 2 weeks of veg growth before they start to for bus sites after the switch, assuming your doing photperiod plants not autos.
the ph test kit for your water
http://www.amazon.com/General-Hydroponics-GH1514-Control-Kit/dp/B000BNKWZY/ref=pd_sim_lg_5?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RCSDE577ZJK4ZYTD119
oh and the poly, right your building a frame inside the shed, cover it with this, its 90% reflective with wrinkles. Mylar is trash once it wrinkles up, unless your dying of hypothermia.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-White-Poly-Film-5-5/dp/B000I2ZXQG/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1425395712&sr=1-1&keywords=plastic+white+black
Doer
Well-Known Member
LED won't grow pot. It is all about watts per square foot, and not fancy frequency with no watts.
I don't care what you LED boys think, so don't bother. I know the physics
and I know marketing. LEDs are trying marketing to force Physics. Good luck.
Fair enough Doer. I think LED's are too expensive for my needs at the moment. I think in 5 years when I'm ready to upgrade, they will be very very competitive however and maybe even produce verifiable results.
i looked up foam board and I can get it in 20mm, 2 cm, or just under an inch, in australia. I can get them to cut it to size.
i'll see whether it's a viable option instead of a wooden box lined with that poly stuff....i still need help getting over not using a box...i'm sure the pests will get in.
marquezmurder
Well-Known Member
I like the foam idea, take her from here
tightpockt
Well-Known Member
All of those led grows pulling pounds are what...magic?
marquezmurder
Well-Known Member
I wasnt going to say anything tight, but yes it is magic, spectum magic
no time for ignance lol