True HP Aero For 2011
- Thread starter Trichy Bastard
- Start date
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Man, hydroton sounds kinda touchy to me. Plus now you gotta sterilize after the river... I've read that the small 1"-1 1/2" bioballs (weighted non-floating type) worked out well (probably only for bigger netpot situations). I think I am going to just follow Atomizers advice on the rockwool and go from there. I am just finishing up reading g-love's atomix journals over at uk420, and thats what he did- and it looked REAL nice... He probably has more pics posed than any other hp aero guy out there, so it is very inspiring- nothing less than stellar and amazing!
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Do you have to sign up to uk420 to view pics & such? I remember being able to see pics some time ago, unless that was a different g-love thread??? On a side note, I used to think that of hydroton, but was quickly dispelled by serapis, a member on this site. He seemed to know his shit, and was actually pretty pissed that I told someone that hydroton wasn't ph neutral. I used 10" netpots full of the stuff on my first run, and never had any issues. I don't think a handfull would do much.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
It's probably the same g-love, and yes unfortunately like all these sites- gotta make an account and wait to be accepted by the mods till you can search and view pics. I've never used hydroton as it came after my time. Hell I think rockwool was the latest and greatest when I was dabbling as a teen(shit I'm getting old). I'm stiill considering the rockwool and a lil top off with rinsed hydroton unless anyone screams that it's not as good as pure rockwool. Actually g-love was experimenting with additional drip to his cups and less atomization, it was working well until he got damping off. He used a topper of hydroton to stop the damping off in the future grows. I suppose Atomizer's plan of a controlled experiment is the best plan- I'll post results if and when I do it. For now I have all my main components and John Guest tubing on the way- need only to order the john guest adaptor pieces to make it all fit together. I realise this is going to take a little thought as is the final layout of my plumbing setup. I like Cavadge's clean looking "Mr. Mister"- but I might go slightly different for my setup. I can only hope it will be as aesthetically pleasing and professionally done.
-Got a couple new sayings from the limees at 420- it seems referring to dog's testicles means things are awesome. Such as saying "This is the dog's danglies!" or "that's the mutt's nutts!" hehe. Where we'd say "knock on wood" they say "touch wood" (sounds a little x-rated to me- lol) The biggest thing I noted is that people were a bit more intelligent, and also politer to eachother- our forums look like the wild west in comparison.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Ok, I promised a parts list with links, and this is it...
Root chamber: I deliberated the most about this. I concluded this deck bin storage box was ideal because it gives plenty of room for the mist to expand and spread out and had dual-wall construction, so it is inherently insulated with air, and I can drill some holes in which I may spray low expansion polyurethane foam if I find the need for more insulation. As mentioned before- I plan to cut out a root access door on the front for viewing the roots and messing with nozzles as needed without having to lift the whole hinged lid. I plan to drill out 6 staggered net pot sites so they have plenty of room, but in a sog setup could probably fit a bit more sites. The sun in the tropics is 12hrs daylight (perma-equinox) throughout the year with only an hour more or an hour less from summer to winter solstice, so if left only to nature, I will always go straight to bloom outdoors and perhaps the sog setup configuration would be better for my situation, I suppose it's easier to add holes than plug unused ones, so I'll start with less holes. I wonder how this will work out as I've never grown outdoors here before? The floor of this unit is slatted, with each slat butted right up to each other and I'm trying to decide if I should silicone it watertight except for a small drain area, or just let it be and put a liner pan underneath to catch the runoff. I'll figure it out after I see how the mist works in there. The website currently lists it for $114, but my local Home depot has it for $159 (we call this the "paradise tax").
http://www.homedepot.com/Storage-Organization-Sheds-Garages-Outdoor-Storage-Deck-Boxes/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbtz1/R-202046946/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Pump: I opted for a 12v Flojet because I felt it had the best specs and I want the whole system running 12v for safety, and also so that I can use a deep cycle battery (with a trickle charger or perhaps a solar charger?) running everything to keep it reliable regardless of what the electric company here is doing. I went with 150 psi pump because my target pressure to run the system at will be 100 PSI. This will allow roughly 50 psi of stored nutes to be sprayed until the pump recharges the system again. I will use a pressure regulating valve to keep the misters output at a constant 100 psi regardless of the status of the accumulator's charge- as to keep more control over the mist which would change over the draining of the accumulator pressures between 150 down to 100 psi otherwise. Most diaphram pumps in this pressure range are very similar, so it should not matter that much. I have yet to see anyone use a flojet in aero, but Sureflo is common, and I hear the Aquatec 6600 is virtually silent. I will have to report on the sound from this pump after I try it out. I found it by luck for $75 on clearance, but that was a one time deal.
Manufacturer's link and specs: http://ittflowcontrol.com/files/itemdoc11231.pdf
Best price here: (but manufacured to order which takes 4 weeks): http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/7462
Average price, but they have it in stock as well as hundreds of other pumps here- this site could come in handy in the future: http://www.wholesalepumps.com/index.php?p=product&id=228&parent=8
Accumulator: Most are rated for 80-125 psi unless you wanna spend big bucks. This one I happened across was a no brainer as they sported some of the cheapest prices around, and it is actually rated for max 150 psi. No other regular accumulators were rated this high, so it's the dog's danglies! They are steel tanks coated inside with plastic to resist the nutes and rusting, and have the typical bladder arrangement. They're actually designed as thermal expansion tanks that also double to use as accumulators, and this is why they are designed for the higher pressures. It is fair to note that anything smaller than the 10.3 gallon tank is designed to hang upside down by the pipe by which it's connected to- not what I wanted for this arrangement. The larger ones (10.3 gal. and up) are manufactured with a metal ring stand on the bottom and designed to sit upright like a bbq propane tank- perfect for this project. They also are running a deal on a 30 gallon model for only $200usd- not bad! That larger size would allow me to run a week or more without the pump running, but I figure I might be playing around with the nute ec levels a bit to start and don't want to bother with draining the many gallons of pressurized nutes back into the reservoir constantly. More than one tank can be easily added in series, so I can always upgrade or add on later if I need. I should still go a couple days or so between the pump coming on with the 10.3 gal. and that's fine by me.
Here is the whole lineup, (I got the ST-25v for the record): http://www.pexsupply.com/THERM-X-TROL-Tanks-354000
Pressure Switch: Well, the pump I bought comes with it's own pressure switch. I hear that the pressure switches that come with the pumps are low quality and besides being innaccurate, will probably not last very many cycles. The deadband (the range between cut in and cut out pressures) was also quite large and unadjustable (cut in 95 psi/cut out 150 psi). I was looking to cut the wires off of the pump's switch and route them to this (hopefully) better quality external switch that meets my needs. I would prefer to set the cut in pressure at 110 psi (10 psi above the regulated pressure to the nozzles)- and cut out at 140 psi (10 psi less that the accumulators max safe operating pressure for safety- and hopefully to not completely stress out the bladder to it's max constantly). This one by Dwyer I am not sure about the quality, but it was quite a bit cheaper than some of the $100+ models and claims accuracy of +/- 5psi.
http://www.amazon.com/Water-pressure-switch-35-150-2-4-10-3/dp/B00481QFQK
Pressure Gauge: I wanted to always know what the unregulated pressure in the accumulator was before the pressure regulator, so I'd know where the accumulator stood in terms of charge and also to make sure the pressure switch was indeed functioning properly. I decided to go with an oil filled model because the needle will be alot less jumpy during pump times. It reads up to 160 psi and I'm not bothering a link because it's simple enough and any gauge capable of the correct pressures that's rated for fluids will do.- I paid $12 for it on Ebay.
Pressure Regulating Valve: As mentioned above, I opted to add this piece to keep the misters always operating at 100 psi. It is stainless construction, adjustable from 0-150 psi and includes a pressure gauge to display what the new regulated pressure is adjusted to. Conveniently enough, it has a 1/4" john guest output. I am also not including the link, but it's simple enough to find a suitable one. I found it on Ebay for $35.
Pressure Release Valve: Since the accumulator is like a bomb and will explode if overpressurized by the pump in case of a pressure switch failure, this little piece is of major safety importance! The one I found was stainless construction, and adjustable up to 150 psi (where I will probably set it). It has an output port where I could route the blow off pressure back to the res, but I don't plan on it ever cracking open unless in a pressure switch failure- where the bleed off will be the least of my problems. I guess I'll route it back to the res nonetheless, just incase it does happen to go off continuously while I'm away and then my nutes will not run dry and all the plants die. I found it on Ebay for $13- very cheap insurance... It's fair to note that the PRVs with the metal pull lever made specifically for hot water tanks are not ideal in this situation. Get one with an adjustable screw.
Tubing: I have read that John Guest (flexible PEX tubing like what's used on reverse osmosis systems) is by far the best way to go for this project. PVC is too large a diameter and strectches too much under pressure. John guest tubing is rated for 230 psi at 70f degrees and is very simple to connect and disconnet via their pushfit speed connections. The tube is also not rigid like pvc and can be flexed and curved in the run as needed. I am using 1/4" diameter throughout since the flowrate for this project is quite low, and at the nozzles I will have more control of the dripping with a smaller pipe size. I hear I can run quite a bit of nozzles off just this diameter, but someone with more needs may choose to run the 3/8" diameter or bigger up to a manifold or solenoid, and size down to 1/4" after each solenoid up to the nozzles. I opted for the black because it is the only one that is UV stabilised, and mine will be in the sunlight. I'd rather use white for heat reasons, but not cracking in the sun is probably more important. In either case I may cover them with a conduit anyway- if I need to cool the solution just before it gets sprayed. It's fairly cheap @0.20/foot, but I happened to find a plumber on Ebay selling an assortment of leftover 10- 15 foot lengths (200 feet total) for a mere $12. That should be enough for all my future hp projects for years to come.
Timer: There are a few options out there. Because control is one of the most important aspects of this type of growing, a good timer capable of a resolution of 1/10th seconds is ideal. Those art-dne timers are not recommended as I've heard too many complaints of them failing, and I do not believe they go down to anything less than 1 second. The Sentinel DRT-1 timer also has bad reviews and besides only being capable of 1 second increments, it's reported to not be very accurate at the 1 second level anyway. I have been told that the ATC 422 flip flop timer works great and seems to last, so that's what I went with. It is available in any standard ac/or dc voltage too. There is an octal base needed to mount it, so don't forget that as well (listed at the bottom of the same page). Timer: $91 Base: $6
http://www.iseincstore.com/422_timer.aspx
Solenoids: There are a ton of options and a huge price range. What we are looking for here is a solenoid that matches the voltage you'd like to run in your system (12v dc in my case), can withstand the regulated system pressures, and is "normally closed" (meaning it only opens when the timer sends voltage to it momentarily for the spray). I went with a cheaper option and hope I am not disappointed. I opted to get 1 solenoid for each nozzle because the longer the tube run between the two, the more chance for expansion issues where the nozzle will spit and drip before and after misting cycles. Here is what I found for 14.99/ea:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-4-Plastic-12VDC-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Water-Air-/140521315257?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b7b91bb9
Nozzles: There are alot of choices out there. And for varying needs your choice may be different. tree farmer recommends bio controls as he seems to get some very good results with them, so who am I to do different? These are an impingement style nozzle that breaks up the water stream when it hits a small pin attached to the outdside of the nozzle. They are plastic and very low flow. I think I'll need 6-8 for my chamber, so I will just order 10 to be safe, as tree farmer also mentioned that about 1 of 10 have a bad spray pattern due to errors in manufactuing. They are $9.99 for a set of two nozzles.
http://www.biocontrols.com/secure/shop/item.aspx?itemid=85
Misc: Other things I'll need are:
1) A reservoir- just about anything that holds water will do. The daily throughput of my system should only be a couple gallons, so 5-10 gal size should suffice. I may chose to use an ice chest to keep the nutes cooler in the daytime temps- and perhaps an air pump/powerhead just to keep it from stagnating. (The plants will recieve all their necessary DO from the air in the rootchamber).
2) All of the John Guest fittings and adaptors, valves and tees for all the plumbing. They are not exactly cheap at $3.50/pc for a JG tee, and may add up. But I'll happily pay for the convenience they offer as opposed to other options.
3) I will also need some wiring for the electronics and crimp on connectors, the wood to build a box for all of the main plumbing and timer controlls, and some silkscreen/capillary mat to suspend in the bottom of the chamber suspended to keep the roots out of the drainoff. I'd estimate these parts to cost $150 or so.
Root chamber: $159
Pump: $75
Accumulator: $106
Pressure Switch: $29
Pressure gauge (for the unregulated accumulator side): $12
Pressure Regulating Valve w/ pressure gauge: $35
Pressure release safety valve: $13
John guest Tubing 1/4": $12
Timer/base: $97
Solenoids: $120
Nozzles: $50
Misc: $150
-Cost for a pimp ass aero system? -PRICELESS!
Hehe ok- so grand total for me is: $858 (plus whatever shipping charges)
It's not the cheapest route, but remember it's more FUN, yeilds better growth in a shorter amount of time, is easier to run once dialed in and will eventually save you alot of money in nutes!
Phew, that was alot of work, I hope it helps someone out to understand what this system needs and the rough estimate of costs.
Root chamber: I deliberated the most about this. I concluded this deck bin storage box was ideal because it gives plenty of room for the mist to expand and spread out and had dual-wall construction, so it is inherently insulated with air, and I can drill some holes in which I may spray low expansion polyurethane foam if I find the need for more insulation. As mentioned before- I plan to cut out a root access door on the front for viewing the roots and messing with nozzles as needed without having to lift the whole hinged lid. I plan to drill out 6 staggered net pot sites so they have plenty of room, but in a sog setup could probably fit a bit more sites. The sun in the tropics is 12hrs daylight (perma-equinox) throughout the year with only an hour more or an hour less from summer to winter solstice, so if left only to nature, I will always go straight to bloom outdoors and perhaps the sog setup configuration would be better for my situation, I suppose it's easier to add holes than plug unused ones, so I'll start with less holes. I wonder how this will work out as I've never grown outdoors here before? The floor of this unit is slatted, with each slat butted right up to each other and I'm trying to decide if I should silicone it watertight except for a small drain area, or just let it be and put a liner pan underneath to catch the runoff. I'll figure it out after I see how the mist works in there. The website currently lists it for $114, but my local Home depot has it for $159 (we call this the "paradise tax").
http://www.homedepot.com/Storage-Organization-Sheds-Garages-Outdoor-Storage-Deck-Boxes/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbtz1/R-202046946/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
Pump: I opted for a 12v Flojet because I felt it had the best specs and I want the whole system running 12v for safety, and also so that I can use a deep cycle battery (with a trickle charger or perhaps a solar charger?) running everything to keep it reliable regardless of what the electric company here is doing. I went with 150 psi pump because my target pressure to run the system at will be 100 PSI. This will allow roughly 50 psi of stored nutes to be sprayed until the pump recharges the system again. I will use a pressure regulating valve to keep the misters output at a constant 100 psi regardless of the status of the accumulator's charge- as to keep more control over the mist which would change over the draining of the accumulator pressures between 150 down to 100 psi otherwise. Most diaphram pumps in this pressure range are very similar, so it should not matter that much. I have yet to see anyone use a flojet in aero, but Sureflo is common, and I hear the Aquatec 6600 is virtually silent. I will have to report on the sound from this pump after I try it out. I found it by luck for $75 on clearance, but that was a one time deal.
Manufacturer's link and specs: http://ittflowcontrol.com/files/itemdoc11231.pdf
Best price here: (but manufacured to order which takes 4 weeks): http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/7462
Average price, but they have it in stock as well as hundreds of other pumps here- this site could come in handy in the future: http://www.wholesalepumps.com/index.php?p=product&id=228&parent=8
Accumulator: Most are rated for 80-125 psi unless you wanna spend big bucks. This one I happened across was a no brainer as they sported some of the cheapest prices around, and it is actually rated for max 150 psi. No other regular accumulators were rated this high, so it's the dog's danglies! They are steel tanks coated inside with plastic to resist the nutes and rusting, and have the typical bladder arrangement. They're actually designed as thermal expansion tanks that also double to use as accumulators, and this is why they are designed for the higher pressures. It is fair to note that anything smaller than the 10.3 gallon tank is designed to hang upside down by the pipe by which it's connected to- not what I wanted for this arrangement. The larger ones (10.3 gal. and up) are manufactured with a metal ring stand on the bottom and designed to sit upright like a bbq propane tank- perfect for this project. They also are running a deal on a 30 gallon model for only $200usd- not bad! That larger size would allow me to run a week or more without the pump running, but I figure I might be playing around with the nute ec levels a bit to start and don't want to bother with draining the many gallons of pressurized nutes back into the reservoir constantly. More than one tank can be easily added in series, so I can always upgrade or add on later if I need. I should still go a couple days or so between the pump coming on with the 10.3 gal. and that's fine by me.
Here is the whole lineup, (I got the ST-25v for the record): http://www.pexsupply.com/THERM-X-TROL-Tanks-354000
Pressure Switch: Well, the pump I bought comes with it's own pressure switch. I hear that the pressure switches that come with the pumps are low quality and besides being innaccurate, will probably not last very many cycles. The deadband (the range between cut in and cut out pressures) was also quite large and unadjustable (cut in 95 psi/cut out 150 psi). I was looking to cut the wires off of the pump's switch and route them to this (hopefully) better quality external switch that meets my needs. I would prefer to set the cut in pressure at 110 psi (10 psi above the regulated pressure to the nozzles)- and cut out at 140 psi (10 psi less that the accumulators max safe operating pressure for safety- and hopefully to not completely stress out the bladder to it's max constantly). This one by Dwyer I am not sure about the quality, but it was quite a bit cheaper than some of the $100+ models and claims accuracy of +/- 5psi.
http://www.amazon.com/Water-pressure-switch-35-150-2-4-10-3/dp/B00481QFQK
Pressure Gauge: I wanted to always know what the unregulated pressure in the accumulator was before the pressure regulator, so I'd know where the accumulator stood in terms of charge and also to make sure the pressure switch was indeed functioning properly. I decided to go with an oil filled model because the needle will be alot less jumpy during pump times. It reads up to 160 psi and I'm not bothering a link because it's simple enough and any gauge capable of the correct pressures that's rated for fluids will do.- I paid $12 for it on Ebay.
Pressure Regulating Valve: As mentioned above, I opted to add this piece to keep the misters always operating at 100 psi. It is stainless construction, adjustable from 0-150 psi and includes a pressure gauge to display what the new regulated pressure is adjusted to. Conveniently enough, it has a 1/4" john guest output. I am also not including the link, but it's simple enough to find a suitable one. I found it on Ebay for $35.
Pressure Release Valve: Since the accumulator is like a bomb and will explode if overpressurized by the pump in case of a pressure switch failure, this little piece is of major safety importance! The one I found was stainless construction, and adjustable up to 150 psi (where I will probably set it). It has an output port where I could route the blow off pressure back to the res, but I don't plan on it ever cracking open unless in a pressure switch failure- where the bleed off will be the least of my problems. I guess I'll route it back to the res nonetheless, just incase it does happen to go off continuously while I'm away and then my nutes will not run dry and all the plants die. I found it on Ebay for $13- very cheap insurance... It's fair to note that the PRVs with the metal pull lever made specifically for hot water tanks are not ideal in this situation. Get one with an adjustable screw.
Tubing: I have read that John Guest (flexible PEX tubing like what's used on reverse osmosis systems) is by far the best way to go for this project. PVC is too large a diameter and strectches too much under pressure. John guest tubing is rated for 230 psi at 70f degrees and is very simple to connect and disconnet via their pushfit speed connections. The tube is also not rigid like pvc and can be flexed and curved in the run as needed. I am using 1/4" diameter throughout since the flowrate for this project is quite low, and at the nozzles I will have more control of the dripping with a smaller pipe size. I hear I can run quite a bit of nozzles off just this diameter, but someone with more needs may choose to run the 3/8" diameter or bigger up to a manifold or solenoid, and size down to 1/4" after each solenoid up to the nozzles. I opted for the black because it is the only one that is UV stabilised, and mine will be in the sunlight. I'd rather use white for heat reasons, but not cracking in the sun is probably more important. In either case I may cover them with a conduit anyway- if I need to cool the solution just before it gets sprayed. It's fairly cheap @0.20/foot, but I happened to find a plumber on Ebay selling an assortment of leftover 10- 15 foot lengths (200 feet total) for a mere $12. That should be enough for all my future hp projects for years to come.
Timer: There are a few options out there. Because control is one of the most important aspects of this type of growing, a good timer capable of a resolution of 1/10th seconds is ideal. Those art-dne timers are not recommended as I've heard too many complaints of them failing, and I do not believe they go down to anything less than 1 second. The Sentinel DRT-1 timer also has bad reviews and besides only being capable of 1 second increments, it's reported to not be very accurate at the 1 second level anyway. I have been told that the ATC 422 flip flop timer works great and seems to last, so that's what I went with. It is available in any standard ac/or dc voltage too. There is an octal base needed to mount it, so don't forget that as well (listed at the bottom of the same page). Timer: $91 Base: $6
http://www.iseincstore.com/422_timer.aspx
Solenoids: There are a ton of options and a huge price range. What we are looking for here is a solenoid that matches the voltage you'd like to run in your system (12v dc in my case), can withstand the regulated system pressures, and is "normally closed" (meaning it only opens when the timer sends voltage to it momentarily for the spray). I went with a cheaper option and hope I am not disappointed. I opted to get 1 solenoid for each nozzle because the longer the tube run between the two, the more chance for expansion issues where the nozzle will spit and drip before and after misting cycles. Here is what I found for 14.99/ea:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-4-Plastic-12VDC-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-Water-Air-/140521315257?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b7b91bb9
Nozzles: There are alot of choices out there. And for varying needs your choice may be different. tree farmer recommends bio controls as he seems to get some very good results with them, so who am I to do different? These are an impingement style nozzle that breaks up the water stream when it hits a small pin attached to the outdside of the nozzle. They are plastic and very low flow. I think I'll need 6-8 for my chamber, so I will just order 10 to be safe, as tree farmer also mentioned that about 1 of 10 have a bad spray pattern due to errors in manufactuing. They are $9.99 for a set of two nozzles.
http://www.biocontrols.com/secure/shop/item.aspx?itemid=85
Misc: Other things I'll need are:
1) A reservoir- just about anything that holds water will do. The daily throughput of my system should only be a couple gallons, so 5-10 gal size should suffice. I may chose to use an ice chest to keep the nutes cooler in the daytime temps- and perhaps an air pump/powerhead just to keep it from stagnating. (The plants will recieve all their necessary DO from the air in the rootchamber).
2) All of the John Guest fittings and adaptors, valves and tees for all the plumbing. They are not exactly cheap at $3.50/pc for a JG tee, and may add up. But I'll happily pay for the convenience they offer as opposed to other options.
3) I will also need some wiring for the electronics and crimp on connectors, the wood to build a box for all of the main plumbing and timer controlls, and some silkscreen/capillary mat to suspend in the bottom of the chamber suspended to keep the roots out of the drainoff. I'd estimate these parts to cost $150 or so.
Root chamber: $159
Pump: $75
Accumulator: $106
Pressure Switch: $29
Pressure gauge (for the unregulated accumulator side): $12
Pressure Regulating Valve w/ pressure gauge: $35
Pressure release safety valve: $13
John guest Tubing 1/4": $12
Timer/base: $97
Solenoids: $120
Nozzles: $50
Misc: $150
-Cost for a pimp ass aero system? -PRICELESS!
Hehe ok- so grand total for me is: $858 (plus whatever shipping charges)
It's not the cheapest route, but remember it's more FUN, yeilds better growth in a shorter amount of time, is easier to run once dialed in and will eventually save you alot of money in nutes!
Phew, that was alot of work, I hope it helps someone out to understand what this system needs and the rough estimate of costs.
hammer21
Well-Known Member
Got to ask do you feel that a timer with less than a second is really needed? Are you putting a solenoid right next to each nozzle? Just trying to understand the reason.
nozzle then 6 or more feet of 1/4" tubing then solenoid you will not get spray until at least a second.
nozzle then 6 or more feet of 1/4" tubing then solenoid you will not get spray until at least a second.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Well, I am trying to have as much control as possible. The higher timer resolution should allow for even more precise control, and they are not completely accurate anyway. So if you have a 1sec timer that is off by a second or so, then you may have just doubled your spray time, whereas you have a 1/10 second timer off by .10 second or so, it will be a lot better. I can probably get away with 1 solenoid for 2 or even 3 nozzles, but the less length of tubing between them and the nozzle, then the less fluid there is that can drip out through the nozzle after the solenoid closes. I suppose I'd just rather err on the overcontrol side than on the under-control side. I gather these fuzzy happy roots are very specific about not being over or underwatered, and if I don't have them fuzzy, I might as well be running LP aero... In my case of a small setup, it's only another 40 bucks or so for extra solenoids- I figure I might as well. Another point I should make is that the setup I listed is capable of driving many more nozzles, so the whole system could be easily expanded by just adding rootchambers, more sprayers and more solenoids- that's all it would take. And just to clarify, I plan to have a solenoid just inches before each and every nozzle right on the outside of the pod...
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Here are the two different ideas I am now considering for net pot placement and nozzle placement. One is with the nozzles in the lid of the chamber pointing down, while the other plan is with the nozzles in the sidewalls pointing in, just a few inches from the top like the Atomix. I am not sure which is better, but perhaps someone else has the best answer?
EDIT: Atomizer tells me the first setup with nozzles in the upper sidewalls is better because of the spray pattern on my biocontrols nozzles. I am happy that this design gets his blessing because I like the idea of the nozzles not being connected to the hinged lid so it will be easier to raise it if necessary- plus the water lines will probably stay a bit cooler not being right on top in the direct sunlight. So- this is my preliminary design model for my rootchamber...
hammer21
Well-Known Member
This what i played with so far 1 nozzle per 6 gallon bucket placed in the bottom facing up with a plastic disc placed about 4 inches above nozzle to prevent HP spray hitting roots the fog will roll around disc up to roots this will also prevent roots from getting blown away and a resting place there will be a 2 inch gap from disc to bucket wall. I use a bulk head fitting with a reducer fitting to screw nozzle in. Also another bulk head fitting for the drain to waste. Also i have a diapharm pump and running my nozzles at at 120 psi. With my set up less than a second will not due
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Hi hammer- From my interpretations of what I've read of other people's experiences, there are a few flaws in your proposed setup. First, a 6 gallon bucket is likely deficient in room for the roots of a plant in hpa not to mention it doesn't allow much room for the mist to float around and expand. Second, you probably don't want a "deflector" because it will cause unwanted changes to the mist. If you have the proper low flow nozzles, the mist at 120 psi should not be coarse or anything but very soft and "foggy". Lastly, you probably want your misters near the top of the bucket, 1) because the roots will tend to grow over the nozzles if they are below and block the spray, and 2) because you need to let gravity pull the mist down and spread it out. I'm not sure what you mean in regards to the previous post talking about the nozzles/solenoids and 6 feet of tubing and a one second delay... The idea is to have the solenoid INCHES from the nozzle, so that when the solenoid triggers the spray INSTANTLY flows through the nozzles at the proper pressures, and also INSTANTLY turns off when they close. This is what gives the necessary control for doing this type or growing. I'd assume you can do just fine with 1 second burts, only altering the pause time to get the environment the correct wetness. The action of the mist will be quite different when the lid is closed versus when open and you looking at it with a breeze blowing in anyhow. I hope you also understand that this is nothing like the normal "wetting" of the roots you'd be looking for in LP aero. All we are trying to do here is provide a slight moisture, and if you see any formed drops on the roots, then you need to back off the misting time and/or extend the pause time. Also if you are basing your timing observations off of cycling the pump on/off for a second, this will be a very big difference than the effect you'll get from getting instant pressure from an accumulator/solenoid setup. I hope this clarifies some stuff for you man, since you're trying to do this with me I just want to make sure you get what is supposed to be going on. I need to close this comment with a reminder that this is somewhat a case of the blind leading the blind as I am just trying to delve into this arena myself, but I have done my homework at least.
hammer21
Well-Known Member
Hello Trichy have yet to put a system in production i still need to play with it some more the deflector works good it only allows a true fog up to the roots the fog has a rolling effect up the walls of the bucket then hits the top and rolls down across the roots and only 50 micron or less reaches the roots. The reason i want to use the buckets is i want to grow bigger plants and save money on a huge container. I will post some pics of my diy controller and parts i have.
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Trichy, awesome job of nailing down every detail. I wouldn't count on that timer shipping anytime soon. Maybe I was just un-lucky, but it took well over a month from the time I ordered it to the time it was on my doorstep. I'd get that ordered first thing. It probably won't make ya feel too good, but that deck box was on sale memorial day weekend for $39.99 I almost bought one just on principal. Can't look at anything without sizing it up for aero projects. 
I don't wanna take anything away from TF & your choice of nozzle, but if you're in home depot you owe it to yourself to buy a 5 pack of the dig nozzles ($5). I was going to run a side by side with the bio's, but realized that I would need 2 timers to do that efficiently. I have decided to remove the bios completely. There's $60 down the drain (potentially). I could find that my choice was wrong, and in that case I will try the bios. These are probably not made from the plastic that resists buildup, but the tips unscrew without removing the entire nozzle. I figure at a buck a piece, I can buy as many as needed. I know that there is no record of anybody using these, but that's why I say buy them, and see for yourself. They don't come threaded, but barbed. 1/4" JG fits over the barb perfectly. No $5 fitting required. They are only rated for 80 psi, but my acc tank is only "tested" to 100 psi. I guess it'll either work, or I'll be screwed. Never know til ya try. I'm still struggling to get clones, but will happily post my results. I've been doing some fine touches in the meantime. Got my refletix for the tops & to wrap the bins, fit a 48 quart cooler for my res. I almost feel complete!
Keep up the good work!
I don't wanna take anything away from TF & your choice of nozzle, but if you're in home depot you owe it to yourself to buy a 5 pack of the dig nozzles ($5). I was going to run a side by side with the bio's, but realized that I would need 2 timers to do that efficiently. I have decided to remove the bios completely. There's $60 down the drain (potentially). I could find that my choice was wrong, and in that case I will try the bios. These are probably not made from the plastic that resists buildup, but the tips unscrew without removing the entire nozzle. I figure at a buck a piece, I can buy as many as needed. I know that there is no record of anybody using these, but that's why I say buy them, and see for yourself. They don't come threaded, but barbed. 1/4" JG fits over the barb perfectly. No $5 fitting required. They are only rated for 80 psi, but my acc tank is only "tested" to 100 psi. I guess it'll either work, or I'll be screwed. Never know til ya try. I'm still struggling to get clones, but will happily post my results. I've been doing some fine touches in the meantime. Got my refletix for the tops & to wrap the bins, fit a 48 quart cooler for my res. I almost feel complete!
Keep up the good work!
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Here's a link to the dig nozzle (purple). They are half the flow rate of the bio. It looks like they do come in threaded configs. I am not kidding, these nozzles DO perform better than the bios. The only question will be how they hold up to clogging.
http://www.digcorp.com/Landscape_Irrigation/137-EXL_Series_Fogger
http://www.digcorp.com/Landscape_Irrigation/137-EXL_Series_Fogger
Hi Mike
TF used those for his low pressure setup, check out post #8 on his hp thread https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html
If you follow that link and search for foggers and you`ll see they are the same DIG Corp nozzles
This will save you some searching, http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/134
Exactly the same nozzles, right down to the barb fitting
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
My bad. They say that they are 60-80 micron, but I think that at higher psi they are smaller. I wonder why he didn't use them in HP? I'm completely sold, so long as I don't have to replace them everyday.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Totally fair man. I figure I will follow the experts to a tee, and put my own touch on things after I see what to expect out of "tried and true". But, who knows, perhaps you'll discover a better way to do things. I'd like to know how you are measuring the microns of your fog, using some mighty fine calipers eh? Hehe, in all seriousness- I am glad to have some other people jumping into this at the same time as me- we can all learn and compare what works and what doesn't- so each of our efforts should help out the collective. Don't know if I could coax you into posting a pic or 2- I'd like to see how the deflector is rigged. Keep it going, it's fun to not be the only one diving into this.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the acknowledgements. Actually if I remember correctly, Pod-racer and tree farmer used those dig nozzles at one point as well. And I just mentioned in your thread that I have a bunch running in my garden at the moment, they aren't bad- but I have nothing to compare them to. Damn- the timer has been the last thing I'm deliberating on, as I was considering some solid state timer ideas from ebay and I have some 555 chips lying around from another project-I could make my own if I could remember how to do it. Hah on the deck box. I still haven't bought mine cuz I'm waiting to see if it goes on sale- but not yet at least in my state. I better get it before they run out though... Bro, you're getting real close- I can't wait to see you get it up and running, it's really cool to watch your progress and personal touches.Trichy, awesome job of nailing down every detail. I wouldn't count on that timer shipping anytime soon. Maybe I was just un-lucky, but it took well over a month from the time I ordered it to the time it was on my doorstep. I'd get that ordered first thing. It probably won't make ya feel too good, but that deck box was on sale memorial day weekend for $39.99 I almost bought one just on principal. Can't look at anything without sizing it up for aero projects.
I don't wanna take anything away from TF & your choice of nozzle, but if you're in home depot you owe it to yourself to buy a 5 pack of the dig nozzles ($5). I was going to run a side by side with the bio's, but realized that I would need 2 timers to do that efficiently. I have decided to remove the bios completely. There's $60 down the drain (potentially). I could find that my choice was wrong, and in that case I will try the bios. These are probably not made from the plastic that resists buildup, but the tips unscrew without removing the entire nozzle. I figure at a buck a piece, I can buy as many as needed. I know that there is no record of anybody using these, but that's why I say buy them, and see for yourself. They don't come threaded, but barbed. 1/4" JG fits over the barb perfectly. No $5 fitting required. They are only rated for 80 psi, but my acc tank is only "tested" to 100 psi. I guess it'll either work, or I'll be screwed. Never know til ya try. I'm still struggling to get clones, but will happily post my results. I've been doing some fine touches in the meantime. Got my refletix for the tops & to wrap the bins, fit a 48 quart cooler for my res. I almost feel complete!
Keep up the good work!