USA move closer to equality in wages
- Thread starter Jimdamick
- Start date
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
That's just it....the business will release the low wage employees so they can stay in business and maintain a profit level.
So, your question is, again, not on point or congruent with reality.
I spend about 60% of my income after taxes. The rest is invested for tomorrow.
People dont save shit these days, and they will pay for it when they are older. They think the party is now, but what they are really doing is spending all their money outside the club while waiting to get in.
Gonna be some sad pandas the day they finally get through those doors and realize they dont have enough to keep the party going.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Let's see the data which supports your contention. Everything I've seen points in the opposite direction; boosts in wages mean a boost to the economy, PROMOTING HIRING.
StonyLaRoux
Member
As a chef and somebody that has worked for $5.75 and hour and under $10 and hour for a good 8 years and has now recognized my potential (salaried on one side and business owner as a side project), gained insight, and developed a work ethic that will allow me to accomplish my goals in life, it pains me to hear that people giving minimum effort at an entry level jobs will now be given, what took years to earn. So what if McD employees get $15 dollars an hour. Jordans are still close to $200 dollars, lotto tickets are not an investment, processed foods make you fat and are cheap (water and binder/thickener to increase weight and yield, salt/fat/sugar for flavor) and for some fucked up reason nobody can grow a tomato or carrot let alone keep quiet about personal feelings on hunting.
Earning, spending, and saving habits are life skill that have fallen by the wayside. Sorry they made bad life decisions: shit out babies they can't afford, didn't finish high school, feel they should be farther in life, somebody owes them something. I can't help them. I can help somebody that has decided they don't like where they are and want to change it by means of work.
Free College yeah right. I do not want to pay for shit against a wall. Yes some will do "something" the rest will fall off and remain data entry analysts or sales reps and in 10 years be unemployable and replaced by a pipeline of low paid college graduates. Look at the school system. Anyone remember 1995 when it was deemed more cost efficient to "retire experienced teachers" for more cost efficient college graduates. A new class of teachers graduates with no life skills and maybe a 5 year age difference from the high school senior. In the time period of paying for their school and for their "discovering themselves", then graduating, college graduates have no clue what they are going to do unless they did an internship in High School. Are we paying for everyone to go to Harvard or are we going to spend more money on community colleges. Now competition has been re-introduced and I'm betting Harvard grads are going to tell CC grads which toilet to clean.
I'm looking at this from a stand point of been there done that. I'm making my own nut and dragging anyone that wants to come along with me.
Another question, what do cities do except suck up resources and produce noting. A farm and a manufacturing plant product commodities that we want. Cities just have people that show up and expect to collect loose money. Nobody that lives in a city lives by equivalent exchange. I can't sell you a sandwich at cost, buy another sandwich, and expect to pay my bills. Its like a car you have to keep putting more in to get farther. Producing something is seen as "below us". How many kids grow up saying they want to be factory or field workers.
Earning, spending, and saving habits are life skill that have fallen by the wayside. Sorry they made bad life decisions: shit out babies they can't afford, didn't finish high school, feel they should be farther in life, somebody owes them something. I can't help them. I can help somebody that has decided they don't like where they are and want to change it by means of work.
Free College yeah right. I do not want to pay for shit against a wall. Yes some will do "something" the rest will fall off and remain data entry analysts or sales reps and in 10 years be unemployable and replaced by a pipeline of low paid college graduates. Look at the school system. Anyone remember 1995 when it was deemed more cost efficient to "retire experienced teachers" for more cost efficient college graduates. A new class of teachers graduates with no life skills and maybe a 5 year age difference from the high school senior. In the time period of paying for their school and for their "discovering themselves", then graduating, college graduates have no clue what they are going to do unless they did an internship in High School. Are we paying for everyone to go to Harvard or are we going to spend more money on community colleges. Now competition has been re-introduced and I'm betting Harvard grads are going to tell CC grads which toilet to clean.
I'm looking at this from a stand point of been there done that. I'm making my own nut and dragging anyone that wants to come along with me.
Another question, what do cities do except suck up resources and produce noting. A farm and a manufacturing plant product commodities that we want. Cities just have people that show up and expect to collect loose money. Nobody that lives in a city lives by equivalent exchange. I can't sell you a sandwich at cost, buy another sandwich, and expect to pay my bills. Its like a car you have to keep putting more in to get farther. Producing something is seen as "below us". How many kids grow up saying they want to be factory or field workers.
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StonyLaRoux
Member
True words.
Some of my classmates as kids were stoked about the idea of working on automotive production lines, repair lines, etc. One went on at one point and was one of the lead techs in Brampton for the Dodge production line, and later after a little schooling become a production engineer. Others I never kept in touch with, but working in a factory used to be the cool thing to do. A huge part of my business is fabrication and production and is where I spend most of my time while working.
"I want to work in a factory"
StonyLaRoux
Member
I like that. But you are right, used to be a cool thing. I am expressing the climate as being filled with folks who are walking into orientation and asking why they don't make as much as a foreman. I run kitchens and first year culinary grads will ask for status and money based on intrinsic value or they "Know they can do it". They have no value. They might be worth something until they stop showing up or put their personal lives ahead of work. That is unacceptable. I have respect for line workers but this is the point we are trying to make. Out of all the factory line workers in that business, he had and interest, pursued it, and made himself an asset and in doing so made it profitable/enriching for himself. He went from a line tech to engineer. That doesn't just happen. A first year grad would not even be able to see the path. This gentlemen you speak of worked, saw a path, made them see their need for him, and took action.Some of my classmates as kids were stoked about the idea of working on automotive production lines, repair lines, etc. One went on at one point and was one of the lead techs in Brampton for the Dodge production line, and later after a little schooling become a production engineer. Others I never kept in touch with, but working in a factory used to be the cool thing to do. A huge part of my business is fabrication and production and is where I spend most of my time while working.
"I want to work in a factory"
$15/hr is pitty money for the people that pass the drive through, it helps them worry about the fry cook less. Low earners do not need pitty they need skills that come from working for free or next to nothing and a hunger to better themselves. They need a motor attached to their butt. "Nothing can stop me" mentality This is what becoming a Chef is all about and because of TV people say they respect them. Or are they just reacting to the fake attitude and warrior/monk image. Its all bullshit, people that do not want to help (get their hands dirty) want someone else to do something for them.
Coming to McDonald's and pretty much everything else near you.....
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966
Former McDonald's chief executive Ed Rensi recently told the US's Fox Business programme a minimum-wage increase to $15 an hour would make companies consider robot workers.
"It's cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee who is inefficient, making $15 an hour bagging French fries," he said.
It must really suck for these Chinese workers who are already making dirt for money and find themselves building the parts for the robots who are taking their jobs to build the parts for other robots to take more jobs.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376966
Former McDonald's chief executive Ed Rensi recently told the US's Fox Business programme a minimum-wage increase to $15 an hour would make companies consider robot workers.
"It's cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee who is inefficient, making $15 an hour bagging French fries," he said.
It must really suck for these Chinese workers who are already making dirt for money and find themselves building the parts for the robots who are taking their jobs to build the parts for other robots to take more jobs.
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StonyLaRoux
Member
Go to McD's or Taco Bell and watch them anytime outside peak rush. Go to chili's and walk around the back. Go to Wal-Mart and ask someone *anyone* for help. Go to Home-Depot and ask anyone how to do anything (without reading the box or referring you to the web-site). Go to ATT&T and ask sales jockey to break down the pricing strategy. They can't and therefore do not deserve a raise. The ones that do the above already make $15 or more and the others refer to them as boss.
StonyLaRoux
Member
Mr. and Mrs. $15 and hour, meet your replacement.
You have a very, very good point. Jumping from 7+ to 15 is a massive jump, doubling your labor expenses. Not only does that effect business with minimum wage workers but it is also going to really effect those without minimum wage workers.
If your business pays 15 dollars an hour now (double minimum wage) how will you adjust your scale? Do you start paying your workers 30 an hour? You certainly cant expect them to continue to work hard in a factory, on the docks, in construction, and various other places when they can go "bag fries" for 15 bucks an hour.
A slower increase would have given business plenty of time for adjustments for not only minimum wage workers but their skilled workers as well.
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
Attachments
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Your argument is inaccurate, but that doesn't matter. Even if "the data" favored you*, your argument would still be deeply flawed.
Your argument is a uni-lateral one that rests on the premise that some people have the right to make other peoples agreements for them and use initiatory force to ensure it occurs.
The burden of explaining where you or anyone gets the right to make others decisions for them is on you.
Therefore, fail.
*it doesn't, but see the rest of my post to explain why it doesn't matter.
StonyLaRoux
Member
Looks like someone needs to try a little harder.
If he made more he would loose SS benefits. McD's is notorious for hiring within the community knowing that an employee asking for no more than 27 hour, as it will disrupt his finances, has no interest in moving forward, and will not accept a raise. It took me 3 months to fire an employee like that.
To add, look at the costs. $500 for rent, 1 job making $1000, 800 in other expenses (lets list what they were, if alcohol, video game, TV cable bill is even purchased once then it is a fail), 250 for a car payment.
Again this is a failure to learn Life Skills. Job #2 is blank. Not McDonald's fault. I hate that I just said that.
If he made more he would loose SS benefits. McD's is notorious for hiring within the community knowing that an employee asking for no more than 27 hour, as it will disrupt his finances, has no interest in moving forward, and will not accept a raise. It took me 3 months to fire an employee like that.
To add, look at the costs. $500 for rent, 1 job making $1000, 800 in other expenses (lets list what they were, if alcohol, video game, TV cable bill is even purchased once then it is a fail), 250 for a car payment.
Again this is a failure to learn Life Skills. Job #2 is blank. Not McDonald's fault. I hate that I just said that.
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Do you know what wages are as a share of total expenses for McDonalds? I bet they're a lot less than you think. Now go look at their profitability and then decide if it's okay for people who DON'T WORK AT ALL (because their money is doing the work instead) to make so much off the backs of those they're underpaying.
Then, go look at the tax burden of that employee pictured above vs the tax structure of those shareholders and you'll understand why our country is going so badly off the rails.
Look at the WHOLE picture, instead of griping about how everyone working a line job is lazy or replaceable.
MrRoboto
Well-Known Member
It's not right for ttystikk to have more money than me. He should give me all his money. He doesn't work for it.
Do you see how little sense that makes?
Minimum wage is entry level. If you want more, go get it. The opportunity is there. If you are an adult with any experience or work ethic and making minimum wage you have made some terrible decisions along the way.
Hell create this Utopian business where the employees are paid well regardless of skill. Sounds like a great plan. I'll be looking for you on the cover of Forbes.
The vast majority of the 1% are 1st generation wealthy. Money comes and goes. Within 2 generations their offspring will be dead ass broke. It's just the way shit goes. Don't be a hater.
A little story. I have a friend who is a slum lord and sells shitty cars. The risk is big. They are all broke. No one else will finance them. His philosophy is you've got to fuck the poor. Rich people know better. He's doing quite well.
None of that means I want people to be poor. What's mine is mine. You feel the same way. The difference is I live by the golden rule. Because I don't want you in my pocket, I will keep my hands out of yours.
The truth of the matter is we all vote with our dollars. If you don't like what company x,y,or z is doing then don't buy their products. But we like cheap Walmart shit. The cheaper the better.
Do you see how little sense that makes?
Minimum wage is entry level. If you want more, go get it. The opportunity is there. If you are an adult with any experience or work ethic and making minimum wage you have made some terrible decisions along the way.
Hell create this Utopian business where the employees are paid well regardless of skill. Sounds like a great plan. I'll be looking for you on the cover of Forbes.
The vast majority of the 1% are 1st generation wealthy. Money comes and goes. Within 2 generations their offspring will be dead ass broke. It's just the way shit goes. Don't be a hater.
A little story. I have a friend who is a slum lord and sells shitty cars. The risk is big. They are all broke. No one else will finance them. His philosophy is you've got to fuck the poor. Rich people know better. He's doing quite well.
None of that means I want people to be poor. What's mine is mine. You feel the same way. The difference is I live by the golden rule. Because I don't want you in my pocket, I will keep my hands out of yours.
The truth of the matter is we all vote with our dollars. If you don't like what company x,y,or z is doing then don't buy their products. But we like cheap Walmart shit. The cheaper the better.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Nowhere in any of your diatribes about laziness or 'the worth of work' do you address the ethically bankrupt practice of working some people for starvation wages just so someone else whose money got passed down to them through no fault of their own but the genetic lottery can work exactly not at all and reap excess profits.
My contention is about respecting the time of the people you ask to work for you. If you can't afford to pay $15 an hour, fucking do it yourself, raise your prices or innovate.
But I can tell by your attitude that you don't care if the other guy starves; YOU got YOURS, so they can suck it. That's just despicable.
Get a second job then, fuck.
A skilless shit job like this and 35-40 hours a week SHOULDN"T pay your bills. 60 hours of this would, however. Back to work McBurger Flipper
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
I think minimum wage as entry level is not disputed. But it should be a livable wage.
In regard to "robots and such" taking over. Thats going to happen anyway. Its been happening since the industrial revolution and will continue to happen. Its not so much the wage costs its the accounting and rostering and sickness side and day to day effecncy that it brings. They can work 24/7 and not have a break.
It destroyed the country and it will slowly destroy the cities economies.
People having 2 jobs; Thats great but if the first job paid a livable wage then we would could have 1/2 the unemployed, as two jobs may mean 2 employed people. Both spending disposable income and paying tax.
An example in one of my business that reflect the much talked about $15 an hr mark:
One of my bushiness is cleaning. Specializing in rental bond cleans for real estates and some commercial cleaning (just started branching into that side). I charge out a employee at $35 an hr. I pay them $15 an hr. Its no big deal.
I see know one is debating the economics of it. The whole argument against is based on "feelings" and "what others say" and "its not fair cause i only earn ".
A min livable hourly rate is fair. It should of already been in place and linked to inflation. (which would help the inflation issue). It wasnt due to greed of the "policy makers" who want us all broke, uneducated and slaving for them.
Its fair and is economically sound. Scary for some? Yes.
In regard to "robots and such" taking over. Thats going to happen anyway. Its been happening since the industrial revolution and will continue to happen. Its not so much the wage costs its the accounting and rostering and sickness side and day to day effecncy that it brings. They can work 24/7 and not have a break.
It destroyed the country and it will slowly destroy the cities economies.
People having 2 jobs; Thats great but if the first job paid a livable wage then we would could have 1/2 the unemployed, as two jobs may mean 2 employed people. Both spending disposable income and paying tax.
An example in one of my business that reflect the much talked about $15 an hr mark:
One of my bushiness is cleaning. Specializing in rental bond cleans for real estates and some commercial cleaning (just started branching into that side). I charge out a employee at $35 an hr. I pay them $15 an hr. Its no big deal.
I see know one is debating the economics of it. The whole argument against is based on "feelings" and "what others say" and "its not fair cause i only earn ".
A min livable hourly rate is fair. It should of already been in place and linked to inflation. (which would help the inflation issue). It wasnt due to greed of the "policy makers" who want us all broke, uneducated and slaving for them.
Its fair and is economically sound. Scary for some? Yes.
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