Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize
- Thread starter Matt Rize
- Start date
trichmasta
Active Member
I think what it comes down to, is the cleanliness and bio availability the a plant based regimen offers...do all organic growers only shop at Whole Foods or Trader Joes...? I doubt it...lol!
it was just a question dude
trichmasta
Active Member
its all good Sunni...just sharing thoughts...sorry if it came off harsh....
Plant based gardening has changed my patients and my life forever!!
Kalyx
Active Member
We grow veganic because it produces healthy plants with utmost resin quality. I myself am not vegan but if it yielded improved human quality then we should all go vegan. Holistic organic is good enough for me, I eat high quality foods just like my plants, and I do shop at TJs and the food whole. But animals are still on both our lists. The source and methods of production of the animal inputs are highly scrutinized to minimize low quality/ factory farm stuff from getting in, although I do believe microbes are a pretty strong bio filter they can't get rid of modern industrial tainting. I think it's kinda ironic when I meet an organic farmer who eats crap food. They feed their plants better than themselves.
+ WitchDoctor +
Well-Known Member
I'm vegan Sunni. Or more specifically I have a whole foods plant-based diet. So considering I've been sneaking in a liquid guano product all winter I may be the only person on this thread trying to feed myself better than I'm feeding my plants! Lol.
So growing using plant-based methods has been important to me for quite awhile now because of the way I eat and how I feed my children. I consider cannabis a food. And I use plant-based methods to grow food as well, even indoors a bit in the winter in open grow room spaces.
Are you vegan as well?
+ WitchDoctor +
Well-Known Member
I finally got a response back through the Vegan Organic Network about using worm castings in a vegan grow. Some of you might not like the answer. Some of you might not care. Some of you, as I'm going to do, may opt for trying outdoor worm-composters this year to ensure that the worms are free to come and go if they don't like the compost. I personally have ordered a package of 10,000 red worms where EVERY SINGLE ONE of them died from heat during the shipping process, it was horrific. And sometimes they just don't like the compost and want out.
Subject: Re: question about earthworm castings and worm compost
I think that as the worms that are producing the casts are captive it is a form of unnecessary exploitation. Allowing worms into an open compost is a different matter as they come or go as they please. I understand the conditions in wormeries can be hard to maintain and as a result the worms can suffer or die. I also have heard that there are direct links to the worms being used as fishing bait and have reservations about them being delivered in the post. My greatest objection however is against the purposeful breeding of the worms for our own desired outcomes.
Take Care
Rob
To avoid any arguments rising up about this again though, let's re-instate that in Kyle Kushman Veganics, he allows worm castings to be used. But the Vegan Organic Network does not. Either way it's a better bet than manure, and more ecologically responsible than harvesting guano.
Have a great week everyone!
I personally have ordered a package of 10,000 red worms where EVERY SINGLE ONE of them died from heat during the shipping process, it was horrific. And sometimes they just don't like the compost and want out.Subject: Re: question about earthworm castings and worm compost
I think that as the worms that are producing the casts are captive it is a form of unnecessary exploitation. Allowing worms into an open compost is a different matter as they come or go as they please. I understand the conditions in wormeries can be hard to maintain and as a result the worms can suffer or die. I also have heard that there are direct links to the worms being used as fishing bait and have reservations about them being delivered in the post. My greatest objection however is against the purposeful breeding of the worms for our own desired outcomes.
Take Care
Rob
To avoid any arguments rising up about this again though, let's re-instate that in Kyle Kushman Veganics, he allows worm castings to be used. But the Vegan Organic Network does not. Either way it's a better bet than manure, and more ecologically responsible than harvesting guano.
Have a great week everyone!
Kalyx
Active Member
Choice witch!
How big does a living thing need to be a 'captive'? If you follow the network's logic is living soil container gardening all together not vegan? Since microbes and other microbeasties "cannot come and go as they please", are we "unnecessarily exploiting" them, and even causing whole communities of them to "suffer and go dormant", and basically "be purposefully bred for our own desired outcomes" of growing super delicious medical cannabis and vegis. If yes, is there a mini scale factory farm in each of our contained rootballs? Is the contained part the issue? Equal rights for all!
I am obviously playing devils advocate here. I myself try not to support factory farming (although i do eat out in USA) and love animals of all sizes. However I would like to hear from some folks on where/why we are drawing the "veganic" line in the living organic sand? Is it captivity or poopiness that need be avoided? What is the core issue to you?
How big does a living thing need to be a 'captive'? If you follow the network's logic is living soil container gardening all together not vegan? Since microbes and other microbeasties "cannot come and go as they please", are we "unnecessarily exploiting" them, and even causing whole communities of them to "suffer and go dormant", and basically "be purposefully bred for our own desired outcomes" of growing super delicious medical cannabis and vegis. If yes, is there a mini scale factory farm in each of our contained rootballs? Is the contained part the issue? Equal rights for all!
I am obviously playing devils advocate here. I myself try not to support factory farming (although i do eat out in USA) and love animals of all sizes. However I would like to hear from some folks on where/why we are drawing the "veganic" line in the living organic sand? Is it captivity or poopiness that need be avoided? What is the core issue to you?
foreverflyhi
Well-Known Member
Hey not looking for arguments here, looking for articles from which these animal products are coming from? Example feather meal? Bome meal etc etc?
headtreep
Well-Known Member
Come visit us here and get rid of those bottle over price nutes!
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/636057-recycled-organic-living-soil-rols.html
https://www.rollitup.org/organics/636057-recycled-organic-living-soil-rols.html
Kalyx
Active Member
That's the way my gardens are going. "Simple" living microbial soils and sustainable cyclic practices for the win! Still got the bottles but they get replaced less and less as they run out. I'd rather buy organic inputs and make my own "juice" to feed microbial helpers and plants in the living mix.
trichmasta
Active Member
Only thing I'm using out of the bottle ATM is hi brix molasses...still looking for better food sources...
today shopping list: glacial rock dust and crab meal!!
today shopping list: glacial rock dust and crab meal!!
personal lux
Well-Known Member
for my veganic grow ive been using canna vega,rhizotonic,hygrozyme, cannazyme, technaflora soluable seaweed 1-1-16, humboldt bloom 0-10-0, bioflores, mineral matrix,ancient earth humic/fulvic, and GO calmag with OGtea for my vegan grow.
+ WitchDoctor +
Well-Known Member
Hey Kalyx, it's been awhile. My simple answer would be that worms are animals and most of the other beneficials in the soil aren't. Micro-organisms aren't animals.
If I was going to answer on the level that all soil life is equal...or almost equal...then my argument would be that they are not kept prisoner in the container at all. They are free to leave at any point and try to make it on their own. The issue with keeping worms in a bin indoors would be that the bins are designed to make it almost impossible to escape if they so choose to.
Also, I would say that with living soil container gardening, the microbes are doing what they're meant to do, they are helping a root system to grow a plant. Worms in a bin are only helping us get free nutrients for our plants.
Now...worms in the container would be vegan. And I seem to have a worm in almost every pot lol. I even let my soil sit in a 30 gal barrel with the lid cracked for a month before reusing just to make sure the worms don't cook if they make it. Lol.
As far as poopiness...I'm cool with worm castings and I don't think of it as poop anyways. And if using worm castings grossed me out I'd have to close my eyes when hot composting too. I'd still never grow anything with manure if I can help it.
That's my two cents. I hadn't looked at the whole worm slavery aspect until this debate came up and I got the response...but it's inspired me to build some huge 3x3 outdoor worm composters next to the raised beds and I'm gonna try to keep them outside all year. They'll be able to come and go, but I'll feed them good enough to keep them around. And I'm gonna start doing some different types of cold composting for the first time this year.
jstone1633
Well-Known Member
Can someone recommend a good vegan tea? One for veg and one for bloom? I grow in a mixture of sunshine advanced mix #4, ewc, and perlite so there't not much nutrients in what I start with and Id like to feed with something every watering if possible. I have a hydro store close by that carries just about anything you could recommend. All types of rock powders and meals in 2 to 5 lb jars. They also carry maxi crop. I also use the Roots organic line of nutes but would rather switch to mainly teas. I just recently got a good compost source that I plan on using every 3-4 waterings. Looking forward to feedback.
TrichomeBob
New Member
Haven't really read much, upto the point where you said your using canna products, may be different as I've heard some companies have different formulas for each continent.
I started growing on Cannas organic line, with bio boost, gave that shit up after the bottles ran out for plant magics old timer line, no boosters (a bottle of mollases is cheaper and practically the same) and had much better results, but then, none have been better than making my own soil & teas now.
In Europe Cannas organic range is thought of as shite by most UK growers, their chemical line is good but its chemicals!
Cannas organic range, veganic if u want to call it, is overpriced bollox.
Ive never gotten vegans personally, or even vegetarians, I know this is medicine, but I bet the majority of the people that smoke/ingest marihuana probably eat meat or animal products in some form, so why restrict from feeding them to ur plants, when for 100s if not 1000s of years theyve been fed to plants (I don't know for fact this, but its logical, horse manure, chicken shit will have some type of animal matter in them and people have fed this for years.
i can understand not wanting products with something gm in them, but in this day and age most things can be sourced, I know you can get blood meal and bone meal, thatis organic and gm free.
honestly I can understand organics, I grow organically, but vegan, come on. Next they'll be people saying, wait , don't cut the plant down, it has feelings too!
I started growing on Cannas organic line, with bio boost, gave that shit up after the bottles ran out for plant magics old timer line, no boosters (a bottle of mollases is cheaper and practically the same) and had much better results, but then, none have been better than making my own soil & teas now.
In Europe Cannas organic range is thought of as shite by most UK growers, their chemical line is good but its chemicals!
Cannas organic range, veganic if u want to call it, is overpriced bollox.
Ive never gotten vegans personally, or even vegetarians, I know this is medicine, but I bet the majority of the people that smoke/ingest marihuana probably eat meat or animal products in some form, so why restrict from feeding them to ur plants, when for 100s if not 1000s of years theyve been fed to plants (I don't know for fact this, but its logical, horse manure, chicken shit will have some type of animal matter in them and people have fed this for years.
i can understand not wanting products with something gm in them, but in this day and age most things can be sourced, I know you can get blood meal and bone meal, thatis organic and gm free.
honestly I can understand organics, I grow organically, but vegan, come on. Next they'll be people saying, wait , don't cut the plant down, it has feelings too!
st0wandgrow
Well-Known Member
jstone1633,
Are you looking to make an aerated compost tea (ACT)?
I hope you don't mind me interrupting your soap box speech TrichomeBob.....
Are you looking to make an aerated compost tea (ACT)?
I hope you don't mind me interrupting your soap box speech TrichomeBob.....