Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

NightbirdX said:

I've been wanting to amend my soil more. I wanna add some Cottonseed Meal and Earthworm Castings. I already add the lime at 2 TBS per gallon of container that the plants go in. How much Cottonseed Meal and EWC would you recommend adding to my Pro-Mix as a start?

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I'm doing around 1:10 EWC:soilless mix, then adding some grade4 perlite to balance because the bioterra plus has no perlite or pumice. About a 1/2 cup meal per bag, same lime as you. I like to let it "cook" in my heat exchange room.

1/2 cup/bag on the meal? How bigga bag? lol

Can't wait for the book! Strictly plant and mineral based nutrients for me.

for me nothing beats alfalfa, soybean meal, kelp, EWC, lime (and a few other things) for veg, and for flowering kelp, EWC, soft rock, lime (and a few other things, lol) and we're good to go!

Just take the time to cook your mix, and you'll notice how far the P source will go, because really, in all the work I've done trying to get a sufficient mix for my needs with as little additives as possible (not small amounts of given fertz, just not many that aren't totally needed, minimalism is a big deal for me and the need to outsource has kind of forced my hand as such), the only problem I've ever run into was availability of P, and that was only at the beginning when my mix wasn't cooked, I now cook my old root balls with soft rock and I pull out media that is super rich and very easy to work with, mix that with your veg mix (minus the alfalfa meal, you could also feasibly remove the SB meal with no real issues, given other variables are taken care of properly).

Don't worry about making your mix too hot, becuase it won't ALL be available right away, and I've also noticed that it's the guano that can make a mix REALLY hot, to the point where it'll be detrimental to your plants. I have yet to burn my plants with kelp and such, and I add quite a bit. I could list amounts in cups and stuff, but to be honest I just 'feel' for it, I add however much I feel like and it always works, but this could be because I've been mixing organic soils for years and have since phased out measuring tools - this is just me, and if needed I can throw out some numbers, measurements per bag (1.5 cuft/10(ish) gallons) and such.

I've even added a pretty heavy amount of vegan fertz in FFOF and it wasn't too hot and my plants LOVED it.

amended mixes with little to no supplementation is the way to go IMHHO.

Also keep in mind that was a quite rudimentary mix, and you can add things that make nutrient availability much higher; humics, bennies, teas....

haha this was meant to be a short post, but I guess I went off....

^^^^^^^^ vnice UPtheA!!!

NightbirdX said:

1/2 cup/bag on the meal? How bigga bag? lol

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uh... I standard bag, same size as roots and happy frog.

I was talking with a friend in Japan today regarding gardening and he was mentioning his mom makes a bacteria out of rice and milk for her little garden.

Anyone heard of this?

While waiting for more details, I did some research and this is what I was able to find:

EM/BAM (lactobacillus culture):

1/4 cup rice
1quart Mason Jar
1 cup water
1 fine mesh strainer
80 oz milk depends on how much one is making
1 gallon container or jar
1 tsp. black-strap molasses

Procedure:

1. Place rice and cup of water in mason jar and shake vigorously until water is cloudy white, strain off rice kernels and discard into your compost bin or cook for dinner. I have heard of the Japanese adding a dash of nato to help ferment but not needed.
2. place cap on loosely and store in a cabinet or cool dark place for 5-7 days.
3. Sift off top layer and strain liquid (serum)
4. measure your rice liquid and now add a ratio of 1 part fermented rice to 10 parts milk, I would culture in a 1 gallon jar. let sit for 5-7 days.
5. sift off curd settlement and add to your soil or feed your animals it is good for their digestion, then there should be a light yellow serum left this is your EM serum.
6. Add 1 tsp molasses to feed and keep your bacteria alive and refrigerate. should have a shelf life of 6-12 months.
7. to activate EM activities add to room temperature non-chlorinated water at a ratio of 1 part Serum to 20 parts water.
8. feed to plants either straight into soil or follicular feeding.

Wolverine97 said:

Jorge is an idiot, I'm sorry, but he is.

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Hey now! I have a signed copy of something of his from the early 90's. LOL Didn't tell me anything I hadn't learned by killing plants, in the previous 20 years.

Wonder if the signature is fake????

@Matt, +1 on the garden saver. That and "Marijuana Botany" are my 2 go to books.

Wet

Matt Rize said:

uh... I standard bag, same size as roots and happy frog.

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Oh ok, I wasn't sure if you meant grow bags or something else, lol.

Bear with me. Damn it Jim I'm a writer not a science man! I have been looking for what I should be putting the conversions into, but I couldnt really find anything. So on a full bale of Pro-Mix I should add about 1.25 cups or the Cottonseed meal, I'll add 2 TBS/gallon on the lime, and with the EWC, 1:10 with the Pro-Mix, so .38 ft3/bale? If anyone could iron out my EWC measurements I really would appreciate it, lol. I write real well, but the measurements and conversions is where I fail, lol.

P.S. PAGE 100 FIRST POST WOOHOO! lol what do I win?

Wetdog said:

Hey now! I have a signed copy of something of his from the early 90's. LOL Didn't tell me anything I hadn't learned by killing plants, in the previous 20 years.

Wonder if the signature is fake????

@Matt, +1 on the garden saver. That and "Marijuana Botany" are my 2 go to books.

Wet

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I started with Jorge like most people here, and I learned the basics from him but also a lot of conflicting bullshit that hung me up with issues forever. If I had started somewhere like Mel Thomas I could have saved myself some aggravation.

NightbirdX said:

Oh ok, I wasn't sure if you meant grow bags or something else, lol.

Bear with me. Damn it Jim I'm a writer not a science man! I have been looking for what I should be putting the conversions into, but I couldnt really find anything. So on a full bale of Pro-Mix I should add about 1.25 cups or the Cottonseed meal, I'll add 2 TBS/gallon on the lime, and with the EWC, 1:10 with the Pro-Mix, so .38 ft3/bale? If anyone could iron out my EWC measurements I really would appreciate it, lol. I write real well, but the measurements and conversions is where I fail, lol.

P.S. PAGE 100 FIRST POST WOOHOO! lol what do I win?

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I'd use 2-3 cups of ewc per gal, you could go up to 30% (and I've heard of people going to 44% in soil-less) but it makes the media quite heavy.... or least my ewc are super heavy..

I always use 2 cups kelp per gal and half that of lime, so I use one cup lime per gal... 2tbsp/gal sounds kind of wimpy...

Some pics of my bud porn. I haven't posted any yet, mostly cause I just figured out how to use my Digicam and the cam on my phone. Enjoy

Butterscotch Hawaiian x G-13 (Free Leonard)


More Free Leonard
View attachment 1641690

One of my Jack Herer. Little Bastards still gave me 2 zones per plant


Some plants in Bloom


Grand Daddy Purps


More GDP


Another of the Jack


The wall of Good...

@NBX

You might want to rethink that cottonseed meal. One, I have seen that it is not indicated for container growing, Two, it is very acidic, and Three, cotton is usually heavily treated with pesticides, herbicides and all sorts of stuff. One of the heaviest treated crops around.

Alfalfa and Soybean meal would be much better for N sources.

*I* use 1cup of lime/CuFt (7.5 gallons). I cup/gallon?!? As much as I love lime, that's a bit over the top. LOL Also, 1cup of kelp meal/CuFt. Adding more does not increase benefit.

Too much of anything can create lockout's elsewhere.

Wet

Great pics NB!! That GDP looks delisiouso, good work man.

I used to use .5 cup per gal then I doubled it, I had noticed some pH issues and a cal def. Lime is my main source of calcium, and I've used 1cup for two harvests with no problems; can't knock it till you try it.




This one had a bit under 5 cups, and this was certainly my best mix with the best end result. (not the best bud, but the best looking plant considering how LITTLE I had to supplement the plant)

Not knocking it, I've grown (not mj), in pure crushed limestone before.

But, like with anything, start slow and work your way up to whatever works best for you and your situation.

Wet

Although to be honest wet, I remember thinking "shit I guess I'll find if this was too much after the plants get burnt or something", it is a heavy amount of lime, and the stuff goes faster now. At least, I'd recommend .5 cup, some of my smaller plants liked this. Even though I use more, I think most would be fine with 5-6 cups per bag of media (1.5cuft or so).

If you only use a few tbsp per gal and notice anything you can always top dress, so I do agree, more isn't always better. I'm just relaying my experience.

Wetdog said:

Not knocking it, I've grown (not mj), in pure crushed limestone before.

But, like with anything, start slow and work your way up to whatever works best for you and your situation.

Wet

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Correctamundo.

Wetdog said:

@NBX

You might want to rethink that cottonseed meal. One, I have seen that it is not indicated for container growing, Two, it is very acidic, and Three, cotton is usually heavily treated with pesticides, herbicides and all sorts of stuff. One of the heaviest treated crops around.

Alfalfa and Soybean meal would be much better for N sources.

*I* use 1cup of lime/CuFt (7.5 gallons). I cup/gallon?!? As much as I love lime, that's a bit over the top. LOL Also, 1cup of kelp meal/CuFt. Adding more does not increase benefit.

Too much of anything can create lockout's elsewhere.

Wet

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I second that. in fact , if you can I'd stay away from soybeans as well since it's becoming over produced (what was it that I got cut down to grow giant soybeans crops? a rainforest or something?)

A friend of mine who is very big on the sustainable products school of thought, and has warned me about soybeans.

beeznuts do you have any links? or other info?

I remember reading that growing soy can damage the ground and make it difficult to regain it's composition.... although there could have been other factors involoved, ie. chem fertz and such.

Wetdog said:

@NBX

You might want to rethink that cottonseed meal. One, I have seen that it is not indicated for container growing, Two, it is very acidic, and Three, cotton is usually heavily treated with pesticides, herbicides and all sorts of stuff. One of the heaviest treated crops around.

Alfalfa and Soybean meal would be much better for N sources.

*I* use 1cup of lime/CuFt (7.5 gallons). I cup/gallon?!? As much as I love lime, that's a bit over the top. LOL Also, 1cup of kelp meal/CuFt. Adding more does not increase benefit.

Too much of anything can create lockout's elsewhere.

Wet

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I noticed my plants were heavy eaters so i also use a ton of lime, if it does burn at first then you need to let the soil cook for a week or so.

upthearsenal said:

A friend of mine who is very big on the sustainable products school of thought, and has warned me about soybeans.

beeznuts do you have any links? or other info?

I remember reading that growing soy can damage the ground and make it difficult to regain it's composition.... although there could have been other factors involoved, ie. chem fertz and such.

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nah man, I don't. I just remember having a conversation with some friends about a yr ago and somebody brought up the subject of soybeans being over produced. and it's true, if u pay attention you'll notice how many products these days, edible or not, have soy ingredients. I don't even drink soymilk anymore, switched to almond and coconut after relizing that I, too have too many soy ingredients in my diet ( it's easy to do when ur vegan).
as a general rule too much of anything's no good, that's all....