Vegan Organics Aka Veganics With Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
so applying it in the soil will build the plants immunity to the mildew, mold, and pest attacks over time, since its systematic?? kind of like mediciene for plants? or is spraying neem the more effective way to use it?
Neem is also medicinal for people, and if you go to the beauty section in hippy grocery stores you will find neem in toothpaste and skin beauty products. I use cold pressed neem, it is very raw. Azamax is a derivative of neem that is supposedly better, but I don't like it. It is not medicinal for people, but actually a nerve toxin that can be absorbed through the skin (also eyes & mucus membranes). My older veteran consults told me it gives them numbness in their extremities, and anywhere the azadirachtin directly contacted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azadirachtin

I can't tell you what is more effective (spray versus meal), but a combination of the two would be best in theory.
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
so applying it in the soil will build the plants immunity to the mildew, mold, and pest attacks over time, since its systematic?? kind of like mediciene for plants? or is spraying neem the more effective way to use it?

no wonder why i have always heard neem, neem, neem, neem, lol
I have used neem for 15 years and have found it very effective at discouraging bad bugs. Most bugs would rather die than eat neem. Neem is used heavily in Inda for just about everything. Neem is systemic and is absorbed by the plant cells when sprayed on the leaves. This will protect for about 3 weeks. You can use neem oil as a soil drench to help prevent bugs.

Neem Oil is not is a knock down killer, neem oil acts on the reproductive organs and they can't breed. My friend wrote this last month and it is very informative. He turned me on to neem 15 years ago.

Hope you don't mind me posting this here Matt.

[FONT=&quot]http://urbangardenmagazine.com/2010/11/neem-oil/[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nature’s Plant Protector[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Bill Sutherland from [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Growing Edge Technologies[/FONT][FONT=&quot] discusses neem oil and how it can form an important part of your indoor garden pest control program.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]WHAT IS NEEM OIL?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem oil is a natural product derived from the seeds of the neem tree (Azadirachta indica). The neem tree is native to tropical and semi-tropical regions of South Asia but also grows in the Middle East and some parts of Africa. Most of the widespread cultivation and use of neem is in India, where it has been used for over two thousand years as a medicinal treatment for a plethora of ailments and disorders. The neem tree is an evergreen, which grows to around 60 ft (18 m) and produces white aromatic flowers followed by a small fruit that looks much like a large olive. Inside the fruit lies the payload; one large seed from which the oil is extracted by either cold pressing or solvent extraction. A by-product of neem oil extraction is a solid dried product called ‘neem cake’, which can be used as an organic fertilizer as well as a good method of controlling soil-dwelling pests. Here we will focus on the properties, uses and advantages of neem oil when used as a natural pest control agent for your homegrown fruits and flowers.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please note: Neem oil products are not currently registered for use as a pesticide in Canada.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What does neem oil do?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This may sound disappointing, but it needs to be said: neem is not an insecticide that kills on contact, and it has a low instant ‘knock down’ effect. However, it is still very effective! Unlike other chemical insecticides, neem oil gets into an insect’s body after the ingestion of neem coated plant material and gets to work within a few hours. The predominant active component in neem oil is called azadirachtin, and once in a pest’s body it directly affects the hormonal system, more so than the digestive or nervous system. The way in which azadirachtin targets the hormonal system means that insects are far less likely to develop resistance in future generations. As well as azadirachtin, other liminoid compounds present in natural neem oil (nimbin, salanin, gedunin, azadirone, melandriol and more) play a significant collaborative role in deterring feeding and reducing pest populations.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Biological Effects of Neem Oil on Insects[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Historical use and recent research studies show that a broad range of phytophagous (plant eating) pest insects are affected and can be controlled by neem oil, these include:[/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]Orthoptera: grasshoppers, katydids, crickets etc.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Coleoptera: wide range of beetles/weevils[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Hemiptera: leafhoppers, aphids, psyllids & some scale insects[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Lepidoptera: cutworms, borers & caterpillars[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Thysanoptera: thrips[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Diptera: Sciarid fly, fruit fly, buffalo/blow & march fly[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Heteroptera: sucking bugs – Green veggie bug, spotted fruit bug etc.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Others: nematodes, snails, and also some fungi and pathogenic viruses[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Insect Growth Regulation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem oil is unique in nature since it works on juvenile hormones. The insect larva feeds and when it grows, it sheds its old skin and continues growing. This molting phenomenon, also know as ecdysis, is predominantly governed by the enzyme ecdysone. When the ingested neem, or more specifically azadirachtin, enters into the body of larva, the activity of ecdysone is suppressed. This causes molting failure and results in the larva not developing to the next life stage, and ultimately dying. If only a small amount of neem-coated foliage is ingested, and the concentration of azadirachtin is insufficient to cause molting failure, the larva will manage to enter a short-lived prepupal stage where it will die. In some instances, where the concentration of azadirachtin is still less, the adult emerging from the pupa will be malformed and sterile, without any capacity for reproduction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Feeding Deterrent[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]One of most important properties of neem oil is feeding deterrence. Most insects are permanently hungry during their larval stages, particularly when they are mobile on the leaf surface. An insect’s maxillary gland is responsible for initiating feeding. When these glands give a signal, peristalsis in the alimentary canal is increased, which makes the larva feel hungry, and makes it start eating. When a leaf is treated with neem oil, the presence of the liminoids azadirachtin, salanin and melandriol produces an anti-peristaltic wave in an insect’s alimentary canal, producing something similar to a vomiting sensation combined with a reduced ability to swallow. Because of this sensation, an insect will avoid feeding on neem-treated leaf surfaces.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Oviposition Deterrent[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Another way in which neem oil reduces pests is by not allowing the females to deposit eggs. This property is known as oviposition deterrence, and quickly thwarts the pest population growth. Interestingly, studies by Knapp & Kashenge (Insect Sci. Applic.2003) on spider mites, and Singh & Singh (Phytoparasitica, 1998) on fruit flies have shown that natural neem oil formulations are more effective as oviposition deterrents and insect mortality than azadirachtin concentrates alone. Results from Knapp’s & Kashenge’s study showed that azadirachtin does not seem to play a major role in the control of spider mites. Although, azadirachtin is an important component of neem oil, the other less studied ingredients seem to have a positive synergistic effect when it comes to effecting the behavior, effectiveness and mortality of plant pests.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem Oil’s Effect on Non-Target Species and Beneficial Insects[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]One of the problems with the use of chemical pesticides has been their impact on non-target species, particularly when used outdoors. Often they have proved harmful to other beneficial species present in the ecosystem. Neem oil products have proved to be remarkably benign to insects such as adult bees and butterflies that pollinate crops and trees, ladybugs that consume aphids, and wasps that act as parasites on various crop pests. As mentioned above, neem oil has to be ingested to be effective. Those insects that feed on plant tissues, therefore, easily succumb. However natural enemies that feed only on other insects, and bees and butterflies that feed on nectar rarely come in contact with significant concentrations of neem oil to cause themselves harm.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem Oil’s Other Benefits as a Foliar Spray[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Beside its insecticidal and nematicidal properties, neem oil is also a promising agent for the control of viral and fungal plant diseases. Neem oil in combination with paraffin oil has been shown to greatly reduce disease incidences of the yellow vein mosaic virus of okra and legumes, and leaf curl of chili, all of which can cause enormous losses. Neem oil has also been shown to reduce transmission of the tobacco mosaic virus in greenhouse vegetable crops of pepper, cucumber and tomato.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem oil has been demonstrated to suppress fungal activity. Fungi are constantly evolving enemies of growers and some can reach epidemic proportions. Neem oil has been shown to protect seeds against fungal diseases while in storage, and be beneficial as a preventative spray for fungal leaf diseases such as powdery and downy mildew.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem oil also contains some key nutrients that make it a good foliar fertilizer. A typical good quality neem oil product found in your local grow store will contain the following plant nutrients:[/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]Total Nitrogen 1.20% by mass[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Phosphorus as P 0.07% by mass[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Potassium as K 0.01% by mass[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Magnesium as Mg 0.03% by mass[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Copper as Cu 10 ppm[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Magnesium, as Mn 0.40 ppm[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Zinc as Zn 20.00 ppm[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Iron content 14.00 ppm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So, not only will regular spraying of neem oil onto your plant foliage control pests, it will also help prevent diseases and act as a foliage fertilizer! Amazing stuff.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How to Use Natural Cold-Pressed Neem Oil:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Foliar Spraying[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Like most of the vegetable oils, natural cold-pressed Neem oil is non-soluble in water and has to be made soluble with suitable emulsifiers before spraying. Some commonly available emulsifiers that can be used are liquid soaps, eco-friendly detergents, surfactants, wetting agents, soap nut powder, and many other organic emulsifiers.[/FONT]

  1. [FONT=&quot]Collect together your equipment.[/FONT]
  2. [FONT=&quot]To make 10 liters of spray-able neem, pour 1 liter of water into a container, add 10–15 ml of liquid soap, or a suitable emulsifier, and agitate well until the soap/emulsifiers completely dissolve.[/FONT]
  3. [FONT=&quot]To this solution add 50 ml of neem oil and agitate well until a pale yellowish white emulsion is formed.[/FONT]
  4. [FONT=&quot]Add this prepared emulsion to 9 liters of water in a bucket and stir thoroughly. The neem solution is now ready for spraying.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Spraying should be done within 8 hours of mixing, using a suitable sprayer. This solution can be used as a foliar spray on crops, and also can be sprayed on the surface of growing media for effective action against root pests.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is recommended to repeat the spraying 5 times at intervals of 7 to 10 days. Spraying should be undertaken during periods of low light intensity; outdoors or in greenhouses this should be in the early morning or late in the evening. If you grow under lights, raise them high and consider turning a few off to reduce light intensity before spraying.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Soil Drench[/FONT]

  • [FONT=&quot]To make 10 liters of drench-able neem. Add 1 liter of water to a container. Add 20–30 ml of liquid soap, or suitable emulsifier, and agitate well until the soap/emulsifiers completely dissolve.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]To this solution add 250–350 ml of neem oil and agitate well until a pale yellowish white emulsion is formed.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=&quot]Add this prepared emulsion to 9 liters of water in a bucket and stir thoroughly. The neem solution is now ready to pour onto the growing medium. Apply enough for a small amount of run-off to occur.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Please Note: Drenching potting soil with neem will adversely affect the beneficial biology of the rhizosphere. If you need to drench the root zone with neem, a follow up application with a good quality actively aerated compost tea will help to re-inoculate the beneficial bacteria, fungi and protozoa.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem Oil’s Effect on Plants[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Neem oil not only coats the plant foliage after spraying, it is actually absorbed into the leaf material and can be transported around the plant systemically. Neem’s liminoid compounds (mainly azadirachtin) can be taken up by the roots after root zone applications, thereby reaching leaf and stem material throughout the whole plant. This reinforces the anti-feeding deterrent properties or neem oil, which makes the whole plant rather unappealing to invading pests.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Due to this persistence in the plant, neem oil products should not be used on plants that are approaching maturity. As a general rule, avoid spraying or soil drenching neem oil on plants that have five weeks left before harvest. As mentioned above, neem products have been used topically and ingested for medicinal use by humans for thousands of years and are completely non-toxic. However, neem has a very bitter taste that can, if used too late in a plant’s life cycle, be passed into the developing consumable produce.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Summary of the Advantages of Neem Oil[/FONT]

  1. [FONT=&quot]Broad spectrum of activity[/FONT]
  2. [FONT=&quot]No known insecticide resistance mechanisms[/FONT]
  3. [FONT=&quot]Compatible with many other insecticides and fungicides[/FONT]
  4. [FONT=&quot]New mode of action with possible multiple sites of attack[/FONT]
  5. [FONT=&quot]Low use rates[/FONT]
  6. [FONT=&quot]Compatible with other biological control agents for Integrated Pest Management programs.[/FONT]
  7. [FONT=&quot]Not persistent in the environment[/FONT]
  8. [FONT=&quot]Minimal impact on non-target organisms[/FONT]
  9. [FONT=&quot]Formulation flexibility[/FONT]
  10. [FONT=&quot]Application flexibility — can be sprayed or drenched[/FONT]
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Here's the scoop on Azamax also good stuff made from neem oil.

AzaMax™
Botanical Insecticide, Miticide, and Nematicide

AzaMax is a natural product with a broad spectrum of pest control and broad plant applications. AzaMax is made from special Azadirachtin Technical extracted using patented extraction technology from Neem, a tree known for it’s innumerable benefits. AzaMax contains Azadirachtin A&B as active ingredients and more than 100 limonoids from it’s special technology. The special feature of AzaMax is that it does not use hard chemical solvents and uses food grade formulation ingredients. AzaMax is licensed in all 50 states.
AzaMax is an antifeedant and insect growth regulator and controls pests through starvation and growth disruption. AzaMax effectively controls spider mites, thrips, fungus gnats, aphids, whiteflies, leaf miners, worms, beetles, leafhoppers, scales, mealy bugs, nematodes and other soil borne pests. Best of all, AzaMax can be applied up to the time or day of harvest. The product is exempted from residue tolerance, thus there is no harmful residue on veggies, fruits, herbs and flowers etc. Truly, AzaMax is a product of Nature in tune with Technology.

It's OMRI Listed.
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
i saw the azamax but i went with the dynagro 100% neem oil. ill be applying it both foliar and thru the soil.

I was telling you about ph issues earlier, NO MAS.
that BioTerraPlus is good stuff.

Also i have one nutrient solution mix sitting in a 5 gal bucket with an airstone. It sat out for a couple days. it has the great white, some rhizo, bioveg, molasses. Is this considered a AACT tea now, since its aerated? or whats a good veganic AACT reciepe?
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
i remeber hearing no just any liquid soap will do, what kind of liquid soap should i use with the neem?

and thanks for all the info on neem. prevention is the key!!
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
The soap is used as a dispersant so make sure it's dish soap, a good one you can see through. Just a few drops is fine. To truly get the power of neem you need to do all your plants. If you clone, try to spray 1 or 2 days ahead of time, this protects the clones in two ways, bug deterrent and covers the leaf with a thin coating that helps keep in moisture. It is also good for your plants health.

My humble apologies Matt for jacking this part of your thread.
 

BCcannabis

Well-Known Member
Hey Matt,
Thanks for the write you have lots of good information, i am about halfway thorugh the thread. On my last grow i used general organics with very tastey results, how do you feel about this product line?
For my next grow i might try some different nutes and make some teas as well.
+rep
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
The soap is used as a dispersant so make sure it's dish soap, a good one you can see through. Just a few drops is fine. To truly get the power of neem you need to do all your plants. If you clone, try to spray 1 or 2 days ahead of time, this protects the clones in two ways, bug deterrent and covers the leaf with a thin coating that helps keep in moisture. It is also good for your plants health.

My humble apologies Matt for jacking this part of your thread.
Hey sall good man. I don't like to use soap and prefer actual horticulture surfactants. ie cocowet, wet betty, or just yucca juice from the health store.
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
is earth juice catalyst a good surfactant to use for neem oil application, and would i use this with my seaplex foliar feeding as well??
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
What medium are you using for your veganic grow since BTP is no longer carried in the US?
I ordered a palette of bioterra plus. I'm planing on reusing it, and amending it until the aggregates structure breaks down. Here is an example of a huge peat aggregate:



But that isn't a fair answer. Kushman is planning on using coconot. I'm not going to suggest that product as I found it sucks pH wise, structurally, CEC ect.

I used to mix 1 part FoxFarm Ocean Forest with 3 parts Happy Frog and a scoop of perlite. That worked forever. Then I switched to Bioterra Plus, which is a different world. After I run out of Bioterra plus I'll be going back that direction. Possibly without the perlite and with some coco. But right now I am using BioTerra Plus with a little grade 3 perlite.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
is earth juice catalyst a good surfactant to use for neem oil application, and would i use this with my seaplex foliar feeding as well??
Earth Juice Catalyst is not a surfactant. It is a metabolism aid (catalyst), and helps plants grow fast.
I like to spray either neem or nutrients (the seaplex in your case). Sprayed neem today, the one of the babies had a little PM spot.
Earth Juice Catalyst is a premium organic nutrient additive that encourages compact branching, stimulates optimal fruiting sites, and triggers early yields. Contains enzymes, hormones, vitamins, amino acids, nutrients and surfactants to complete your fertilization program. Catalyst conditions soils and hydroponic solutions for better nutrient availability. Best to use in conjunction with other NPK fertilizers. Mix 3 tbsp. per gallon of water. OMRI Listed for use in organic production.

Ingredients: Oat bran, kelp, wheat malt, molasses, and yeast.
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
hey matt whats a good veganic compost tea receipe. one that doesnt have guano, or worm castings. I searched on google but all that came up was this G.H florablend

FloraBlend Vegan Compost Tea

Vegan Formula - 100% plant and mineral based. FloraBlend is a compost tea that is fermented from a select blend of plant materials plus seaweed and rock powders. This highly soluble organic solution increases and promotes healthy root structures, builds the plants immune system and provides carbon building blocks for plant processes responsible for color and flavor of fruits and vegetables. FloraBlend contains no animal derived ingredients.

Directions for Use:
Apply during germination, with cuttings, plus the vegetative, flowering and ripening stages of plant growth.

Soil: Add 1-2 teaspoons per gallon of water, then apply according to your normal watering schedule
EDIT: Ingredients: Alfalfa meal, brewers yeast, cottonseed meal, potassium sulfate, rock phosphate, sea kelp, soybean meal.
 

Jharris

Member
Is it better to transfer multiple times depending on the size of the plant? Cups,4*4, then 3 gallons? Is it better for watering/feeding. I thought less transfers the better! If you have deficiencies but it's not time to water do you foliar feed? Is the bio vega a weak nutrient should there be a supplement?
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
hey matt whats a good veganic compost tea receipe. one that doesnt have guano, or worm castings. I searched on google but all that came up was this G.H florablend
EDIT: Ingredients: Alfalfa meal, brewers yeast, cottonseed meal, potassium sulfate, rock phosphate, sea kelp, soybean meal.
Hey, thanks for that post about texashydroponics.com and bioterra plus

I like to use my own compost, from vegetables. It's really easy to make, just some old potting soil and veggie scraps. Vermicompost is good if the worms were fed vegetables, and can easily be made at home. Mayan microzyme from Humboldt Nutes is interesting, a couple species of bacteria that are not normally found in mixed inoculants.

I have to point out that when I brew tea all I use is compost, molasses, and yucca extract. I do not add meals and rocks. I use bottled nutes (biocanna mostly) for nutrition, and teas for inoculations. They do not get mixed, but fed separately.

If you are going to be brewing your own nutes, then that is something different than brewing AACT or ACT (acitve aeration compost tea). FPE (fermented plant extracts) is the side of brewing that releases nutrients from plants fermenting, aka making your own nutes. Spanishfly (here on RIU) has a good thread on DIY fermented plant extracts using Russian comfrey.
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Is it better to transfer multiple times depending on the size of the plant? Cups,4*4, then 3 gallons? Is it better for watering/feeding. I thought less transfers the better! If you have deficiencies but it's not time to water do you foliar feed? Is the bio vega a weak nutrient should there be a supplement?
I prefer more transplants. I know how and when to do it without damage, or even stunting of any kind. Auto-flower varieties obviously are easier to run with less transplants.

Foliar feeding for deficiencies is crucial, especially the immobile elements. I foliar feed whenever I have time, up to 4 weeks into flower (depending on length of flower).

biovega is good, may need more N, but shouldn't. This of course depends on your media, and how root bound you run.
 

sharpshoota

Active Member
alright so i think i am on the right track, just not sure which bucket some supplements and zymes would go in...

So right now have the aereated bucket with nutrition (all bio series from canna) and supplemental nutes in one , and another aerated bucket in the other stuff like great white, molasses, humega (humic acid),

i have hygrozyme, seaplex, cannazyme, rhizo. as well, which bucket would they go??

also which bucket would be best for humbolt honey es? Im not using it yet, unless its not a bad idea, just curious.

damn i ask so many questions i might as well have you come over and grow my bud haha
 
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