Vote yes prop 19

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
I hope it passes. If it doesn't, I doubt it ever will become legal. This is the best chance. Most people voting against this bill are most likely non pot smokers. They could care less about the problems that the bill may have (Ones Interpretation). Only med patients and hardcore tokers follow that side of the story. Most none voters are guided by their own feeling of "Ethical behavior" and pot is not part of their acceptable behavior. Any other bill that comes along that is less restrictive has zero chance of ever passing. Also because California has huge financial problems the argument that it will help the state financially pushes more none smokers towards the idea of legalization. Once the states financial problem dwindles down there is nothing. The slowing of momentum of a financial incentive will make any/if not all future legislation for legalization almost impossible.


as you all sit here and argue, it flies right over your head, .........................


Governor signs bill to downgrade pot possession to an infraction




Posted at 12:23 AM on Sunday, Oct. 03, 2010

By Peter Hecht - [email protected]

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  • Having 1 ounce of pot now like a speeding ticket
    Having 1 ounce of pot now like a speeding ticket


    Possessing up to an ounce of marijuana in California is now no more serious than getting a speeding ticket.
    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a law late Thursday that reduces possession of an ounce or less from a misdemeanor to an infraction, with a maximum punishment of a $100 fine.
    Even as a misdemeanor, possession of up to an ounce of pot was still punishable only by a $100 fine and no jail time. But offenders also faced arrest, a possible court appearance and a criminal record.
  • Small-time pot possession in Calif no longer crime
    Small-time pot possession in Calif no longer crime


    Possessing up to an ounce of marijuana in California is now no more serious than getting a speeding ticket.
    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill late Thursday that reduces possession of an ounce or less of marijuana from a misdemeanor to an infraction.
    The maximum punishment is a $100 fine.
  • Pot possession in Calif. now like speeding ticket
    Pot possession in Calif. now like speeding ticket


    A new law makes possessing up to an ounce of marijuana in California no more serious than getting a speeding ticket - a development both sides battling over a marijuana legalization ballot measure hope to exploit with the vote just a month away.
    The law signed late Thursday by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger reduces possession of an ounce or less of pot from a misdemeanor to an infraction with a maximum punishment of a $100 fine.
    Even as a misdemeanor, possession of up to an ounce was still punishable only by a $100 fine and no jail time. But offenders also faced arrest, a possible court appearance and a criminal record.
  • Pot poll finds weed has grown on California
    Pot poll finds weed has grown on California


    John Wade, 43, a San Francisco commercial lighting specialist, takes a quick hit from a marijuana cigarette on the golf course to steady himself before putting.
    Sarika Simmons, 35, of San Diego County, sometimes unwinds after the kids are asleep with tokes from a fruit-flavored cigar filled with pot.
    And retiree Robert Girvetz, 78, of San Juan Capistrano, recently started anew -- replacing his occasional martini with marijuana.
  • Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot
    Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot


    California has a long history of defying conventional wisdom on the issue of marijuana, including its embrace of the drug in the 1960s and its landmark medical pot law 14 years ago. So it may not be all that surprising that a November ballot measure to legalize the drug has created some odd alliances and scenarios.
    Pot growers have opposed it. Some police have favored it. Polls show the public is deeply divided. Only politicians have lined up as expected: Nearly all major party candidates oppose the measure. And hanging over the whole debate is the fact that marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
    As the Nov. 2 election nears, Proposition 19 has become about much more than the pros and cons of the drug itself. The campaigns have framed the vote as a referendum on everything from jobs and taxes to crime and the environment.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed legislation reducing the crime of possession of an ounce of marijuana to an infraction from a misdemeanor.
The action hands a victory to marijuana advocates weeks before November's statewide vote on whether to legalize pot for recreational use.
Senate Bill 1449 by Sen. Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, does not reduce penalties since misdemeanor possession of less than an ounce was already punishable as an infraction under state law. Offenders faced fines of $100.
Still, marijuana advocates say, by removing the misdemeanor tag, the bill will significantly reduce the number of cases in California courts.
The law will take effect Jan. 1, meaning it may be superseded – at least for Californians over age 21 – by the November legalization measure.


Call Peter Hecht, Bee Capitol Bureau, (916) 326-5539.





Some law enforcement lobbyists fought the bill, arguing that judges would no longer be able to reduce punishment in exchange for defendants entering drug treatment.
Dr. Paul Chabot, founder of the Coalition for a Drug Free California, also protested the signing, saying: "This sends the wrong message to kids and communities."
Schwarzenegger said he signed Leno's bill because "possession of less than an ounce of marijuana is infraction in everything but name."
Yet Schwarzenegger has said that he strongly opposes Proposition 19, which would legalize marijuana for recreational use for residents over 21, allow small residential cultivation and permit local taxation of retail pot sales.
"Unfortunately, Proposition 19 is a deeply flawed measure … that will adversely impact California's businesses without bringing in the tax revenues to the state promised by its proponents," the governor said in his bill-signing statement.




Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/10/03/2102734/governor-signs-bill-to-downgrade.html#ixzz11gw3Ih7V
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
Oh yes there is a need for a new law. LEGAL MMJ patients are being put in jail right now, I guess you just won't admit it. Prop 19 will help to stop the pigs who are harassing us. If you were put in jail, or simply had your plants taken, you would vote yes.
And Prop. 19 starts putting more of them into jail again. As of now, the limits set forth in SB 420 are unconstitutional because state legislation can not be used to limit voter initiatives. Another voter initiative however does have the power to modify and establish those limits. That's loss of protection and opening the door for new rounds of harassment.

Thanks for that, Rob. You actually understand the macro viewpoint, and can see the whole picture. Just like the head of NORML says, and it's so important that I put his quote in my sig.

:mrgreen:
If that were the case, then more than just the about a dozen other states would have passed decriminalization bills like California has. But hey it's only been 35 years... I'm sure the other 37 will be along shortly. Or how about the ground-breaking marijuana statutes that have only hit about 13 other states. Again, I'm sure the majority of the country is just biding their time. Never mind that Prop. 19 has no impact on federal policy, nor is there any historical precedent to back up any claim that it will. Irrelevant emotive pleas aside, there's no rational reason to take the rights away from adults under the age of 21, no reason to trust that municipal and law enforcement agencies aren't going to abuse the new "limits" (because they have a distinct history of doing just that), and no reason to think that commercialization will improve the cannabis industry, as imperfect as it is (I'm not sure how many times people are going to have to be poisoned or have their overall health impaired by commercial products before they get that). Maybe you proponents aren't looking at a big enough picture.
 

Steadmanclan

Well-Known Member
wow..

you anti 19 kids are so confused. spewing absolute bullshit.

Who is supporting the anti prop 19 campaign?
Prison guard unions, for profit prisons, alchohol companies, tobacco companies, Police officers, prosecutors, judges, DEA, FDA, people who have a financial interest in keeping herb illegal (dispensary owners/the growers who supply them, and people who deal to the black market), and the ultra religious right.

Who supports it?
Rational people who value freedom over tyranny. NORML, MPP, SAFER, LEAP, and all those who feel that cannabis should be available to all people without a Dr.'s recomendation.

I may have missed a few of the other unsavories, but I think this list speaks for itself.

A vote against prop 19 will put you in good company huh??
 

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
and you should be allowed more than an ounce, but YOU'LL take whatever you can get. right? ;)
There are a lot of steps in climbing this mountain. Take what you can get, it is politics.

and you should be allowed to carry hash because it is clean, safe, and you can medicate in <5 minutes (non-solvent hash because of the legal concerns according to Sarah from ASA).
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of steps in climbing this mountain. Take what you can get, it is politics.

and you should be allowed to carry hash because it is clean, safe, and you can medicate in <5 minutes (non-solvent hash because of the legal concerns according to Sarah from ASA).

my point exactly. we should be praising what arnold did. :clap:
 

Steadmanclan

Well-Known Member
and you should be allowed more than an ounce, but YOU'LL take whatever you can get. right? ;)
I'll start with making it legal.. yeah I'll take that.

you need to carry more than an ounce when you go out?
can a cop use the smell of cannabis as probable cause to search you?
you think people should be required a doctors note so as not to be considered a criminal?

I am thankful for what Arnold did, it's just not enough.
seems like a deterrent for the unintelligent.. with that, why vote for 19 right?
you can carry an ounce or less and it will only be a civil infaction!! Yay!! WooooHoooo!! That's better than an ounce or less being legal right?


You don't make a single good point.
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
I'll start with making it legal.. yeah I'll take that.

you need to carry more than an ounce when you go out?
can a cop use the smell of cannabis as probable cause to search you?
you think people should be required a doctors note so as not to be considered a criminal?

I am thankful for what Arnold did, it's just not enough.
seems like a deterrent for the unintelligent.. with that, why vote for 19 right?
you can carry an ounce or less and it will only be a civil infaction!! Yay!! WooooHoooo!! That's better than an ounce or less being legal right?


You don't make a single good point.

19 isn't enough either. so as you blow off what arnold did, and i'll blow off 19. ;)
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
I'll start with making it legal.. yeah I'll take that.

you need to carry more than an ounce when you go out?
can a cop use the smell of cannabis as probable cause to search you?
you think people should be required a doctors note so as not to be considered a criminal?

I am thankful for what Arnold did, it's just not enough.
seems like a deterrent for the unintelligent.. with that, why vote for 19 right?
you can carry an ounce or less and it will only be a civil infaction!! Yay!! WooooHoooo!! That's better than an ounce or less being legal right?


You don't make a single good point.
If you want it legal Vote No on 19- 19 creates more marijuana crimes and puts more in prisons for marijuana felonies. prop 19 creates more restrictions on marijuana and marijuana users.
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
that's not true.

have you even read the prop beardo?? I really doubt it.
I have read the prop-how is what I said in anyway untrue? I believe their counting on peoples ingorance and missguided trust to get the " bill to legalize marijuana" passed. If you read it and understand it then you understand it is not legalization and nowhere does it say legalization in prop 19. Dennis Peron and Jack Herer oppose prop 19 and they were responsible for helping to make all the progress we have seen in the marijuana movement.
 

Serapis

Well-Known Member
I have read the prop-how is what I said in anyway untrue? I believe their counting on peoples ingorance and missguided trust to get the " bill to legalize marijuana" passed. If you read it and understand it then you understand it is not legalization and nowhere does it say legalization in prop 19. Dennis Peron and Jack Herer oppose prop 19 and they were responsible for helping to make all the progress we have seen in the marijuana movement.
Yep, and NORML, Ed Rosenthal, and plenty of retired police captains, chiefs, sheriffs, etc support it. The list is bleow

National Black Police Association
San Jose Police Chief Joseph McNamara (Ret.)
Seattle Police Chief and San Diego Deputy Police Chief Norm Stamper (Ret.)
Former Los Angeles Deputy Police Chief Stephen Downing
Former Los Angeles Police Department Sergeant and Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney William John Cox
Former Contra Costa County Deputy Sheriff David Sinclair
Former Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff MacKenzie Allen
Former Los Angeles Deputy Sheriff Jeff Studdard
Former Sutter County Deputy Sheriff Nate Bradley
Former Yolo County Resident Deputy Sheriff Danny Maynard
Humboldt County Sheriff&#8217;s Captain Stephen Cobine (Ret.)
Orange County Superior Court Judge James P. Gray (Ret.)
San Francisco District Attorney Terence Hallinan (Ret.)
Former Senior Humboldt County Deputy District Attorney and Prosecutor Jeffrey Schwartz
Former Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney and California Administrative Law Judge Mike Schmier
Riverside County Deputy District Attorney Walter Clark (Ret.)
Former Orange County Senior Reserve Park Ranger L. Lawrence Baird
Oakland City Attorney John Russo
Former Community Prosecutor James Anthony, Oakland City Attorney&#8217;s Office
Los Angeles Police Department Narcotics Detective David Doddridge (Ret.)
Former San Jose Police Department Narcotics Detective Russ Jones
Former Los Angeles Senior Police Specialist Walter McKay
United States Air Force Security Forces Officer John Darker, Anderson, CA
Former United States Military Police Officer Dr. Nina Graves, Santa Barbara, CA
United States Navy Officer and Intelligence Specialist Larry Talley (Ret.)
California Correctional Peace Officer William Baldwin (Ret.)
California Correctional Peace Officer Madeline Martinez (Ret.)
Mohave County Deputy Probation Officer Joe Miller (Ret.)
Former Lakeport Police Officer Rick Erickson
Former San Francisco Police Officer Bill Dake
Former Torrance Police Officer Kyle Kazan
Former Massachusetts Assistant Attorney General John Amabile, Tisbury, MA
Atlanta, Georgia State&#8217;s Attorney Jay Fisher
Former American Samoa Attorney General&#8217;s Office Chief Prosecutor and Municipal Prosecutor for Washington Cities Jim Doherty
New Jersey State Police Detective Lieutenant Jack Cole (Ret.)
New Hampshire State Police Officer Paul MacLean (Ret.)
Retired Bristol, Vermont Police Chief and Saint Albans, Vermont Police Chief Tim Datig
Former Deputy Sheriff Leo E. Laurence, J.D., Central Missouri
Former Reserve Deputy Sheriff and Corrections Officer Dwayne Sessom, Lawton, Oklahoma
Former Davis County, Utah Deputy Constable Bret Black
Retired Washington Superior Court Judge David Nichols
Retired Police Captain Peter Christ, Syracuse, New York.
Former Spokane, Washington Police Department Narcotics Investigator Jay Fleming
Former Corrections Official Michael Gilbert, San Antonio, Texas
Former Department of Corrections Sniper and K-9 Narcotics Dog Trainer Rusty White, Bridgeport, Texas
National Black Police Association Executive Director and former Washington, DC Metropolitan Police Officer Ronald Hampton
Former Baltimore Police Officer Peter Moskos
Burlington, Ontario, Canada Law Enforcement Officer Alison Myrden (Ret.)
Law Enforcement Officer Tony Ryan (Ret.), Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Physicians and Doctors

United States Surgeon General Dr. Joycelyn Elders, MD (Ret.)
Dr. Larry Bedard, Former President of the American College of Emergency Physicians*, Sausalito, CA
Dr. Newton Harband, Retired Oncologist, Past President, Stanford Medical School Alumni Association*, San Rafael, CA
Dr. Daniel Susott, MD, MPH, Medical Director, World Family Foundation*, San Francisco, CA
Dr. Floyd Huen, MD, Board of Trustees, Alameda County Medical Center, Oakland, CA
Mitch Earleywine, Ph.D., Associate Professor of Psychology, State University of New York at Albany
Dr. Lester Grinspoon, MD, Emeritus Professor of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, Norfolk, MA
Dr. Julie Holland, MD, Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, NYU School of Medicine, New York
Dr, Leonard Krivitsky, MD, DD, Addiction Medicine Specialist, Philadelphia, PA
Dr. Frank H. Lucido, MD, Family Practitioner, Berkeley, CA
Arthur M. Strosberg, Ph. D., Pharmaceutical Industry Consultant, Foster City, CA
Dr. Sunil Aggarwal, MD, PhD, Seattle, WA
Dr. Christopher Fichtner, MD, Hemet, CA
Stephen Frye, M.D., Psychiatrist, Las Vegas, Nevada
Economists and Business Leaders

Harvard Economist Jeffrey Miron
Michael D. Whitty, Ph.D., Adjunct Professor, University of San Francisco School of Business and Management
Elected Officials

Congressman Pete Stark (CA-13)
Congressman Dan Hamburg (CA-1) (Ret.)
Congressman Pete McCloskey (CA-11) (Ret.)
California State Senate President Pro Tem Don Perata (Ret.)
California State Senator Mark Leno
California State Senator Tom Hayden (Ret.)
California State Assemblymember Tom Ammiano
California State Assemblymember Hector De La Torre
California State Assemblymember Kerry Mazzoni (Ret.)
Alameda County Supervisor Nate Miley
Mendocino County Supervisor John Pinches
San Francisco Supervisor David Campos
San Francisco Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi
Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates
Fairfax Vice Mayor Larry Bragman
The Berkeley City Council
The Oakland City Council
The West Hollywood City Council
Arcata City Councilmember Shane Brinton
Berkeley City Councilmember Kriss Worthington
Berkeley City Councilmember Darryl Moore
Hayward City Councilmember Bill Quirk
Oakland City Councilmember Rebecca Kaplan
Oakland City Councilmember Jean Quan
Oakland City Councilmember Pat Kernighan
Oakland City Councilmember Larry Reid
Oakland City Councilmember Nancy Nadel
West Hollywood City Councilmember John Duran
Windsor Town Councilmember Debora Fudge
Palm Springs Unified School District Board Member Justin Blake
AC Transit Board President Rocky Fernandez
East Bay Municipal Utility District Board President Doug Linney
Water Replenishment District of Southern California Director Rob Katherman
Modoc County Democratic Central Committee Chair Thomas Romero
Alameda County Democratic Central Committee Member Edie Irons
California Republican Party Delegate David LaTour
Organizations

California NAACP
League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC)
California Libertarian Party
California Green Party
Peace and Freedom Party of California
California Young Democrats
Progressive Democrats of America
Republican Liberty Caucus
ACLU of Northern California
ACLU of Southern California
ACLU of San Diego
California 16th Assembly District Democrats
Alameda County Democratic Party
Butte County Democratic Party
Los Angeles County Democratic Party
Madera County Democratic Party
Modoc County Democratic Party
Monterey County Democratic Party
Orange County Democratic Party
Placer County Democratic Party
San Francisco Democratic Party
Siskiyou County Democratic Party
Sonoma County Democratic Party
Democratic Party of the San Fernando Valley
Latino Democrats of Stanislaus County
Progressive Democrats of Stanislaus County
Desert Stonewall Democrats of Palm Springs
Castro Valley Democratic Club
Culver City Democratic Club
West Hollywood/Beverly Hills Democratic Club
Irish American Democratic Club of San Francisco
Democratic Women's Forum of San Francisco
San Francisco Young Democrats
District 3 Democratic Club
Richmond District Democratic Club
Alice B. Toklas Democratic Club
Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club
Potrero Hill Democratic Club
Robert F. Kennedy Democratic Club
Wellstone Democratic Renewal Club
Valley Progressives
Libertarian Party of Orange County
Libertarian Party of Riverside County
Courage Campaign
CREDO Action
Calitics
The Greenlining Institute
Humboldt Center for Constitutional Rights
San Francisco for Democracy Political Action Committee
San Francisco Women&#8217;s Political Committee
The LA Gay & Lesbian Center
NAACP Congress Against Racism & Corruption in Law Enforcement (CARCLE)
William C. Velasquez Institute
Latino Voters League
A New PATH (Parents for Addiction Treatment and Healing)
Bay Area Chapter of Education Not Incarceration
Idriss Stelley Action & Resource Center
Labor

Service Employees International Union (SEIU) of California
United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), Western States Council
International Longshore & Warehouse Union (ILWU), Northern California District Council
Central Labor Council of Butte-Glenn Counties (AFL-CIO)
Communications Workers of America (CWA), Local 9415
Instituto Laboral De La Raza
Labor Council for Latin American Advancement (LCLAA), San Francisco Chapter
Sign Displays, Local 510
Michael Hardeman, Business Representative, Sign Displays, Local 510
John Roe, UFCW, Local 5*
Dan Rush, UFCW, Local 5*
Brian Webster, Staff Assistant, Instituto Laboral De La Raza
Faith Leaders

California Council of Churches IMPACT
Interfaith Drug Policy Initiative
Karen Gilman, Women of Temple Israel of Hollywood*
Rev. Bryan Griem, Pastor of Montrose Community Church*, Montrose, CA
Rabbi Jeffrey Kahn, Clergy Against Prohibition*
Jane Marcus, Ph.D., Board Member, Women of Reform Judaism*, Palo Alto, CA
The Rev. Canon Mary Moreno Richardson, Episcopal Diocese of San Diego*
Curtis D. Robinson, Sr., President, Girls Inc, WCCC*, Richmond, CA
Rev. Dr. Rick Schlosser, Executive Director, California Council of Churches IMPACT, Sacramento, CA
Dennis Shields, Minister, The Religion of Jesus Church*, Captain Cook, H
 
I will vote YES even if the proposition has flaws. It is a step in the right direction. Once its passed, we can continue to work towards refining it. I think the important thing is to get the general populus used to marijuana bein LEGAL for recreational purposes. As they become more and more comfortable with the idea, the easier it will be to make the law eventually be what we all desire it to be. BUT if we stand by and do nothing or vote NO against it, we are defeating ourselves. Is'nt that a great war tactic, "to have dissention within the ranks"? This is a great way to for all of us to be defeated. I urge you all to vote YES in spite of the flaws...IT IS a STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. IF WE CONTINUE TO DO WHAT WE HAVE ALWAYS DONE, THE RESULTS WILL BE THE SAME! Let's not lose this opportunity!

Rome was not built in a day...neither was our country or state. Let's all unite and work together!​
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
Yep, and NORML, Ed Rosenthal, and plenty of retired police captains, chiefs, sheriffs, etc support it. The list is bleow
That kind of sums it up Ed Rosenthal who is a marijuana profiteer who went to the first cannabis cup and was involved in stealing the idea for the isolator hash making machine and now he has tried to pattent marijuana I think with sateviex but with some drug companie -G.W. pharmacuticles? he signed a deal and is trying to own marijuana and have laws enacted to his profit-him and a bunch of cops who make a living off of arresting people now i really want to vote for it.
 

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
That kind of sums it up Ed Rosenthal who is a marijuana profiteer who went to the first cannabis and stole the idea for the isolator hash making machine and now he has tried to pattent marijuana I think with sateviex but with some drug companie he signed a deal and is trying to own marijuana and have laws enacted to his profit-him and a bunch of cops who make a living off of arresting people now i really want to vote for it. And somehow I think your list of supporters is bogus Harvey Milk??? Really he's dead...Is his ghost pro 19?
Damn... they aren't even waiting until the election to start with the fraud? Ain't capitalism grand?
 
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