VP Debate Tonight.

beenthere · Oct 12, 2012

UncleBuck said:
check the twin studies, clayton.

Glad you brought it up, why don't you post the findings!

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

beenthere said:
LMAO biological reality? Show me conclusive proof to support this foolish claim.

Speaking of supporting your claims, remember you were going to give some proof of Americans paying an effective tax rate of 60-90% when the economy was doing so well?

I recall saying something along the lines of my not being willing to go to the trouble when you don't answer my challenges.

Yes, a biological reality - or do you remember the day you "decided" to be straight.

beenthere · Oct 12, 2012

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:
sorry, *Bible* not 'Babble', my southern accent didn't translate well lol. i don't think it is as simple as you imagine, we clearly haven't found a singular cause to what dictates sexual orientation and gender identity, the evidence as to whether its caused by hormones, environmental causes or simply genetics. there are many debated ideas, overlapping and conflicting.

what do you think causes these traits in humans and the rest of the natural world? because if we are going to find out, it would help if we observed nature, in which homosexuality is common, especially in the higher intelligence mammals like dolphins, elephants, apes, felines, dogs and bears, birds

I'm not one to paint things with a broad brush, with that said I believe there are many determining factors and I refuse to believe that all gays are gay for one single reason.
But the main point I was trying to make was, there are NO conclusive scientific studies linking homosexuality to genetics, it just isn't true.

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

beenthere said:
I'm not one to paint things with a broad brush, with that said I believe there are many determining factors and I refuse to believe that all gays are gay for one single reason.
But the main point I was trying to make was, there are NO conclusive scientific studies linking homosexuality to genetics, it just isn't true.

Nature, or nurture, rarely choice.

beenthere · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
I recall saying something along the lines of my not being willing to go to the trouble when you don't answer my challenges.

Yes, a biological reality - or do you remember the say you "decided" to be straight.

Not so canndo, you said you never thought of the rate being effective and commented on it by saying that was an interesting point and would get back to me with your findings. You never did!

Again canndo, this all conjecture on your part, if you are so confident, then post up your proof!

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

beenthere said:
Not so canndo, you said you never thought of the rate being effective and commented on it by saying that was an interesting point and would get back to me with your findings. You never did!

Again canndo, this all conjecture on your part, if you are so confident, then post up your proof!

There is as yet no absolute evidence that homosexuality is exclusively genetic, precisely as you state.

There is no firm evidence that homosexuality is the product of nurture alone.

However, logic would indicate that if it is not genetic, and it is not nurture, then it must be choice. If indeed homosexuality is a product of choice then there is no predisposition either way so I will ask you again, at what age did you voluntarily decided to like women? And could you possibly imagine anyone, at any time deciding to change his sexual orientation after having happily been one orientation or another.

I posit that you cannot honestly do so. Of course this is anecdotal in the extreme but that is about all we have to go on.\

And now that you have refreshed my memory, you are correct about my statement over the 90 percent effective rate.

althor · Oct 12, 2012

There is no doubt in my mind that there are some people who are born gay.
I am not saying all homosexuals are born gay but there are some. You can see it in them from the time they are old enough to begin expressing themselves. Generally suprises no one but their parents when they come out of the closet.

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

Omgwtfbbq Indicaman said:
there are several gay genes, most people have a few, and like genes that determine behavior or sex orientation, its a matter of genetics, not "choice", some people are bisexual, that is not the same thing as gay, and likely a genetic predisposition too.

Odd assertion that has never been proven, that there is "a" gay gene. Now you claim there are several? You should apply for the Nobel, as you seem to have proven something no one else has even proposed. Or you could just be spouting nonsense.

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

althor said:
There is no doubt in my mind that there are some people who are born gay.
I am not saying all homosexuals are born gay but there are some. You can see it in them from the time they are old enough to begin expressing themselves. Generally suprises no one but their parents when they come out of the closet.

I can usually tell when they get married to each other.

beenthere · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
There is as yet no absolute evidence that homosexuality is exclusively genetic, precisely as you state.

There is no firm evidence that homosexuality is the product of nurture alone.

However, logic would indicate that if it is not genetic, and it is not nurture, then it must be choice. If indeed homosexuality is a product of choice then there is no predisposition either way so I will ask you again, at what age did you voluntarily decided to like women? And could you possibly imagine anyone, at any time deciding to change his sexual orientation after having happily been one orientation or another.

I posit that you cannot honestly do so. Of course this is anecdotal in the extreme but that is about all we have to go on.\

And now that you have refreshed my memory, you are correct about my statement over the 90 percent effective rate.

Wow, thank you for being honest on both points canndo.

As far as what I believe, again I will state that I do not put much stock into the notion that all gay people are gay or become gay for one or the same reason.

I also reject your premise of "nature or nurture" only, there are many other environmental factors missing in that reasoning.

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

ginjawarrior said:
when you next have a clear head have a look back thru this thread. what i think you'll find is a permanent record of your own fustration an eternal view into your mind *for everyone else* imagine anyone you know taking this much time to question another persons sex life... would you say they have got something invested in it?

Where did I question his sex life? It's not like it was a secret or something. I called him out on his gold digging, not his sexual preferences. You, however, spent a lot of time espousing your supposed intimate knowledge of my thoughts, of which you know absolutely nothing. But that's never stopped from running your mouth before, has it?

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
Nature, or nurture, rarely choice.

Clearly choice is involved, or are you contending sex is always an involuntary act?

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
I can usually tell when they get married to each other.

What do make of those who marry the opposite sex, as most have done throughout recorded history?

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

Red1966 said:
Clearly choice is involved, or are you contending sex is always an involuntary act?

choice of sexual preference? rarely.

canndo · Oct 12, 2012

Red1966 said:
What do make of those who marry the opposite sex, as most have done throughout recorded history?

They must be heterosexual - hey, it was a JOKE.

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
There is as yet no absolute evidence that homosexuality is exclusively genetic, precisely as you state. There is no firm evidence that homosexuality is the product of nurture alone. However, logic would indicate that if it is not genetic, and it is not nurture, then it must be choice. If indeed homosexuality is a product of choice then there is no predisposition either way so I will ask you again, at what age did you voluntarily decided to like women? And could you possibly imagine anyone, at any time deciding to change his sexual orientation after having happily been one orientation or another. I posit that you cannot honestly do so. Of course this is anecdotal in the extreme but that is about all we have to go on.\ And now that you have refreshed my memory, you are correct about my statement over the 90 percent effective rate.

"And could you possibly imagine anyone, at any time deciding to change his sexual orientation after having happily been one orientation or another." I know of several who have done this exact thing. Both male and female. Your statement causes me to suspect you have little or no contact with any gays, only a "sanitized" narrative that doesn't exist in the real world.

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
choice of sexual preference? rarely.

You didn't answer the question. If you don't want to answer, just say so. Your statements so far indicate you DO believe sex to be an involuntary act. Once again, are you claiming sex is an involuntary act?

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

canndo said:
They must be heterosexual - hey, it was a JOKE.

Fair enough, so was my comment. Apparently, neither of us has the "funny" gene.

UncleBuck · Oct 12, 2012

Red1966 said:
You didn't answer the question. If you don't want to answer, just say so. Your statements so far indicate you DO believe sex to be an involuntary act. Once again, are you claiming sex is an involuntary act?

if sexual orientation is a choice, when did you decide to become a pedophile?

Red1966 · Oct 12, 2012

Buck, however, has the "shit my jeans"

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