War

printer

Well-Known Member
Pope urges ceasefire in Ukraine ahead of invasion anniversary
Feb 22 (Reuters) - Pope Francis, speaking two days before the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, on Wednesday called for a ceasefire and peace negotiations, saying no victory could be "built on ruins".

Francis, who has appealed for an end to violence in Ukraine at nearly every public appearance since Russia's invasion of the country on Feb. 24, 2022, spoke at his weekly general audience at the Vatican.

"It has been a year since the start of this absurd and cruel war, a sad anniversary," he said.

"The number of dead, wounded, refugees and displaced people, the (amount of) destruction and economic and social damage speak for themselves," Francis said.

Ukraine's ambassador to the Vatican, Andrii Yurash, attended the audience along with a delegation of Ukrainian officials.

"May the Lord forgive so many crimes and so much violence. He is the God of peace. Let us remain close to the martyred Ukrainian people who continue to suffer," Francis said.

Francis has rejected Russia's assertion that its military presence in Ukraine was part of a "special operation," condemning what he has described as atrocities and the killing of civilians.

A day after major speeches on Ukraine by U.S. President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the pope said: "Let us ask ourselves: has everything possible been done to stop the war? I appeal to everyone who has authority over nations to commit themselves in a concrete way to end the conflict, to reach a ceasefire and start peace negotiations".

He added: "That which is built on ruins can never be a real victory".

A peace plan proposed by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last year called for a restoration of territorial integrity and for Russia to reaffirm it according to the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said was "not up to negotiations".

It also demanded a withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities.

Pope Francis drew up a plan for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine
Pope Francis has developed a plan for a peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine, the chairman of the World Union of Old Believers (ARC) Leonid Sevastyanov, who maintains correspondence with the pontiff, told RIA Novosti.

It is clarified that the initiative contains the thesis of equal responsibility for any conflict. The goal of the plan is proclaimed a long and just peace, the guarantee of which will be inclusiveness, respect for culture and language and cooperation for all, including Russia , Ukraine and Europe . The priorities will be the preservation of life and health of people, as well as the non-participation of foreign countries in arming the participants in the conflict. The pontiff called the negotiations, which are proposed to be held in the Vatican, an instrument for achieving peace.

"One world for all! The reason for any war is selfishness and unwillingness to hear the interlocutor, therefore, in any war, in any conflict, everyone is to blame (Dostoevsky). Reconciliation and mutual forgiveness is the main Christian virtue. The Holy See - the Vatican - is a negotiating platform for everyone. Rome is a city of peace! The goal of the negotiations is a long and just peace for all," the plan says.

Sevastyanov noted that the text was recorded from the words of Pope Francis, who assured him today.

Human life, according to the statements of the pontiff, cannot be instrumentalized. "The life and health of citizens is the main goal of the existence of the state. The protection of people's lives is the goal of any government. There is no goal for which the life and health of a person, a citizen can be sacrificed," he stressed.

One world for all without walls and borders is the guarantee of a just world. “Russia, Ukraine and Europe are part of a single inclusive world for all! Instead of war, there is cooperation and building a single fair socio-economic space. The culture, language, nationality and faith of any person must be protected and respected,” the text says.

Negotiations and communication are recognized as the only way to overcome the conflict. According to the pontiff, "all parties must stop the offensive, sit down at the negotiating table and discuss their positions. The parties to the conflict should not arm themselves with other countries. The Holy Spirit will find an algorithm for those who want peace, capable of each of the parties to the conflict not to consider themselves and not be defeated."

"Never in history has a military victory brought final peace, but served as the cause of new conflicts, therefore only negotiations and fair agreements for all lead to a full-fledged long-term peace. The best victory is one where all parties to the conflict feel like winners, not defeated, and only respectful negotiations can bring such a victory for all,” Pope Francis concluded.

Earlier, on the day when Orthodox Christians celebrate Forgiveness Sunday, the pope asked for forgiveness from everyone he could offend in Russia. He also suggested that Ukrainians and Russians forgive each other and begin negotiations immediately.


World Union of Old Believers - Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church
 
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Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
It is clarified that the initiative contains the thesis of equal responsibility for any conflict.
That is an invalid premise. Ukraine DID not attack russia, nor did they provoke them. Russia signed an agreement to not attack Ukraine, when they turned over all of their nuclear leftovers. They did not honor that agreement. Why would anyone expect them to honor ANY agreement?
They're honor-less liars, who bear the clear responsibility for the conflict.
Being Pope doesn't endow you with omnipotence, or apparently, even enable you to think clearly.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
That is an invalid premise. Ukraine DID not attack russia, nor did they provoke them. Russia signed an agreement to not attack Ukraine, when they turned over all of their nuclear leftovers. They did not honor that agreement. Why would anyone expect them to honor ANY agreement?
They're honor-less liars, who bear the clear responsibility for the conflict.
Being Pope doesn't endow you with omnipotence, or apparently, even enable you to think clearly.
every abuser wants to claim "both sides" are responsible...
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
That is an invalid premise. Ukraine DID not attack russia, nor did they provoke them. Russia signed an agreement to not attack Ukraine, when they turned over all of their nuclear leftovers. They did not honor that agreement. Why would anyone expect them to honor ANY agreement?
They're honor-less liars, who bear the clear responsibility for the conflict.
Being Pope doesn't endow you with omnipotence, or apparently, even enable you to think clearly.
This is through the filter of Russian media, so it might not be an accurate portrayal.
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Pope urges ceasefire in Ukraine ahead of invasion anniversary
Feb 22 (Reuters) - Pope Francis, speaking two days before the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, on Wednesday called for a ceasefire and peace negotiations, saying no victory could be "built on ruins".

Francis, who has appealed for an end to violence in Ukraine at nearly every public appearance since Russia's invasion of the country on Feb. 24, 2022, spoke at his weekly general audience at the Vatican.

"It has been a year since the start of this absurd and cruel war, a sad anniversary," he said.

"The number of dead, wounded, refugees and displaced people, the (amount of) destruction and economic and social damage speak for themselves," Francis said.

Ukraine's ambassador to the Vatican, Andrii Yurash, attended the audience along with a delegation of Ukrainian officials.

"May the Lord forgive so many crimes and so much violence. He is the God of peace. Let us remain close to the martyred Ukrainian people who continue to suffer," Francis said.

Francis has rejected Russia's assertion that its military presence in Ukraine was part of a "special operation," condemning what he has described as atrocities and the killing of civilians.

A day after major speeches on Ukraine by U.S. President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the pope said: "Let us ask ourselves: has everything possible been done to stop the war? I appeal to everyone who has authority over nations to commit themselves in a concrete way to end the conflict, to reach a ceasefire and start peace negotiations".

He added: "That which is built on ruins can never be a real victory".

A peace plan proposed by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last year called for a restoration of territorial integrity and for Russia to reaffirm it according to the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said was "not up to negotiations".

It also demanded a withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities.

Pope Francis drew up a plan for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine
Pope Francis has developed a plan for a peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine, the chairman of the World Union of Old Believers (ARC) Leonid Sevastyanov, who maintains correspondence with the pontiff, told RIA Novosti.

It is clarified that the initiative contains the thesis of equal responsibility for any conflict. The goal of the plan is proclaimed a long and just peace, the guarantee of which will be inclusiveness, respect for culture and language and cooperation for all, including Russia , Ukraine and Europe . The priorities will be the preservation of life and health of people, as well as the non-participation of foreign countries in arming the participants in the conflict. The pontiff called the negotiations, which are proposed to be held in the Vatican, an instrument for achieving peace.

"One world for all! The reason for any war is selfishness and unwillingness to hear the interlocutor, therefore, in any war, in any conflict, everyone is to blame (Dostoevsky). Reconciliation and mutual forgiveness is the main Christian virtue. The Holy See - the Vatican - is a negotiating platform for everyone. Rome is a city of peace! The goal of the negotiations is a long and just peace for all," the plan says.

Sevastyanov noted that the text was recorded from the words of Pope Francis, who assured him today.

Human life, according to the statements of the pontiff, cannot be instrumentalized. "The life and health of citizens is the main goal of the existence of the state. The protection of people's lives is the goal of any government. There is no goal for which the life and health of a person, a citizen can be sacrificed," he stressed.

One world for all without walls and borders is the guarantee of a just world. “Russia, Ukraine and Europe are part of a single inclusive world for all! Instead of war, there is cooperation and building a single fair socio-economic space. The culture, language, nationality and faith of any person must be protected and respected,” the text says.

Negotiations and communication are recognized as the only way to overcome the conflict. According to the pontiff, "all parties must stop the offensive, sit down at the negotiating table and discuss their positions. The parties to the conflict should not arm themselves with other countries. The Holy Spirit will find an algorithm for those who want peace, capable of each of the parties to the conflict not to consider themselves and not be defeated."

"Never in history has a military victory brought final peace, but served as the cause of new conflicts, therefore only negotiations and fair agreements for all lead to a full-fledged long-term peace. The best victory is one where all parties to the conflict feel like winners, not defeated, and only respectful negotiations can bring such a victory for all,” Pope Francis concluded.

Earlier, on the day when Orthodox Christians celebrate Forgiveness Sunday, the pope asked for forgiveness from everyone he could offend in Russia. He also suggested that Ukrainians and Russians forgive each other and begin negotiations immediately.


World Union of Old Believers - Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church
I'm very skeptical....js

The ROC is the kgb...the true orthodox church isn't
 

printer

Well-Known Member
That is an invalid premise. Ukraine DID not attack russia, nor did they provoke them. Russia signed an agreement to not attack Ukraine, when they turned over all of their nuclear leftovers. They did not honor that agreement. Why would anyone expect them to honor ANY agreement?
They're honor-less liars, who bear the clear responsibility for the conflict.
Being Pope doesn't endow you with omnipotence, or apparently, even enable you to think clearly.
Ukraine provoked Russia in asking to be a part of Nato.

You have to see where the 'information' is coming from. I included context at the end who the religious leader who 'says he talked to the pope' was.

"Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church"

I could not find any conformation the pop said any of this. But you would not know any difference in Russia.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Ukraine did not provoke Russia in asking to be a part of Nato.

You have to see where the 'information' is coming from. I included context at the end who the religious leader who 'says he talked to the pope' was.

"Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church"

I could not find any conformation the pop said any of this. But you would not know any difference in Russia.
FTFY...
 

BudmanTX

Well-Known Member
Ukraine provoked Russia in asking to be a part of Nato.

You have to see where the 'information' is coming from. I included context at the end who the religious leader who 'says he talked to the pope' was.

"Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church"

I could not find any conformation the pop said any of this. But you would not know any difference in Russia.
I understand appreciate the post and i understand the article,

your first line dunno bout that...

if the Holy see did say that (of which I am highly skeptical)..

I do agree with the idea, that if a peace accord is made, yeah let's do it at the Vatican

Full sovereignty of ua, and justice is served top 2 with that accord...

Putin goes to the Hague top justice
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Ukraine provoked Russia in asking to be a part of Nato.

You have to see where the 'information' is coming from. I included context at the end who the religious leader who 'says he talked to the pope' was.

"Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church"

I could not find any conformation the pop said any of this. But you would not know any difference in Russia.
I would opine that Ukraine provoked Russia by kicking out Moscow’s puppets.
 

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Pope urges ceasefire in Ukraine ahead of invasion anniversary
Feb 22 (Reuters) - Pope Francis, speaking two days before the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, on Wednesday called for a ceasefire and peace negotiations, saying no victory could be "built on ruins".

Francis, who has appealed for an end to violence in Ukraine at nearly every public appearance since Russia's invasion of the country on Feb. 24, 2022, spoke at his weekly general audience at the Vatican.

"It has been a year since the start of this absurd and cruel war, a sad anniversary," he said.

"The number of dead, wounded, refugees and displaced people, the (amount of) destruction and economic and social damage speak for themselves," Francis said.

Ukraine's ambassador to the Vatican, Andrii Yurash, attended the audience along with a delegation of Ukrainian officials.

"May the Lord forgive so many crimes and so much violence. He is the God of peace. Let us remain close to the martyred Ukrainian people who continue to suffer," Francis said.

Francis has rejected Russia's assertion that its military presence in Ukraine was part of a "special operation," condemning what he has described as atrocities and the killing of civilians.

A day after major speeches on Ukraine by U.S. President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the pope said: "Let us ask ourselves: has everything possible been done to stop the war? I appeal to everyone who has authority over nations to commit themselves in a concrete way to end the conflict, to reach a ceasefire and start peace negotiations".

He added: "That which is built on ruins can never be a real victory".

A peace plan proposed by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last year called for a restoration of territorial integrity and for Russia to reaffirm it according to the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said was "not up to negotiations".

It also demanded a withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities.

Pope Francis drew up a plan for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine
Pope Francis has developed a plan for a peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine, the chairman of the World Union of Old Believers (ARC) Leonid Sevastyanov, who maintains correspondence with the pontiff, told RIA Novosti.

It is clarified that the initiative contains the thesis of equal responsibility for any conflict. The goal of the plan is proclaimed a long and just peace, the guarantee of which will be inclusiveness, respect for culture and language and cooperation for all, including Russia , Ukraine and Europe . The priorities will be the preservation of life and health of people, as well as the non-participation of foreign countries in arming the participants in the conflict. The pontiff called the negotiations, which are proposed to be held in the Vatican, an instrument for achieving peace.

"One world for all! The reason for any war is selfishness and unwillingness to hear the interlocutor, therefore, in any war, in any conflict, everyone is to blame (Dostoevsky). Reconciliation and mutual forgiveness is the main Christian virtue. The Holy See - the Vatican - is a negotiating platform for everyone. Rome is a city of peace! The goal of the negotiations is a long and just peace for all," the plan says.

Sevastyanov noted that the text was recorded from the words of Pope Francis, who assured him today.

Human life, according to the statements of the pontiff, cannot be instrumentalized. "The life and health of citizens is the main goal of the existence of the state. The protection of people's lives is the goal of any government. There is no goal for which the life and health of a person, a citizen can be sacrificed," he stressed.

One world for all without walls and borders is the guarantee of a just world. “Russia, Ukraine and Europe are part of a single inclusive world for all! Instead of war, there is cooperation and building a single fair socio-economic space. The culture, language, nationality and faith of any person must be protected and respected,” the text says.

Negotiations and communication are recognized as the only way to overcome the conflict. According to the pontiff, "all parties must stop the offensive, sit down at the negotiating table and discuss their positions. The parties to the conflict should not arm themselves with other countries. The Holy Spirit will find an algorithm for those who want peace, capable of each of the parties to the conflict not to consider themselves and not be defeated."

"Never in history has a military victory brought final peace, but served as the cause of new conflicts, therefore only negotiations and fair agreements for all lead to a full-fledged long-term peace. The best victory is one where all parties to the conflict feel like winners, not defeated, and only respectful negotiations can bring such a victory for all,” Pope Francis concluded.

Earlier, on the day when Orthodox Christians celebrate Forgiveness Sunday, the pope asked for forgiveness from everyone he could offend in Russia. He also suggested that Ukrainians and Russians forgive each other and begin negotiations immediately.


World Union of Old Believers - Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church
His Holiness the Pope should spend a few minutes reading the Budapest Memorandum....and then STFU..
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Poland and the other eastern allies are cleaning themselves out, why not, they are part of NATO and can do without for a spell while their equipment destroys any future Russian threat. That's why I figure Canada should give all of our leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine and start fresh with new models, the Russians won't be attacking us anytime soon and if they use nukes in North America, it's Uncle Sam's business too.

It looks like they are throwing all the armor they can into Ukraine and armor is used to take territory. I figure this will end up as a massive blitzkrieg attack on the Russians this spring, only this time they will be ready to exploit any sudden successes fully. The Russians have so many mobiks in Ukraine now that are so poorly led, that such an attack could net a hundred thousand or more mobik prisoners this spring. Once panic sets in among low moral troops the fronts can collapse pretty fast and whole battalions could surrender en mass. Once the Ukrainians are rolling, it might not be as much of a slog as many believe and could net a lot of ammo and equipment, again.

 
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go go kid

Well-Known Member
putin basicly wants to get as much of the old USSR back b4 he dies of cancer, he wants it to be his crowning glory b4 the cancer kills him. i dont see that ukraine started any of this or instagated anything, putin was looking for a fight no matter what. hes a hasbeen murderer of inosent people. i cant see it that the ukraine had anything to do with it at all
 

printer

Well-Known Member
I understand appreciate the post and i understand the article,

your first line dunno bout that...

if the Holy see did say that (of which I am highly skeptical)..

I do agree with the idea, that if a peace accord is made, yeah let's do it at the Vatican

Full sovereignty of ua, and justice is served top 2 with that accord...

Putin goes to the Hague top justice
I would opine that Ukraine provoked Russia by kicking out Moscow’s puppets.
I did an oops, the line about Nato provoking Russia was suppose to be in quotes. Basically Putin wants the previous USSR countries to be under russian control. Convinced himself that it was 'The West' that overthrew the "legally" elected government in Ukraine (never mind Russia manufactured the win). The West telling the people they can decide where they want their country to go. Right next door to Russia. What will the Russian people think?
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member

Let's talk about China's peace plan and Russia's reaction....
" i dont know that ukraine is willing to acept those "current realities"......i would be horribly disappointed in them if they did.
This entire maneuver, all the aid, all the weapons, all the deaths, war crimes and torture swept under the rug of politics?
russia needs to have its fangs jerked out of it's foul mouth, they CANNOT be rewarded for this heinous criminal behavior.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
Pope urges ceasefire in Ukraine ahead of invasion anniversary
Feb 22 (Reuters) - Pope Francis, speaking two days before the first anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, on Wednesday called for a ceasefire and peace negotiations, saying no victory could be "built on ruins".

Francis, who has appealed for an end to violence in Ukraine at nearly every public appearance since Russia's invasion of the country on Feb. 24, 2022, spoke at his weekly general audience at the Vatican.

"It has been a year since the start of this absurd and cruel war, a sad anniversary," he said.

"The number of dead, wounded, refugees and displaced people, the (amount of) destruction and economic and social damage speak for themselves," Francis said.

Ukraine's ambassador to the Vatican, Andrii Yurash, attended the audience along with a delegation of Ukrainian officials.

"May the Lord forgive so many crimes and so much violence. He is the God of peace. Let us remain close to the martyred Ukrainian people who continue to suffer," Francis said.

Francis has rejected Russia's assertion that its military presence in Ukraine was part of a "special operation," condemning what he has described as atrocities and the killing of civilians.

A day after major speeches on Ukraine by U.S. President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the pope said: "Let us ask ourselves: has everything possible been done to stop the war? I appeal to everyone who has authority over nations to commit themselves in a concrete way to end the conflict, to reach a ceasefire and start peace negotiations".

He added: "That which is built on ruins can never be a real victory".

A peace plan proposed by Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskiy last year called for a restoration of territorial integrity and for Russia to reaffirm it according to the U.N. Charter, which Zelenskiy said was "not up to negotiations".

It also demanded a withdrawal of Russian troops and cessation of hostilities.

Pope Francis drew up a plan for a peaceful settlement in Ukraine
Pope Francis has developed a plan for a peaceful settlement of the situation in Ukraine, the chairman of the World Union of Old Believers (ARC) Leonid Sevastyanov, who maintains correspondence with the pontiff, told RIA Novosti.

It is clarified that the initiative contains the thesis of equal responsibility for any conflict. The goal of the plan is proclaimed a long and just peace, the guarantee of which will be inclusiveness, respect for culture and language and cooperation for all, including Russia , Ukraine and Europe . The priorities will be the preservation of life and health of people, as well as the non-participation of foreign countries in arming the participants in the conflict. The pontiff called the negotiations, which are proposed to be held in the Vatican, an instrument for achieving peace.

"One world for all! The reason for any war is selfishness and unwillingness to hear the interlocutor, therefore, in any war, in any conflict, everyone is to blame (Dostoevsky). Reconciliation and mutual forgiveness is the main Christian virtue. The Holy See - the Vatican - is a negotiating platform for everyone. Rome is a city of peace! The goal of the negotiations is a long and just peace for all," the plan says.

Sevastyanov noted that the text was recorded from the words of Pope Francis, who assured him today.

Human life, according to the statements of the pontiff, cannot be instrumentalized. "The life and health of citizens is the main goal of the existence of the state. The protection of people's lives is the goal of any government. There is no goal for which the life and health of a person, a citizen can be sacrificed," he stressed.

One world for all without walls and borders is the guarantee of a just world. “Russia, Ukraine and Europe are part of a single inclusive world for all! Instead of war, there is cooperation and building a single fair socio-economic space. The culture, language, nationality and faith of any person must be protected and respected,” the text says.

Negotiations and communication are recognized as the only way to overcome the conflict. According to the pontiff, "all parties must stop the offensive, sit down at the negotiating table and discuss their positions. The parties to the conflict should not arm themselves with other countries. The Holy Spirit will find an algorithm for those who want peace, capable of each of the parties to the conflict not to consider themselves and not be defeated."

"Never in history has a military victory brought final peace, but served as the cause of new conflicts, therefore only negotiations and fair agreements for all lead to a full-fledged long-term peace. The best victory is one where all parties to the conflict feel like winners, not defeated, and only respectful negotiations can bring such a victory for all,” Pope Francis concluded.

Earlier, on the day when Orthodox Christians celebrate Forgiveness Sunday, the pope asked for forgiveness from everyone he could offend in Russia. He also suggested that Ukrainians and Russians forgive each other and begin negotiations immediately.


World Union of Old Believers - Old Believers or Old Ritualists are Eastern Orthodox Christians who maintain the liturgical and ritual practices of the Russian Orthodox Church
One man started this..one man. Until that one person is gone, they will never achieve peace.
 
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