Why are so many growers against gun ownership?

abe23 said:

but you have to draw a line somewhere.

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abe23 said:

I like guns as much as the next guy, but you have to draw a line somewhere. A round big enough to rip off someone's torso at 2 miles is where I draw mine.

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Carthoris said:

I have noticed that many people I would consider to be good people, and who smoke, are against guns. The reasoning seems to be "Guns kill people", "Guns like that aren't for self protection", or "You don't need a gun"

I never understood this reasoning. Isn't this the same reasoning that keeps Marijuana illegal for the most part throughout the world? Why don't people realize that if you don't stand up for others rights even when you don't agree with them, that they won't stand up for yours?

Outlawing marijuana was done for society, and for morality's sake. All smokers and growers bemoan that, but then they will turn around and say that guns should be illegal for morality and society. I do not understand how people who understand being oppressed can visit this upon someone else.

AK47s, M16s are legal and they are very easy to purchase. Machine Guns can be purchased Legally, Rocket Launchers, Tanks, I can buy a friggin war ship if I had the money.

Questions to ask yourself:

1) When was the last time you or someone you know was robbed with an AK47?
2) How many people legitimately get assaulted with a rifle many of you would consider evil?
3) People don't need 5 ton hummers, 8 bedroom houses, swimming pools, 2 computers, beef, antiques, collectibles, 400 dollar ph meters, or books - do you have any of these things? Do they make you happy?
4) Why is having a gun any different than owning a 5 ton hummer which I could drive through a parade and kill literally a thousand people in a few minutes?

It just seems that so many people are who love the Marijuana plant like I do, and defend it as harmless, as making people happy, or some other reasoning refuse to believe that a gun might do that for someone else? Blowing off 500 rounds of ammo at a gun range is right up there with riding a jetski/atv or skydiving.

I am ranting, yes, but I also ask you to honestly question yourself as to your motives.

One of the biggest reasons to be pro-gun is this: The governments of the world killed 170 million unarmed people in the last 100 years. Mass murders of unarmed people. Without a government you can trust to protect you from themselves, who do you turn to? Sure, I am not capable of going Rambo and taking out the US military if they decide to turn America into a Nazi concentration camp. I might feel better knowing that there are 200 million privately owned guns in America to back me up if the government turned to that way. (again should I say - we 'interned' the japanese and they lost their lives and had nothing when they came out)

Another reason is that its the LAW: The constitution pointedly says the people of the United States of America have the right to be armed. They went out of their way to make sure it was the people and not the government. If you understand the period, and what they were getting at they were protecting themselves FROM their own government even then. They knew that over time the government would overstep its bounds and oppress the people. People with guns seldom take orders from people without guns. If you don't believe in the founding principles set forth, then you don't believe in free speech, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness either. All the rights granted to every human in the constitution are entangled. You cannot pick the rights you want to invoke and ban the ones that you don't like so much. It is an all or nothing thing, or the very fabric of our society will fail.

Some quotes from our founding fathers:

"A free people ought to be armed."
"Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth."
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
-George Washington

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
"On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
- Thomas Jefferson

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed, unlike the people of other countries, whose leaders are afraid to trust them with arms."
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry

"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samual Adams

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story

"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty .... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
- Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts

" ... for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion."
- Alexander Hamilton

Does it sound like any of those people thought you should restrict gun ownership to the population? Or did it sound like they modeled our entire government to protect us from the government?

Thank you for reading,

Carthoris

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Mindmelted said:

Hell a .22 can cause lethal harm....

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abe23 said:

So why would you need a .50 then....? Oh right, tyranny...

I'm not even speaking as to whether the damn things should be legal or not (they probably should...), but more to why anyone in their right mind would feel the need to own one. Unless you're hunting whales, you really don't need something like that.

And I bring this up everytime the gun conversation comes up, but is there anywhere you guys draw the line? Heavy artillery? Mortars? Rocket launchers...? I understand the slippery slope argument about gun control....does that mean there should be no restrictions whatsoever.

I like guns too, but I don't understand some of the obsessive gun nuts out there. Meh....as long as you keep your anti-tank rifles away from me I don't really care.

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abe23 said:

Oh, and also, for the OP:

Just because people don't like guns or don't want to own any, doesn't mean they want them to be illegal. Big distinction. I don't really approve of gambling, but that doesn't mean I think it should be illegal.

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abe23 said:

Well, I've also also heard retards on the other end of the spectrum telling me they want laws requiring me to own a firearm. And I would give them the same answer you should give the gun control nuts: go mind your own fucking business.

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abe23 said:

Well, I've also also heard retards on the other end of the spectrum telling me they want laws requiring me to own a firearm. And I would give them the same answer you should give the gun control nuts: go mind your own fucking business.

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Johnnyorganic said:

That's insulting to legitimate retards.

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cmt1984 said:

i have 8 guns and plan on owning more, i love em, i guess you can say i collect them. i dont hunt at all, i just like target shooting and i have my shotgun for home protection. i see the anti-gun people in the same light as i see the anti-marijuana people. just my opinion.

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Carthoris said:

Large governments are the enemy of the people. There is no worse criminal than our own governments.

Even the US handed out condoms to troops after WW2 and hung posters that said things like "Show those German whores whats up and wear a condom" not in those exact words but thats it. The government is much more brutal and evil than individual people.

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