Why Should I Vote for Obama?

budlover13 said:
Maybe people should educate themselves a little more. You realize that somewhere in the field of 90% of those who die fighting cancer are killed by the treatment rather than the disease right?
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I don't believe this is an accurate figure. Many who succumb to cancer give up their treatment in the last days and it is indeed the cancer that kills them.
 
Illegal Smile said:
Do you think if the public really understood that half of it is for people in the last year of life, they would support the costs?
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the statistic is difficult to understand. Do we KNOW that those who are in their last year of life are in their last year of life? I submit that many times we do not and only discover the fact after the patient is dead. Furthermore, many times it is not the patient but the family who mandates this extraordinary care. Most who are against the health care law claim that there is too much to do about end of life counseling and care, that rationing and "death panels" are pervasive yet these are the same people who take issue with the cost of care during the last year of life.
 
canndo said:
the statistic is difficult to understand. Do we KNOW that those who are in their last year of life are in their last year of life? I submit that many times we do not and only discover the fact after the patient is dead. Furthermore, many times it is not the patient but the family who mandates this extraordinary care. Most who are against the health care law claim that there is too much to do about end of life counseling and care, that rationing and "death panels" are pervasive yet these are the same people who take issue with the cost of care during the last year of life.
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You're right, it is a paradox and there is plenty of hypocrisy to go around. But that still doesn't answer: What should we do about that? and: What will voters tolerate?

I don't think there is support for public money paying for heart transplants and heroic measures for the aged who can't afford it. I'm not even sure any society can bear that in a sustainable way.
 
Illegal Smile said:
Do you think if the public really understood that half of it is for people in the last year of life, they would support the costs?
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Yeah, just kill grandma...

I don't think there is support for public money paying for heart transplants and heroic measures for the aged who can't afford it. I'm not even sure any society can bear that in a sustainable way.
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France has offered that for decades. It didn't sink their economy. What sinks the economy is not millions getting pennies, but dozens getting trillions.
 
The cost of medical care for millions of people is a joke when compared to the lifestyles of the rich. $5000 bottles of wine every night at dinner, solid gold faucets, parking garages full of expensive sports cars, private jets burning thousands of gallons of fuel every few days, mansions with hundreds or thousands of staffers paid full time to pamper their fat behinds...
 
purklize said:
The cost of medical care for millions of people is a joke when compared to the lifestyles of the rich. $5000 bottles of wine every night at dinner, solid gold faucets, parking garages full of expensive sports cars, private jets burning thousands of gallons of fuel every few days, mansions with hundreds or thousands of staffers paid full time to pamper their fat behinds...
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And those people that bottle and sell the $5000 bottles of wine, the people that make the faucets and sports cars and private jets and who refine the fuel and builds the mansions and clean and maintain them...

Might as well put more people out of work to pay for grandma's medical care. I am sure the economy wont mind...

The more money you take from the rich the less there is for investment, and that means jobs. So sacrifice the young peoples jobs for grandma's healthcare and sleep well at night telling the rich they simply need to pay more because for some reason there are no jobs and it is their fault.

How much do you think you deserve from the rich? Do you deserve everything they make or just most of it?
 
deprave said:
that dieing people need medical help?
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The fucked up truth is that they don't. At least not the type of medical "help" we give them.

We aren't really helping people by sustaining their live by machines when they have no hope of recovery, and in many if not most cases, no hope of even regaining consciousness.

The way we treat people at the end of their lives has nothing to do with patient care, and everything to do with hospitals making more money.

If someone has the chance of walking out of that hospital bed some day, then by all means, lets give them care on the chance they can get better. But keeping someone sustained on machines when they are terminally ill and unconscious, isn't health care, it's hospital money farming. And when you buy medical insurance a lot of what you pay for is exactly that. It's part of the reason we pay more than double what everyone else in the world is paying for insurance.

TBH what we need are death panels. Or some sort of law that pulls the plug on someone when they have no hope of recovery.

We are helping exactly no one by doing this.
 
Dan Kone said:
The fucked up truth is that they don't. At least not the type of medical "help" we give them.

We aren't really helping people by sustaining their live by machines when they have no hope of recovery, and in many if not most cases, no hope of even regaining consciousness.

The way we treat people at the end of their lives has nothing to do with patient care, and everything to do with hospitals making more money.

If someone has the chance of walking out of that hospital bed some day, then by all means, lets give them care on the chance they can get better. But keeping someone sustained on machines when they are terminally ill and unconscious, isn't health care, it's hospital money farming. And when you buy medical insurance a lot of what you pay for is exactly that. It's part of the reason we pay more than double what everyone else in the world is paying for insurance.

TBH what we need are death panels. Or some sort of law that pulls the plug on someone when they have no hope of recovery.

We are helping exactly no one by doing this.
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How bad would you freak out with quotes of parts of that???

Lets force death panels on rich people too!!! I mean, they cant live when other people die, it just isnt fair!
 
purklize said:
Yeah, just kill grandma...
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In some cases, we should kill grandma. I realize that's extremely unpopular, but that unpopularity is not based on rational thought. No one wants to pull the plug on their own grandma, but you're sustaining her at society's expense. Some people aren't going to be able to afford health insurance and people with curable conditions are going to die young because no one wants to pull the plug on grandma.

It's incredibly selfish if you really think about it.

So yes, lets kill grandma.
 
NLXSK1 said:
How bad would you freak out with quotes of parts of that???
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If you want to continue to prove me right about you, go right ahead.

Lets force death panels on rich people too!!! I mean, they cant live when other people die, it just isnt fair!
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Yes, that's right. Let's force death panels on everyone. When someone sustains their life payed for by health insurance when they have no hope of recovery, we all pay for it when we buy health insurance. It makes health insurance unaffordable.

If wealthy people want to pay out of pocket to do this, that's fine by me. But if they are using insurance to do this, there should be a point where we pull the plug.
 

  • there should be a point where we pull the plug.​


    ​
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And you believe a government bureaucrat who is un-elected and unaccountable should make this decision about your grandmother?

You sure as hell have a lot more faith in government than I do.
 
NLXSK1 said:
And you believe a government bureaucrat who is un-elected and unaccountable should make this decision about your grandmother?

You sure as hell have a lot more faith in government than I do.
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The decision is only about whether taxpayers should pay for granny's care. There's nothing stopping you from funding granny's care on your own, but the system has to draw a line somewhere in the name of cost control. I mean, right now grandma would die if she or her family couldn't afford care... How is this any different? Granny dies either way.
 
Dan Kone said:
In some cases, we should kill grandma. I realize that's extremely unpopular, but that unpopularity is not based on rational thought. No one wants to pull the plug on their own grandma, but you're sustaining her at society's expense. Some people aren't going to be able to afford health insurance and people with curable conditions are going to die young because no one wants to pull the plug on grandma.

It's incredibly selfish if you really think about it.

So yes, lets kill grandma.
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You heartless, liberal :-)

I pretty much agree, though. I guess that makes me a heartless libertarian.
 
To give a serious answer to the question of "why should you vote for Obama":

He will continue with MM crack down thereby propping up the price of Cannabis. This benefits all participants of the war on drugs, except the ordinary users, of course. It's a total win for our NorCal growers and everybody else who floated the, "evil corporations will take over the Cannabis business if Prop 19 passes" jibberish.
 
Illegal Smile said:
Why should I vote based on anything other than whether or not I am better off than I was four years ago?
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I like the way you are looking at candidates critically. My approach is normally to oppose the GOP. I'm a hopeless liberal. I want corporations to follow the law, not lead it. I want progressive agendas and personal liberty for everyone including gays and racial minorities. I want wars to end and weed to be legal. Definitely what most conservatives would call head-up-my-ass. I was overjoyed that the Iraq war ended. I applaud that gay people can serve openly. As an ex-infantryman, I would not care if the guy I shared a fox-hole with was gay. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

You may not be able to tell that things are better for you, but the man took office with two wars going on, the biggest deficit in history (which admittedly he increased). Things should CERTAINLY have gotten worse for all of us. Awesome defense I know, saying things would have sucked way worse. It seems you want facts and not opinions, so explicate the criticism that my post receives with that eye and see how much of it is BS. Most of the anti-Obama rhetoric I hear is devoid of facts. It only appeals to conservative passions, not objective logic. Some Obama complaints are quite valid though, NDAA comes to mind.

Despite that you have repeatedly said you think it is ludicrous to even care about cannabis prohibition as an issue in a US presidential election, there is also much to consider in that debate. This IS a grower's forum anyway right? When I say 'we' or 'us' referring a group with political interests that includes me, I am referring to growers. Obama has done more for us than anyone has since the drug war started. I know I will have to defend that statement and I am prepared to. It is undeniable that the recent progress in this fight did not begin while the previous president was in office. The recent crackdown on dispensaries is seen as Obama's betrayal by some but I am also prepared to defend Obama there if you are interested. It is legal to grow cannabis plants in about a third of the country.

Obama is not my first choice at all. If the race narrows down to Obama vs Romney, I will vote against Romney. Obama gives us some personal liberty with one hand while with the other hand he signs NDAA and that scares me but it is only logical I would be even more afraid if he would have signed NDAA after limiting our liberty. Don't be so hasty to say Obama = Romney.
 
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