Why Should I Vote for Obama?

10,000 people applied for a janitorial position in my town... jobs don't exist. In Detroit real unemployment is over 50%... the reason there are so many unemployed people is not because they don't want jobs. Unemployed by definition means "seeking work."

purklize said:

10,000 people applied for a janitorial position in my town... jobs don't exist. In Detroit real unemployment is over 50%... the reason there are so many unemployed people is not because they don't want jobs. Unemployed by definition means "seeking work."

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Seeking work by definition means "Actively out applying for work"

I call BULLSHIT on that number!

Small section of Detroit CL!
Title Examiner or Abstracter - [SIZE=-1] (Farmington Hills)[/SIZE] admin/office
:: ECS Tuning :: MINI Cooper Product Specialist - [SIZE=-1] (Wadsworth,OH)[/SIZE] sales
Seeking Qualified Process Engineer - [SIZE=-1] (Madison Heights, MI)[/SIZE] manufacturing
Class A CDL Drivers! Opportunities available! - [SIZE=-1] (South of Flint-Muskegon)[/SIZE] transportation
Office work in a Dental Lab - [SIZE=-1] (Rochester Hills)[/SIZE] general labor
now hiring sales reps - customer service
bilingual secretary - [SIZE=-1] (southwest detroit)[/SIZE] admin/office
Direct Care Worker - [SIZE=-1] (Romeo)[/SIZE] healthcare
Selling Branch Manager - [SIZE=-1] (Royal Oak, MI)[/SIZE] human resource
Nails tech and Massage Therapist needed - [SIZE=-1] (downtown ferndale)[/SIZE] salon/spa/fitness
Filing / Billing Clerk - [SIZE=-1] (Livonia, MI)[/SIZE] legal/paralegal
Dick Huvaere's Richmond Chrysler Dodge Jeep-Job Fair! - [SIZE=-1] (Richmond,MI)[/SIZE] customer service
Seeking CNC Machinists - Mazak Experience - [SIZE=-1] (Troy, MI)[/SIZE] manufacturing
5 Axis CNC Mill Programmer Needed - [SIZE=-1] (Madison Heights, MI)[/SIZE] manufacturing
CNC Mazak Lathe Programmer - [SIZE=-1] (Madison Heights, MI)[/SIZE] manufacturing
Are You A Top Notch Buyer Specialist? - [SIZE=-1] (Oakland County Area)[/SIZE] img real estate
APPOINTMENT SCHEDULER - admin/office
Part Time Receptionist Wanted - [SIZE=-1] (Plymouth, MI)[/SIZE] admin/office
Driver Laborer - [SIZE=-1] (SE Michigan)[/SIZE] general labor
Auto Mechanic Needed ASAP - Great Pay - [SIZE=-1] (Warren, MI)[/SIZE] skilled trades/artisan
Automation Design Enginer - [SIZE=-1] (Royal Oak, MI)[/SIZE] architect/engineer/CAD
Dick Huvaere's Richmond Chrysler Dodge-Job Fair! - [SIZE=-1] (Richmond,mi)[/SIZE] admin/office
Furniture Installer / Supervisor - [SIZE=-1] (Metro Detroit)[/SIZE] skilled trades/artisan
Flexible Nanny/Babysitter Needed - [SIZE=-1] (Clinton Twp)[/SIZE] et cetera
Sr. Project Manager - [SIZE=-1] (Detroit, MI)[/SIZE] software/QA/DBA/etc
Business to Business Sales Associate - Fortune 500 - [SIZE=-1] (Flushing and surrounding area)[/SIZE] sales
PATTERN MAKERS & MOLD MAKERS - [SIZE=-1] (32 Mile)[/SIZE] manufacturing
Direct Care Worker - [SIZE=-1] (Chesterfield)[/SIZE] healthcare
Canvassing - [SIZE=-1] (madison heights)[/SIZE] general labor
Translator (Japanese-English) - [SIZE=-1] (Plymouth, MI)[/SIZE] admin/office

Try applying for those jobs. You'll see.

Ever read the Grapes of Wrath? Farms in California put out ads for jobs, offering good pay, saying they were short on labor. The objective was to get 100 people applying for every open job, so they could drive wages down to a pound of flour for a day's work.

purklize said:

10,000 people applied for a janitorial position in my town... jobs don't exist. In Detroit real unemployment is over 50%... the reason there are so many unemployed people is not because they don't want jobs. Unemployed by definition means "seeking work."

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on the real if you live in Detroit the best thing to do is MOVE

I see jobs going unfilled and I hear that the main reason the applicants aren't hired is that they can't pass a drug test.

purklize said:

Wrong, you can look at statistical data and find cases where people had a treatable condition and were unable to receive that treatment because it was unaffordable due to lack of insurance coverage, and then died as a result (this doesn't include those with insurance whose provider refused to pay for life saving treatment, falsely declaring it "experimental" even if it's standard procedure and been around for decades, this is very common).



It's more than all illegal drug deaths, it's several times that of all deaths caused by asthma, it's comparable to traffic deaths...

You have to consider that this is a "per year" thing. 4 million people are born per year here in the US. That comes to slightly less than a one out of 100 chance of dying from a treatable illness because you had no health insurance to cover the cost of treatment. Multiply that by 80 years of life and you have high odds of dying a preventable death. I have personally known cancer patients that could not get treatment anywhere and died without ever getting chemo, surgery, or even painkillers.

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I love watching the mental gymnastics it requires to refute facts.

No one dies from not having insurance, you die from the disease, you cannot prove me wrong because to do so would be to admit that then having insurance would mean you can never die. Don't worry about using logic in these circumstances, use BS and hope it sticks right?

For example: you are a former president of the USA, you have the best insurance and access to the greatest doctors in the world, does that mean you will not die from inoperable brain cancer? Lets say they found it really really early too, will having the insurance make any difference in life expectancy? No it will not, because it isn't the insurance that gives life nor takes life, it is the disease or lack of it.

Statistical prevalence of 27,000 people per year.

Number of accidental falls that result in death/ per year in USA: 23,000
Number of motor vehicle traffic deaths per year in USA: 43,000
Number of unintentional poisoning deaths per year in the USA: 30,000
Number of total unintentional deaths in USA per year: 124,000
Number of suicides per year in USA: 65,000
Number of accidental deaths from all sources per year in USA: 235,000
Deaths attributed to AIDS per year in USA: 21,000 ( how many had insurance?)
Deaths attributed to Alzheimers per year in USA: 146,000
Deaths by Homicide in USA per year: 32,000


http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr59/nvsr59_08.pdf

Your bullshit was refuted and debunked in several different threads. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. You're playing a game of semantics and omissions. Lack of insurance prevents people from getting the treatment they need. Either due to preexisting conditions or not having the money to afford insurance. So you can stop with the half-truths and semantic twists.

Carne Seca said:

Your bullshit was refuted and debunked in several different threads. Saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. You're playing a game of semantics and omissions. Lack of insurance prevents people from getting the treatment they need. Either due to preexisting conditions or not having the money to afford insurance. So you can stop with the half-truths and semantic twists.

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Why? Because you say so? Besides it may have been refuted but by no means was debunked.

Lack of insurance MIGHT preclude treatment, but the VAST MAJORITY of folks who seek medical care receive it regardless of insurance coverage. This is undeniable, irrefutable fact.

NoDrama said:

Why? Because you say so? Besides it may have been refuted but by no means was debunked.

Lack of insurance MIGHT preclude treatment, but the VAST MAJORITY of folks who seek medical care receive it regardless of insurance coverage. This is undeniable, irrefutable fact.

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Yes they do, like Ron Paul's (sorry UB) campaign manager. Because RP was too much of an asshole to supply healthcare to his campaign staff. His campaign manager became ill, held off (due to lack of insurance) getting treated until it was too late. What about the people in AZ that died because the governor stopped their transplant operations under medicare/medicaid. They couldn't afford insurance and were depending on medicare/medicaid. They died. Undeniable, irrefutable fact.

Carne Seca said:

Yes they do, like Ron Paul's (sorry UB) campaign manager. Because RP was too much of an asshole to supply healthcare to his campaign staff. His campaign manager became ill, held off (due to lack of insurance) getting treated until it was too late. What about the people in AZ that died because the governor stopped their transplant operations under medicare/medicaid. They couldn't afford insurance and were depending on medicare/medicaid. They died. Undeniable, irrefutable fact.

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You are just assuming he didn't go in at the first cough, I am assuming he went in right away, how else do you get a half million dollar bill unless you were receiving care?

You do know that tens of thousands of transplant patients die per year that have insurance right?

NoDrama said:

You are just assuming he didn't go in at the first cough, I am assuming he went in right away, how else do you get a half million dollar bill unless you were receiving care?

You do know that tens of thousands of transplant patients die per year that have insurance right?

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You are so full of shit. First of all, there are around 1,000 transplants per year. 18 die per day waiting for the operation either due to insurance issues (many transplant patients have to sue their insurance company) or waiting on an organ. That works out to 6,500. That's a far cry from "tens of thousands". Second of all, RP's manager (according to friends and family) waited to go in because he thought it was the flu or a cold and was using over the counter remedies. He didn't go in until his condition was critical.

Lack of insurance MIGHT preclude treatment, but the VAST MAJORITY of folks who seek medical care receive it regardless of insurance coverage. This is undeniable, irrefutable fact.

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Wrong, it is almost impossible to get dental care, and if you don't have insurance, chemo is totally unaffordable. It's so expensive that even generous doctors can't afford to give it out for free without sinking their practice. I saw someone with cervical cancer go from practice to practice, trying to get treatment. And yes, she had a job. She worked full time at Salvation Army but was paid minimum wage and had no health benefits. At minimum wage you would have to work full time for 50 years, literally, to afford a single chemo treatment. She eventually was fired for repeatedly vomiting on the job. She then went homeless. And then, at 21 years of age, she died...

You're playing games with semantics with people dying from lack of insurance.

I can play that game too. If I shoot you in the head, I didn't kill you. You died from blood loss. It's your fault you didn't clot up fast enough.

on the real if you live in Detroit the best thing to do is MOVE

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Everyone there wants to, but they can't sell their homes. The housing market is 100% dead, houses are selling for $1. Hard to move if you're going to lose what you spent your whole life working for, hundreds of thousands of dollars in mortgage payments...

I see jobs going unfilled and I hear that the main reason the applicants aren't hired is that they can't pass a drug test.

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Says the mj grower on a mj forum...

purklize said:

Whatever you do, don't vote for Romney. He's a greedy, calculating, ruthless fuck with absolutely zero tolerance for mj, or medical mj.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibZf7G3wjs

Watch how he treated a patient with a serious degenerative disease treatable only by mj.

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Just another ignorant fuck!

NoDrama said:

Why? Because you say so? Besides it may have been refuted but by no means was debunked.

Lack of insurance MIGHT preclude treatment, but the VAST MAJORITY of folks who seek medical care receive it regardless of insurance coverage. This is undeniable, irrefutable fact.

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Your logic has been refuted and debunked NoDrama. What you are claiming is akin to saying that no one dies from gunshot wounds because people only die from organ failure or loss of blood. Further, you claim that the vast majority of those who seek medical care receive it - but that does not include ongoing care for cronic conditions. It also does not include preventative care. Someone who cannot afford a colonoscopy will not get one from an ER. If that person contracts colon cancer a hospital will likely treat him after he has stage 3 or stage 4 and exhibits overt signs of his disease - he will almost certainly die if his detectable and treatable cancer has reached this extent.

mame said:

what happens when an uninsured person breaks their leg and they are unable to pay their bill? Who foots the bill? Dont you get it? That uninsured guy got off scott free and taxpayers footed the bill. So under that scenario the uninsured guy is skirting personal responsibility and adversely effecting others. Under Obamacare, even that poor guy is covered and so you're actually only forcing that poor guy to be held accountable. It makes it so everyone is effected when joe schmoe breaks his leg - including joe schmoe. So if that's you're argument, it's a weak one IMO.

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What happens when the guy who doesn't want or need insurance is forced to pay for it at the point of the government's gun and Nothing happens to him and no medical ailments afflict him? You have now forcibly stolen from him and forced him to purchase a product he didn't want and that now has been proven to be something he didn't need. The money is not returned to him, so it is outright theft. So, if that's your argument, it's a weak one, IMO.

We are all mortal beings. We will all need health care at some point in our lives. We will all suffer a series of increasingly serious illnesses, followed by a fatal one. The idea that some "don't need" health care is absurd.

Bottom Line is Health Insurance should be non-profit, setup multiple "group policies" based on region. If you travel then you can opt for an extended plan. Cut out the middle men "investors, board members, adjusters, paper pushers, phone nurses, ect". Everyone who pays into the "group policy" isn't always going to get sick at the same time therefore say 15million people are in the "New England Policy", looking at actual medical cost (Current cost minus Billions paid to investors that don't care about healthcare but want huge bonuses and a greater bottom line than the previous year.) divide by the number of people in the group policy and problem solved. The population currently is putting a strain on the system, Imagine the growth over the next 50 years? It's the only way to fix this shit.

Carne Seca said:

You are so full of shit. First of all, there are around 1,000 transplants per year. 18 die per day waiting for the operation either due to insurance issues (many transplant patients have to sue their insurance company) or waiting on an organ. That works out to 6,500. That's a far cry from "tens of thousands". Second of all, RP's manager (according to friends and family) waited to go in because he thought it was the flu or a cold and was using over the counter remedies. He didn't go in until his condition was critical.

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Thanks for admitting that the vast majority of people who die in need of a transplant don't do so because they can't afford it, but because there just aren't enough other people dying to give them the organ. You are a smart one to give us the statistics that point out of the 7500 transplants needed per year, 6500 die because they don't get it. That isn't an insurance issue.

Do you go to the doctor every time you get the flu or a cold? How many people do? I have had pneumonia twice, once i didn't go to the doctor at all, had good insurance. got better anyway.

canndo said:

Your logic has been refuted and debunked NoDrama. What you are claiming is akin to saying that no one dies from gunshot wounds because people only die from organ failure or loss of blood. Further, you claim that the vast majority of those who seek medical care receive it - but that does not include ongoing care for cronic conditions. It also does not include preventative care. Someone who cannot afford a colonoscopy will not get one from an ER. If that person contracts colon cancer a hospital will likely treat him after he has stage 3 or stage 4 and exhibits overt signs of his disease - he will almost certainly die if his detectable and treatable cancer has reached this extent.

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Hardly! Saying insurance does the same damage as a bullet is plain stupid. not having insurance won't ventilate your flesh. I don't know how you think it could. I agree that having insurance will ensure you get care, but not having insurance does not cause death.

You sir, are a moron. Not an attack. Just an honest assessment.